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Dynamic Pricing requests

Mark Barnes

I've just added some resources to the Metadata corrections proposals wiki page. It's great to see that Hayley from Logos has been keeping track of that page, and actioning many of the proposals.

We could do with something similar for bundles missing dynamic pricing. I know we can create a single thread, but requests can get buried under lots of discussion. Or we could create a new thread everything we notice a problem, but they're likely to get missed. A wiki page might be the answer.

Of course this will only work if a Logos staff member wants to take responsibility for it, and agrees that this is a good way of going about it. What about it Logos?

(And for the record, here's what I'd like to add to it.)

Missing dynamic pricing:

Peter A. Steveson Commentary Collection (5 vols.) — now fixed!
Northwest Semitic Collection (7 vols.) — now fixed!
Walk! Messianic Jewish Devotional Commentary Collection (5 vols.) — now fixed!

Broken dynamic pricing:

Believers Church Bible Commentary (26 vols.). After purchasing the John commentary, my dynamic pricing price didn't change, and remains at $49.95 for one volume.

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Comments

mike

For Academic users, discount + dynamic prices are always messed up.

Say, Ariel Ministries Messianic Collection (11 vols.) price for academic is $250. But later I bought Israelology: The Missing Link in Systematic Theology (that's part of Ariel Ministry). And the price still hasn't change. Still $250.

Same with The Northwestern Publishing House Electronic Library: Collection One (100 vols.)

I own/bought part of this, and no dynamic price, still showing academic price.

Is this the intended plan? Because it is very discouraging buying more resources.

Rosie Perera

Yes, I like that idea, Mark. I hope Logos/Faithlife likes it too and someone takes responsibility for checking it

Mark Barnes

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/681781#Comment_681781

Is this the intended plan?

It is intended. You can't get academic discount for dynamically priced products. For that reason your dynamic price can sometimes be higher than your academic price. You're shown the lowest of the two prices.

SineNomine

Of course this will only work if a Logos staff member wants to take responsibility for it, and agrees that this is a good way of going about it. What about it Logos?

If we build it...?

I think that anything done to make it easier for Faithlife to fix the Dynamic Pricing problem(s)* and to make it more obvious will also increase the chance of something being done about this.

*Depends on how you look at it.

Deacon Steve

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/681915#Comment_681915

Is this the intended plan?

It is intended. You can't get academic discount for dynamically priced products. For that reason your dynamic price can sometimes be higher than your academic price. You're shown the lowest of the two prices.

I did not realize it worked that way. That's helpful to know.

Thanks.

abondservant

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/681781#Comment_681781

For Academic users, discount + dynamic prices are always messed up.

Say, Ariel Ministries Messianic Collection (11 vols.) price for academic is $250. But later I bought Israelology: The Missing Link in Systematic Theology (that's part of Ariel Ministry). And the price still hasn't change. Still $250.

Same with The Northwestern Publishing House Electronic Library: Collection One (100 vols.)

I own/bought part of this, and no dynamic price, still showing academic price.

Is this the intended plan? Because it is very discouraging buying more resources.

Yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes.

Tabletalk is another one. I've bought 60 individual tabletalks at 2$ each. The price for tabletalk is still I think the same (EDIT: double checked. the price dropped from 287 to 263 after having bought 60 volumes). Thus the rule about never buying the same book twice only applies if you are not on academic discount. Then you best better believe you're going to have to do so quite frequently.

In the table talk scenario 289 titles at 287$ works out to be about 99 cents a title. thus 60 titles ought to be 59$ and change off the cost of the big package. However it doesn't work that way. It used to be 287$ whether you owned any or not. Happy to see the amount lower but am still perplexed as to why the math doesn't work. its not like there are volumes of disparate value. Some worth 3 or 5$ while others are worth .1 - .15 cents.

abondservant

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/681915#Comment_681915

Is this the intended plan?

It is intended. You can't get academic discount for dynamically priced products. For that reason your dynamic price can sometimes be higher than your academic price. You're shown the lowest of the two prices.

So what about the policy that you never have to buy the same book twice?

as it stands in a 10 book set, if I already own the first 9, I'd have to re-buy them to get the tenth title. Dynamic pricing isn't a discount, its a way to keep you from having to buy the same title twice.

Rosie Perera

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/682066#Comment_682066

Is this the intended plan?

It is intended. You can't get academic discount for dynamically priced products. For that reason your dynamic price can sometimes be higher than your academic price. You're shown the lowest of the two prices.

