Library cost/benefit

We are a teaching parish with area clergy using our library for resources and "get-away space" that is free of distraction. We also train student ministers and interns. While we have a computer they can use to link with the Internet, most bring their own laptops. (We are talking of three or four clergy each month).

As I contemplate upgrading from Logos 5 to 6 for myself, I am aware that for that amount of money I could purchase some very important reference books for our library (some included in Logos and some not).

So the dilemma: How do we justify purchasing these upgrades knowing that they cannot be shared as I do, for example, from my physical library?

Mostly just a question to ponder. But this seems to continue a "me first" sort of library-building instead of a "community shared" resource development. Does anyone else struggle with justifying this personal expense at the expense of community resourcing?

Find more posts tagged with

Comments

Matthew C Jones

So the dilemma: How do we justify purchasing these upgrades knowing that they cannot be shared as I do, for example, from my physical library?

Mostly just a question to ponder. But this seems to continue a "me first" sort of library-building instead of a "community shared" resource development. Does anyone else struggle with justifying this personal expense at the expense of community resourcing?

It all depends on the source of funding. I have no problem spending my own funds for my own use. However, I would feel a little uncomfortable buying myself a Ferrari if my church is needing a van to shuttle the elderly to church services.

If the clergy who benefit from the community resources are able, but not willing, to contribute to the acquisition of resources I would not be as concerned about it.

The one thing I would not do is to share my Logos library with others.

GaoLu

Her are some ideas that might help you decide:

Get academic discount.
I don't know why someone can't use your computer to do research, much like loaning a single book.
You can export a fair amount of a book for use.

Everett Headley

I do not have an issue justifying the expense because the books are purchased primarily for my own study. I use my own funds or book budget for them. There is certainly a drawback for the digital versions and not sharing them as a dead tree version. However, there are benefits with the digital such as instant searches, and ultra-portability. This is definitely a case of personal preference. I stopped loaning books many years ago as so few came home. There may be a a case where Logos does communal licences some day, and in your situation might work nicely.

Matthew C Jones

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/690870#Comment_690870

I don't know why someone can't use your computer to do research, much like loaning a single book.

Because it is illegal and unethical as it violates the EULA.

DMB

Chris ... since you're new, my official title is 'Naysayer'. So just adjust the volume.

Let's assume your parish gave you a budget for a vehicle. You promptly headed for the dealership and bought (actually rented; you only own the licenses) a nice well-appointed vehicle. But the dealer (who actually owns the vehicle), limited the vehicle to just you (part of the manufacturer's contract).

Later, a fellow member needs to use the car ... the same one funded by not-you. You demur ... since you bought the wrong car.

Seems to me either (a) buy paper or (b) buy sharable-digital. There's no (c).

Now again, I'm the naysayer. I'm not sure how any pastor buys non-sharable digital, who presumes to share the gospel. Only 'verbal'?

Dan Francis

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/690873#Comment_690873

I don't know why someone can't use your computer to do research, much like loaning a single book.

Because it is illegal and unethical as it violates the EULA.

This is true...however I think Logos might find itself with more customers if they could implement a loan option. Your select a book, push Loan and enter the other users email...select the loan duration (perhaps 1-4 option), and the book is disabled in your Library for that period. This would encourage Pastors and others to virtually evangelize for Faithlife (hey you have a smart phone, download this App and I can lend you this book).

-Dan

Cale Judd

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/690930#Comment_690930

Dan, I think that's an excellent idea! I'm not sure what it would take, but I know Amazon does that with Kindle resources.

Matthew C Jones

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/690930#Comment_690930

I think Logos might find itself with more customers if they could implement a loan option.

I do think they would get new customers that way. I also think an institutional license, allowing multiple users, would also generate sales. I just wonder if it is more of a licensing issue than a coding one.

JT (alabama24)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/690932#Comment_690932

I know Amazon does that with Kindle resources.

They do, but... (actually BUT... it's a big one):

Many resources are NOT "lendable."
Resources can be lent once and ONLY once.
The "lending" duration is for two weeks only.

Would I like to see these same rules applied to Logos? Yep. Is it the Nirvana many people make it out to be? Nope.

Dan Francis

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/690938#Comment_690938

I think Logos might find itself with more customers if they could implement a loan option.

I do think they would get new customers that way. I also think an institutional license, allowing multiple users, would also generate sales. I just wonder if it is more of a licensing issue than a coding one.

Well my Logic was is they were using it on their phone they may investigate it to actually purchase other books on their own, and even maybe a starter base package. But I speak as a book lover who deeply love study of the Word.

-Dan

JAL

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/690930#Comment_690930

I think Logos might find itself with more customers if they could implement a loan option.

Something akin to the Kindle Book Lending feature. https://kdp.amazon.com/help?topicId=A2JGI9S4FDM39Q

EDIT: Returning to this thread I see several people already posted about Kindle Book Lending. Next time before clicking on reply I better refresh the page after taking a phone call.[:$]

GaoLu

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/690873#Comment_690873

I don't know why someone can't use your computer to do research, much like loaning a single book.

Because it is illegal and unethical as it violates the EULA.

You are right. I read the EULA.

The short version is this: "The license goes with the user. Every user must purchase their own package. If you have a work machine and a laptop and they are both yours for your personal use, you may load it on both for your personal use - because the license goes with the user." Can you purchase one package and have two people use it? No. The license goes with the user. The license is a single user license.

All licenses are single human being licenses. We do not offer site-licenses, shared licenses, co-op licenses, library licenses or multi-user licenses. A church or company may be the purchaser and thus legal owner of the license grant, but may only allow one human being to be the beneficiary of this license grant.

