Upgrading from Libronix

A bit of background. I have been a Logos user since the mid 90s. I have had Libronix on my home and work computer for many years now. I tried Logos 4 a while back, and didn't love it. I use the NASB as my primary Bible, and love the ability to hover over any word and see the original language word, and to be able to right-click to search my pre-set selection of original language books.

I also have it set to search specific original language materials by clicking on a word in my Greek and Hebrew Bibles. My default workload includes the Bible versions I commonly reference, either Greek or Hebrew text, and specified commentaries. Nearly all my study work is done like this, in the text. I don't use the search features much, but love the the workflow that I have developed for studying a given text. It seems, I will lose many of these capabilities when I have to upgrade (correct me if I'm wrong).

However, we've just bought a new Windows 7 machine, and it doesn't seem to like Libronix - I'm having real problems installing it. I know I will have to upgrade my engine at some point, and am resigned that now will be that time, at least for this computer.

I understand that the free upgrade to version 6 will be made available in February. So, my question is, do I upgrade to version 5 now, or wait a month for version 6? Waiting means not being able to use Logos on this computer for a month. Not my favorite option, but my old computer is still available to me. It seems equally as awkward to upgrade to 5 now, only to decide to upgrade to 6 in a very short time. I'm fairly sure I won't want to pay the significant cost for the "crossgrade" package, but would be open to that discussion as well.

All advice, opinions, and input would be appreciated. I'm debating whether to post this on the "Logos 5" forum as well, but not sure if that would be useful or not.

As a side note, reading these forums, I am very impressed with the depth of knowledge and insight on these forums.

Thank you for the help, in advance.

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JT (alabama24)

Welcome! [:)]

So, my question is, do I upgrade to version 5 now, or wait a month for version 6?

The software engine is ALWAYS free... but when a major new version comes out, it is made available to those who purchase base packages first. The model that Logos uses is to sell resources and give the software away for free... so obviously they want to have some additional incentive to update base packages. There is no reason not to update today... The software engine is updated frequently, so downloading the L5 engine today and the L6 engine when it becomes available is a trifle (unless you have data caps).

You should know: the software is free, but some of the features will require paid data sets. You don't have to make those purchases, but you will not be able to use those features. This shouldn't discourage you... there are many free features (i.e. the ability to make highlights and sync them to mobile).

Since I have never used Libronix (I'm a Mac), I will let others make additional comments.

Rich DeRuiter

I also have it set to search specific original language materials by clicking on a word in my Greek and Hebrew Bibles. My default workload includes the Bible versions I commonly reference, either Greek or Hebrew text, and specified commentaries. Nearly all my study work is done like this, in the text. I don't use the search features much, but love the the workflow that I have developed for studying a given text. It seems, I will lose many of these capabilities when I have to upgrade (correct me if I'm wrong).

This does work in Logos 4/5/6 in much the same way as in Logos. You will not lose anything in that regard. You will have to set up a your preferred Bible, lexicons, commentaries, and so forth, which can seem daunting, though the wiki can help a lot (as will these forums).

The change in how Logos 4/5/6 works as compared to Libronix is pretty big, so figure on taking some time to learn it. Thankfully there is the wiki, some excellent free video training, and these forums to help you make the transition.

You may want to consider one of the crossgrades as this will give you some features you may really like (e.g., getting to a place on a map quickly, or to the factbook on a place or person).

You can choose to get the free Logos5 engine if you want now and then upgrade to the Logos6 engine later. The upgrade from one to the other should be fairly painless.

Al Het

One more thing. I read an article (that I can't find now) where a guy was complaining that Logos 5 and 6 slowed down his computer. He claimed that this slow-down was not only while using Logos, but that it seemed to be using significant resources even when the program was not open, that it must be running in the background. He said he found the problem less sever with version 6, but the machine was still slower than without it installed.

I know these versions are massive, compared to Libronix, and that they can take many hours to install, and to index/render/update. I would also assume that they are much more resource-intensive while running. However, I wonder if any of you notice them slowing your system down even when not in use? I'm a bit skeptical of this complaint, but thought I'd check. I didn't find any complaints of this on this forum.

Thanks again.

Todd Phillips

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/685317#Comment_685317

I know these versions are massive, compared to Libronix, and that they can take many hours to install, and to index/render/update. I would also assume that they are much more resource-intensive while running. However, I wonder if any of you notice them slowing your system down even when not in use? I'm a bit skeptical of this complaint, but thought I'd check. I didn't find any complaints of this on this forum.