So what about the policy that you never have to buy the same book twice?

as it stands in a 10 book set, if I already own the first 9, I'd have to re-buy them to get the tenth title. Dynamic pricing isn't a discount, its a way to keep you from having to buy the same title twice.

There isn't an across-the-board "policy that you never have to buy the same book twice." Academic discounts and Dynamic Pricing are mutually exclusive. You can't apply them both together. Sometimes it is cheaper to buy via the Academic pricing model (discount) and sometimes it is cheaper to buy via Dynamic Pricing. In the example you give, let's assume your Academic pricing on the 10 book set (regardless of the fact that you already own 9 of the books through other means) would be $100 (a deep discount off the full price for the set that most people pay), but if you bought just the last remaining book by getting it via Dynamic pricing, your price would be much less, say $15. Then in this case, you'd be better off going with Dynamic Pricing instead of your Academic discount. If you had bought the first 9 books as stand-alones at Academic prices or got some of them through sales or as freebies, then in the end you're still winning big time over people who buy the whole set at the collection price with no Academic discount.

Mark Barnes

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/682066#Comment_682066

Dynamic pricing isn't a discount, its a way to keep you from having to buy the same title twice.

I don't agree with Logos' policy with regard to academic pricing/dynamic pricing.

However, it's important to note that Logos aren't saying you can't get dynamic pricing if you get academic pricing. They're saying that you can't get academic pricing if you're getting dynamic pricing.

So whilst we both see dynamic pricing as more of a 'right' than a courtesy, academic pricing is a courtesy. And it's academic pricing that you lose, not dynamic pricing. (I know that looking at it this way around doesn't make any practical difference to the outcome. But it does make a difference to the rights or wrongs of Logos' policy.)

as it stands in a 10 book set, if I already own the first 9, I'd have to re-buy them to get the tenth title.

That's unlikely to be the case. Let's imagine a bundle of 9 equally-priced items for $100. With academic pricing you get 30% discount on this product.

If you owned 0 volumes, you'd pay $70 on academic pricing.
If you owned 1 volumes, you'd pay $70 on academic pricing.
If you owned 2 volumes, you'd pay $70 on academic pricing.
If you owned 3 volumes, you'd pay $67 on dynamic pricing.
If you owned 4 volumes, you'd pay $55 on dynamic pricing.
If you owned 5 volumes, you'd pay $44 on dynamic pricing.
If you owned 6 volumes, you'd pay $33 on dynamic pricing.
If you owned 7 volumes, you'd pay $22 on dynamic pricing.
If you owned 8 volumes, you'd pay $11 on dynamic pricing.

You're still better off than me for 0-2 volumes, and no worse than me on 3-8 volumes.

abondservant

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/682083#Comment_682083

I understand what you're saying - but I neither have to like it, nor do I have to stop complaining about it.

Its capricious and irritating.

Matthew C Jones

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/688679#Comment_688679

I agree with Logos' policy with regard to academic pricing/dynamic pricing.

But Logos did not ask for my opinion.

si_cochran

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/688692#Comment_688692

ICC NT 33 Vols. is not dynamically priced (https://www.logos.com/product/49015/international-critical-commentary-new-testament), though the full ICC OT and NT 61 Vols. is dynamically priced (https://www.logos.com/product/49022/international-critical-commentary-series). Can we get dynamic pricing on the ICC NT 33 Vols.?

Matthew C Jones

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/688697#Comment_688697

This one started with no dynamic pricing. Then it had dynamic pricing. Then it lost it.

Nelson 501 Book Bundle (501 vols.) $1,989.95

Can we get dynamic pricing again? Or is Zondervan/Nelson excluded?

Mark Barnes

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/688699#Comment_688699

This discussion caused me to revisit my original post. Despite the fact there's been no response on this thread, Logos have in fact responded by fixing three out of the four products.

Mark Barnes

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/688699#Comment_688699

Nelson 501 Book Bundle (501 vols.) $1,989.95

Can we get dynamic pricing again? Or is Zondervan/Nelson excluded?

Zondervan is excluded.

Alex Scott

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/688679#Comment_688679

What a deal!!! I can get another base package, Biblical Languages, which will give me four additional resources which "if sold separately" would be $204.80. All that for my exclusive price of just $637.46 Really??? Someone ought to smarten these birds up!! Do they really think we're THAT STUPID???!!!!