Suggesting that an open computer in an educational setting with Logos available to all was a really bad suggestion.

Rayner

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/690930#Comment_690930

This is true...however I think Logos might find itself with more customers if they could implement a loan option. Your select a book, push Loan and enter the other users email...select the loan duration (perhaps 1-4 option), and the book is disabled in your Library for that period. This would encourage Pastors and others to virtually evangelize for Faithlife (hey you have a smart phone, download this App and I can lend you this book).

That's a brilliant idea! I would love to share my resources with others, but know that the EULA prohibits it. But I hate the fact that I can afford resources and others cannot, and I cannot lend them in the way I lend other books. I can hardly read all of my Logos library at the same time and so I think a "lend" option that would disable me from reading, but would let others read would be fantastic.

Bruce Dunning

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/690958#Comment_690958

I know Amazon does that with Kindle resources.

They do, but... (actually BUT... it's a big one):

Many resources are NOT "lendable."

Resources can be lent once and ONLY once.

The "lending" duration is for two weeks only.

Would I like to see these same rules applied to Logos? Yep. Is it the Nirvana many people make it out to be? Nope.

Thanks for explaining this as I was not aware of how it worked in Kindle.

JT (alabama24)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/691110#Comment_691110

Sure thing

Chris Bowman

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/690869#Comment_690869

Thanks, all, for the conversation.

I do think it is a decision, ultimately, about the use of church resources. (Since I am a pastor, my ability to personally purchase these resources using my "professional expenses or professional growth account on non-sharable resources is still a decision about the faith community's resources). Also bothersome, I believe the ULA states that the program and its digital library are not only non-sharable but also non-transferrable so, when I leave ministry, I'll not be able to donate my vast library or digital resources to the next pastor.

In full disclosure: I did relent and purchase the upgrade this week. Ironically, I was also able to loan a visiting pastor an old copy of a book from my personal collection that I had been given by another pastor upon his retirement (one I had a second copy of).

THe visiting pastor was very thankful because she is just beginning her ministry and does not have a substantial library of her own. Nor does she have ANY budget from her church for resources. Sure, the book was old and in the public domain (and can be found, searchable, on the Internet, but still....[:)]

Graham Criddle

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/692067#Comment_692067

Also bothersome, I believe the ULA states that the program and its digital library are not only non-sharable but also non-transferrable so, when I leave ministry, I'll not be able to donate my vast library or digital resources to the next pastor.

Transfers are possible (at Faithlife's discretion) - there are some constraints - on payment of a transaction fee as per the following from the EULA

At Faithlife's sole discretion you may transfer all your rights to use the Software, Content, and Documentation to another person or legal entity provided you transfer this Agreement, the Software, Content, and Documentation, including all copies, updates and prior versions to such person or entity and that you retain no copies, including copies stored on computer. There will be a processing fee charged on all transfers which is subject to change without notice. As of 6/17/09 the fee is equal to $20.00 per transfer.

Mike Binks

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/692067#Comment_692067

I believe the ULA states that the program and its digital library are not only non-sharable but also non-transferrable so, when I leave ministry, I'll not be able to donate my vast library or digital resources to the next pastor.

Not so -

'At Faithlife's sole discretion you may transfer all your rights to use the Software, Content, and Documentation to another person or legal entity provided you transfer this Agreement, the Software, Content, and Documentation, including all copies, updates and prior versions to such person or entity and that you retain no copies, including copies stored on computer. There will be a processing fee charged on all transfers which is subject to change without notice. As of 6/17/09 the fee is equal to $20.00 per transfer.'

The 'sole discretion' clause is there to stop abuse of this procedure. You can trawl the forums for the owners undertaking that transfers will not be unreasonably withheld. I have my digital library mentioned in my will.

Not so (2)

when I leave ministry,

There is no point in making any other arrangement for disposing of your library as despite using all Logos' search powers I am unable to find a (earthly) retirement plan for Christians that is mentioned in the Bible.

PS I really don't like Graham (Speedy) Criddle [;)]

Glenn Crouch

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/690930#Comment_690930

This is true...however I think Logos might find itself with more customers if they could implement a loan option. Your select a book, push Loan and enter the other users email...select the loan duration (perhaps 1-4 option), and the book is disabled in your Library for that period. This would encourage Pastors and others to virtually evangelize for Faithlife (hey you have a smart phone, download this App and I can lend you this book).

I think this would be a fabulous idea and I know many people I would lend books this way and none of them currently use Logos.

abondservant

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/692079#Comment_692079

I recently joined the 10k plus resources club. I too am now a pastor (associate at this moment, in the process of being called to the Sr Pastorate at the same church). I receive xxx$ a month for purchasing books (that I am allowed to keep) for my own development.

Logos is transferable. The number of times and to whom is at logos discretion. Official rules are unofficially not followed depending on the circumstances. They are very much about following the spirit of the rule rather than the letter.

For instance I was once the recipient of another individuals academically licensed library. I purchased it for 100$ (if I remember right) on amazon as un-used. however unbeknownst to me the serial had already been activated. However Customer Service after some discussion to verify my story went ahead and activated these normally not transferable licenses into my account.

So I have no doubt that you would be able to transfer your library (or even sell it off - there is a facebook group dedicated to selling off things you no longer use or want) should you ever leave ministry. It seems to be those who are abusing the system that are blocked from transfers (and occasionally a new employee tries to protect Logos - ask supertramp about his story if you like).

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/692104#Comment_692104

OK, guys. Back up the truck. It's transferable ... one time. Your transferee is the final destination. (Subject to Logos' discretion maybe 30 years from now, whoever owns Logos at that time.)

That's why Matthew got so wound-up. And justifiably so.