I have no problem with Logos causing slow downs when not in use. In fact, the program itself does not slow my system down when running.

The only thing that causes slowdowns is the indexer (which is a separate process from the main application and it does run in the background). But that can be managed by not allowing updates to install until you're ready or pausing the indexer if it is already running. Even with the indexer running though, my computer is useable--just not as responsive. The indexer only runs when it is needed. It does not run all the time.

Dan Francis

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/685335#Comment_685335

I thing you need to make sure of is on your old machine make sure you perform a synchronization licenses in Libronix 3... Then downloading 5 and signing in should work fine.

-Dan

NB.Mick

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/685335#Comment_685335

I know these versions are massive, compared to Libronix, and that they can take many hours to install, and to index/render/update. I would also assume that they are much more resource-intensive while running. However, I wonder if any of you notice them slowing your system down even when not in use? I'm a bit skeptical of this complaint, but thought I'd check. I didn't find any complaints of this on this forum.

I have no problem with Logos causing slow downs when not in use. In fact, the program itself does not slow my system down when running.

The only thing that causes slowdowns is the indexer (which is a separate process from the main application and it does run in the background). But that can be managed by not allowing updates to install until you're ready or pausing the indexer if it is already running. Even with the indexer running though, my computer is useable--just not as responsive. The indexer only runs when it is needed. It does not run all the time.

Al, you are getting the best advice here. Two small additions that may come in helpful:

you didn't share any specifics about your Win 7 machine. I strongly assume that it's better than my old Acer Extensa. However, I can subscribe to Todd's post from my experience - from the moment I had replaced the original 5400rpm HD with a new SSD. So if you got the chance to install Logos on one: do it.
With the jump from Libronix to Logos 4, much changed in the way the system works. L5 and L6 are minor incrementals in comparison. So it might be helpful if you check out the wiki ( http://wiki.logos.com ) to find some training resources aimed at the Libronix => L4 upgrade.

Todd Phillips

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/685368#Comment_685368

you didn't share any specifics about your Win 7 machine. I strongly assume that it's better than my old Acer Extensa. However, I can subscribe to Todd's post from my experience - from the moment I had replaced the original 5400rpm HD with a new SSD. So if you got the chance to install Logos on one: do it.

Notice from my signature that I have a 7200 RPM drive (which itself is much slower than an SSD). I've never run Logos with a 5400 rpm drive, but from what I hear, it is to be avoided.

Dave Hooton

I understand that the free upgrade to version 6 will be made available in February. So, my question is, do I upgrade to version 5 now, or wait a month for version 6? Waiting means not being able to use Logos on this computer for a month.

No need to wait as the Logos 5 engine is free. The most important thing, as mentioned above, is to synchronize your licenses in Libronix 3. Then after you install Logos 5 it will download your resources; most of which will be in the new Logos4 format.

There is no slow down of the computer but it would be advisable to have 8 GB memory for Logos 6 so that you can take advantage of it being 64-bit (Logos 5 is 32-bit) and be able to run your other programs as normal.

Rosie Perera

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/685358#Comment_685358

I thing you need to make sure of is on your old machine make sure you perform a synchronization licenses in Libronix 3...

The most important thing, as mentioned above, is to synchronize your licenses in Libronix 3.

Unfortunately the server that was used for synchronizing licenses in Libronix 3 was retired a while back so you can no longer do that. You will need to call Customer Service for help with doing that process manually. See this post for more information.

Mark Barnes

I understand that the free upgrade to version 6 will be made available in February.

As others have said, there's no reason not to upgrade to L5 now.

In case it's not already clear, you have to unlearn or relearn a fair bit when you switch from Libronix to Logos 4/5/6. But there's almost nothing to unlearn or relearn when you move from L4 to L5, or L5 to L6.

So there's nothing really to lose in updating now.

It seems, I will lose many of these capabilities when I have to upgrade (correct me if I'm wrong).

It's hard to tell exactly what you're work flow is, but the only capability I think you might lose is the ability to open multiple lexicons with one double-click. Logos 4/5/6 restrict that to one lexicon, although you can open others with just a further click afterwards.

I suggest you download L5 (it's free!), and once it's installed you come back with a more specific question about how best to achieve your workflow in L5.

As regards a slowdown, when you first install Logos (or when you update resources later), then Logos 4/5/6 indexes your new resources. It does this in the background, and it does slow your computer significantly. However, it only lasts a little while, and then you're back to normal.