Toby Steele (Logos)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/688808#Comment_688808

What a deal!!! I can get another base package, Biblical Languages, which will give me four additional resources which "if sold separately" would be $204.80. All that for my exclusive price of just $637.46 Really??? Someone ought to smarten these birds up!! Do they really think we're THAT STUPID???!!!!

Hi, Alex--I'm reproducing this and have opened a case to have it corrected. Thanks for the report.

Robert

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/688705#Comment_688705

Is Nelson (and mixed packages w/ Nelson) excluded also?

Ex: https://www.logos.com/product/8582/john-macarthur-essential-bible-study-library

https://www.logos.com/product/43981/john-macarthur-collected-works-and-resources

Matthew C Jones

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/691735#Comment_691735

Is Nelson (and mixed packages w/ Nelson) excluded also?

Yes, according to Mark Barnes (who I trust to always be right), Zondervan and its subsidiaries like Nelson are excluded from dynamic pricing.

See his post: https://community.logos.com/forums/p/98727/688705.aspx#688705

Robert

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/691744#Comment_691744

Thank you - I did see Mark's mention of Zondervan, but did not apprehend the subsidiary relationship.

Just as a footnote on the subject, how can publishers such as Zondervan reckon it good strategy to offer "bundles" or "collections" on the Logos platform that allow folks to potentially buy a resource more than once?

Robert

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/691774#Comment_691774

One final thought if I may: since Faithlife is committed to the dynamic pricing model (i.e. the stewardship proposition that no user would pay for the same resource twice), how can Faithlife agree to it? Many of the largest bundles (often hundreds of titles) in the store are from these publishers. Why would a Christian publisher demand this? I would have to assume this policy is an obstacle for many trying to be good stewards.

Edit: Per the prior discussion, perhaps the answer is that the academic discount, having nothing to do w/ dynamic pricing, is sufficient to make these large collections good values. As a non-academic user however, I pass them without pause. Can this be good business? Grace & peace <><

Whyndell Grizzard

I've just added some resources to the Metadata corrections proposals wiki page. It's great to see that Hayley from Logos has been keeping track of that page, and actioning many of the proposals.

We could do with something similar for bundles missing dynamic pricing. I know we can create a single thread, but requests can get buried under lots of discussion. Or we could create a new thread everything we notice a problem, but they're likely to get missed. A wiki page might be the answer.

Of course this will only work if a Logos staff member wants to take responsibility for it, and agrees that this is a good way of going about it. What about it Logos?

(And for the record, here's what I'd like to add to it.)

Missing dynamic pricing:

Peter A. Steveson Commentary Collection (5 vols.) — now fixed!

Northwest Semitic Collection (7 vols.) — now fixed!

Walk! Messianic Jewish Devotional Commentary Collection (5 vols.) — now fixed!

Broken dynamic pricing:

Believers Church Bible Commentary (26 vols.). After purchasing the John commentary, my dynamic pricing price didn't change, and remains at $49.95 for one volume.

BCBC volume on Joshua cannot be correctly priced at $49.95! the pricing is definitely off.

Mark Barnes

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/691815#Comment_691815

since Faithlife is committed to the dynamic pricing model (i.e. the stewardship proposition that no user would pay for the same resource twice), how can Faithlife agree to it?

I think the Zondervan contract predates the dynamic pricing commitment. Whereas most contracts Logos have with publishers offer the publisher a percentage of the sales price (and Logos some freedom in setting the price), the Zondervan contract gives the publisher a fixed royalty, which obviously reduces Logos' freedom substantially.

Robert

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/692068#Comment_692068

That makes sense, and Zondervan's business model (though flawed, IMHO) would prevail in such a case - thanks again Mark for your reliable insight.[Y]

Ann Hudson

We could do with something similar for bundles missing dynamic pricing. I know we can create a single thread, but requests can get buried under lots of discussion. Or we could create a new thread everything we notice a problem, but they're likely to get missed. A wiki page might be the answer.

Of course this will only work if a Logos staff member wants to take responsibility for it, and agrees that this is a good way of going about it. What about it Logos?

(And for the record, here's what I'd like to add to it.)

Missing dynamic pricing:

Peter A. Steveson Commentary Collection (5 vols.) — now fixed!

Northwest Semitic Collection (7 vols.) — now fixed!

Walk! Messianic Jewish Devotional Commentary Collection (5 vols.) — now fixed!

Broken dynamic pricing:

Believers Church Bible Commentary (26 vols.). After purchasing the John commentary, my dynamic pricing price didn't change, and remains at $49.95 for one volume.

would like to add:

B&H Pastoral Ministry Collection (13 vols.)