Rich DeRuiter

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/685631#Comment_685631

It's hard to tell exactly what you're work flow is, but the only capability I think you might lose is the ability to open multiple lexicons with one double-click. Logos 4/5/6 restrict that to one lexicon, although you can open others with just a further click afterwards.

Or you can scroll through your lexicons with the right/left arrow keys (as in Libronix), or choose another lexicon from the parallel resources drop-down list at the top of the tab (of those 2 options, I almost always choose the 2nd). I rarely find it necessary to have more than one lexicon open at a time.

HJ. van der Wal

It seems, I will lose many of these capabilities when I have to upgrade (correct me if I'm wrong).

Do you often you the parallel passages tool (harmonies)? This was the only thing I really missed after upgrading to Logos 4. But for me even the free version of Logos 4 had enough features to compensate the loss.

Rich DeRuiter

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/685645#Comment_685645

Do you often you the parallel passages tool (harmonies)? This was the only thing I really missed after upgrading to Logos 4. But for me even the free version of Logos 4 had enough features to compensate the loss.

Parallel passages are still available in the Passage Guide. Does that not satisfy what you want to do with them?

Dan Francis

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/685465#Comment_685465

Unfortunately the server that was used for synchronizing licenses in Libronix 3 was retired a while back so you can no longer do that. You will need to call Customer Service for help with doing that process manually. See this post for more information.

Good to know.... adds another level of work for the Faithlife staff not to mention the annoyance of needing to call in... but not an overly difficult thing I guess...

-Dan

HJ. van der Wal

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/685647#Comment_685647

Parallel passages are still available in the Passage Guide. Does that not satisfy what you want to do with them?

I'm perfectly satisfied... after I bought a base package which included parallel passages resources. In the free upgrade you don't have access to any harmonies you might have had in Libronix.

NB.Mick

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/685653#Comment_685653

Parallel passages are still available in the Passage Guide. Does that not satisfy what you want to do with them?

I'm perfectly satisfied... after I bought a base package which included parallel passages resources. In the free upgrade you don't have access to any harmonies you might have had in Libronix.

They were part of the L4 Minimal Crossgrade. In my post above I originally wanted to point out that this rather inexpensive thing should be part of the upgrade, even if no further datasets and features are wished for, only to find out that it has been retired and the only MCs left are for L6.

Al Het

Thank to everyone for all the input. I wasn't as precise in my question as I could have been, but that got me some additional valuable input.

I was curious if the base engine for L6 will get me anything appreciably more than the base engine for L5, without buying crossgrades. However, what I hear you all saying is, it is a small upgrade from 5 to 6 (I'm assuming this means I won't have to delete the huge program that is L5 to then download and install a more massive program that is L6), so there's no harm in updating now.

My experience with L4 leads me to believe there will be at least a few minor annoyances which will increase my workload some, a couple of which have already been acknowledged by people in this thread. My guess is, because I don't want to spend hundreds of dollars more on "crossgrades," whatever advantages I might get with these new versions won't exist. What I'll be left with is a slightly less efficient process with no real gain, or again, the need to spend hundreds of dollars. Still, a major time savings from having to search through physical book resources by hand, though.

Thanks again for all the input.

Al Het

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/685465#Comment_685465

Unfortunately the server that was used for synchronizing licenses in Libronix 3 was retired a while back so you can no longer do that. You will need to call Customer Service for help with doing that process manually. See this post for more information.

Ugh. Thanks for this, Rosie. It would have been a frustrating process without knowing this.

Al Het

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/685631#Comment_685631

It's hard to tell exactly what you're work flow is, but the only capability I think you might lose is the ability to open multiple lexicons with one double-click. Logos 4/5/6 restrict that to one lexicon, although you can open others with just a further click afterwards.

I suggest you download L5 (it's free!), and once it's installed you come back with a more specific question about how best to achieve your workflow in L5.

As regards a slowdown, when you first install Logos (or when you update resources later), then Logos 4/5/6 indexes your new resources. It does this in the background, and it does slow your computer significantly. However, it only lasts a little while, and then you're back to normal.

Yeah, that inability to open multiple lexicons in one action was one of the more frustrating things I noticed in version 4. Doesn't make sense to me that they would remove this ability.

It sounds like the indexing only happens when you add new books (though people seem to regularly report that the first time takes many, many hours). I can live with that. L4 would update all the time, tying up the machine. Not sure if indexing was part of that problem, but it sounds like that has been improved in versions 5 and 6.

Thanks for the input.

Al Het

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/685635#Comment_685635

Or you can scroll through your lexicons with the right/left arrow keys (as in Libronix), or choose another lexicon from the parallel resources drop-down list at the top of the tab (of those 2 options, I almost always choose the 2nd). I rarely find it necessary to have more than one lexicon open at a time.

Hmmm. It might not be "necessary," but I find it plenty useful to have my 3 most used lexicons open at once. It's not a major issue, but will mean more searching back and forth, which I didn't have to do with L3.

Al Het

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/685645#Comment_685645

Do you often you the parallel passages tool (harmonies)? This was the only thing I really missed after upgrading to Logos 4. But for me even the free version of Logos 4 had enough features to compensate the loss.

I'll miss that some too.

Todd Phillips

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/685682#Comment_685682

Or you can scroll through your lexicons with the right/left arrow keys (as in Libronix), or choose another lexicon from the parallel resources drop-down list at the top of the tab (of those 2 options, I almost always choose the 2nd). I rarely find it necessary to have more than one lexicon open at a time.

Hmmm. It might not be "necessary," but I find it plenty useful to have my 3 most used lexicons open at once. It's not a major issue, but will mean more searching back and forth, which I didn't have to do with L3.

Logos doesn't prevent having more than one open. It just won't open more than one automatically when you do a normal lookup.

You can create a layout that has multiple lexicons open and link them together. So when you look up a word/lemma, Logos will find it in the highest prioritized one, but all the linked ones will then also move to the same entry, if they have it. Works great.

There is also the Power Lookup tool---it finds all the resources in your library that have that headword entry. It just shows a few lines from each resource in one window, but those can be clicked on to open the resource to that entry.

Al Het

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/685662#Comment_685662

They were part of the L4 Minimal Crossgrade. In my post above I originally wanted to point out that this rather inexpensive thing should be part of the upgrade, even if no further datasets and features are wished for, only to find out that it has been retired and the only MCs left are for L6.

I absolutely agree with you. When I had to put L4 on one of my computers, the crossgrades didn't exist. I was never even aware that such things existed until a couple of weeks ago, when I was forced to look at upgrading on my main study computer. And what this means is, I've missed the opportunity. Looking at what was offered in that minimal crossgrade, I probably would have been willing to pay that small amount of money for what that offered. However, that window is gone, and the lowest cost option I have now is around $250 (the price of my entire original Logos package - version 1.6 I think, after a great discount, which gave me almost all of the original language books I still use today). And what I will be paying for is a ton of things I will never use.

Dave Hooton

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/685675#Comment_685675

I was curious if the base engine for L6 will get me anything appreciably more than the base engine for L5, without buying crossgrades.

See this feature comparison Look for items that are not available in L5 but that will work in L6 Engine ("Y" or blank) e.g Label Entry

However, what I hear you all saying is, it is a small upgrade from 5 to 6 (I'm assuming this means I won't have to delete the huge program that is L5 to then download and install a more massive program that is L6), so there's no harm in updating now.

Updating from free L5 to free L6 is much the same as installing L5 except that there will be no resource downloads & no indexing (some updated datasets may be downloaded but there is no indexing). It adds about 50 MB to the existing L5 installation.

Al Het

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/685687#Comment_685687

You can create a layout that has multiple lexicons open and link them together. So when you look up a word/lemma, Logos will find it in the highest prioritized one, but all the linked ones will then also move to the same entry, if they have it. Works great.

Thanks Todd. Sounds like a viable work-around to what I'm used to doing. I'd prefer to not have to have all the lexicons open until I search a word, but it's not a huge deal, I guess.

There is also the Power Lookup tool---it finds all the resources in your library that have that headword entry. It just shows a few lines from each resource in one window, but those can be clicked on to open the resource to that entry.

Yeah, I can imagine situations that this would be useful. However, for most of my study/prep work, I am generally working within a passage. I'll do lexical searches on many words in each study. Working through every mention of a word sounds interesting, but more than I am usually looking for.

Thanks for the useful input.

Al Het

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/685786#Comment_685786

See this feature comparison Look for items that are not available in L5 but that will work in L6 Engine ("Y" or blank) e.g Label Entry

Thanks. That's a chart I haven't seen before.

Updating from free L5 to free L6 is much the same as installing L5 except that there will be no resource downloads & no indexing (some updated datasets may be downloaded but there is no indexing). It adds about 50 MB to the existing L5 installation.

Exactly what I was looking for.

Thank you.