Latin Vulgate interlinear? Or how would I solve this question?
I came across the following in Dante's Divine Comedy (Purgatorio, 28.081, in Mandelbaum's translation): "the psalm beginning 'Delectasti.'"
I wanted to use Logos to figure out what psalm that was. I know next to no Latin, but enough to recognize that that word is either Latin (or Italian, Dante's tongue, which I know is close to Latin). So I figured I could find it in the Latin Vulgate which I have in Logos. Bingo. That word occurs in Psalm 91:5 in both the Biblia Sacra Vulgata ("quia delectasti me, Domine, in factura tua; et in operibus manuum tuarum exultabo.") and the Clementine Vulgate (slightly different spelling/capitalization).
But now is where I have difficulty: I want to know what that word means in context. Was hoping for Interlinear capabilities in the Vulgate but no such luck (is there one in the works?).
Looking at an English translation, I cannot make out what that word might be from Ps 91:5. But I know the chapter breakdowns and versifications are probably different in the Vulgate. So how can I find out what verse in my English Bible corresponds to Psalm 91:5 in the Vulgate?
Any help from you Latin Vulgate scholars or versemap experts (e.g., Martha)?
Comments
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delectasti think delectable, delight (who needs Latin ) http://www.medievalist.net/psalmstxt/ps91.htm
Parallel Latin/English Psalter
______________________________ ______________________________ Psalmus 91 (92)
Psalm 91 (92)
1 Psalmus cantici in die sabbati 1 A psalm of a canticle on the sabbath day. 2 Bonum est confiteri Domino et psallere nomini tuo Altissime 2 It is good to give praise to the Lord: and to sing to thy name, O most High. 3 Ad adnuntiandum mane misericordiam tuam et veritatem tuam per noctem 3 To shew forth thy mercy in the morning, and thy truth in the night: 4 In decacordo psalterio cum cantico in cithara 4 Upon an instrument of ten strings, upon the psaltery: with a canticle upon the harp. 5 Quia delectasti me Domine in factura tua et in operibus manuum tuarum exultabo 5 For thou hast given me, O Lord, a delight in thy doings: and in the works of thy hands I shall rejoice. 6 Quam magnificata sunt opera tua Domine nimis profundae factae sunt cogitationes tuae 6 O Lord, how great are thy works! thy thoughts are exceeding deep. 7 Vir insipiens non cognoscet et stultus non intelleget haec 7 The senseless man shall not know: nor will the fool understand these things. 8 Cum exorti fuerint peccatores sicut faenum et apparuerint omnes qui operantur iniquitatem ut intereant in saeculum saeculi 8 When the wicked shall spring up as grass: and all the workers of iniquity shall appear: That they may perish for ever and ever: 9 Tu autem Altissimus in aeternum Domine 9 but thou, O Lord, art most high for evermore. 10 quoniam ecce inimici tui Domine quoniam ecce inimici tui peribunt et dispergentur omnes qui operantur iniquitatem 10 For behold thy enemies, O Lord, for behold thy enemies shall perish: and all the workers of iniquity shall be scattered. 11 Et exaltabitur sicut unicornis cornu meum et senectus mea in misericordia uberi 11 But my horn shall be exalted like that of the unicorn: and my old age in plentiful mercy. 12 Et despexit oculus meus inimicis meis et insurgentibus in me malignantibus audiet auris mea 12 My eye also hath looked down upon my enemies: and my ear shall hear of the downfall of the malignant that rise up against me. 13 Iustus ut palma florebit ut cedrus Libani multiplicabitur 13 The just shall flourish like the palm tree: he shall grow up like the cedar of Libanus. 14 Plantati in domo Domini in atriis Dei nostri florebunt 14 They that are planted in the house of the Lord shall flourish in the courts of the house of our God. 15 Adhuc multiplicabuntur in senecta uberi et bene patientes erunt 15 They shall still increase in a fruitful old age: and shall be well treated, 16 Ut adnuntient quoniam rectus Dominus Deus noster et non est iniquitas in eo 16 that they may shew, That the Lord our God is righteous, and there is no iniquity in him. ______________________________ ______________________________
Damian may correct me[:)]
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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You can use the versemap name in the reference box as described here: http://community.logos.com/forums/t/8965.aspx
I'm not sure the difference between VUL-C and VUL-W, but they both have the same mapping here.
MacBook Pro (2019), ThinkPad E540
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You can also link the Vulgate and an English bible, then enter your reference in the reference box for the Vulgate and it will sync to the corresponding verse in the English:
P.S. I'm thinking the Vulgate related resources need a better cover icon.
MacBook Pro (2019), ThinkPad E540
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Primary Vulgates:
- Clementina from Vercellone (1861) and Colunga-Turrado (1947)
- New Vulgate (1979)
- Stuttgart
So I suspect Damian will have to identify the "-W"
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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MJ. Smith said:
Primary Vulgates:
- Clementina from Vercellone (1861) and Colunga-Turrado (1947)
- New Vulgate (1979)
- Stuttgart
So I suspect Damian will have to identify the "-W"
Since the two Vulgates in Logos are the Clementine Vulgate and the Biblia Sacra Vulgata, I'm assuming the two verse maps correspond. So that would make the VUL-W match the Biblia Sacra Vulgata? If so, what does the W mean?
Haven't seen Damian around in a while. Bradley can answer too. He's the one who programmed it.
MacBook Pro (2019), ThinkPad E540
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Todd Phillips said:
Haven't seen Damian around in a while. Bradley can answer too. He's the one who programmed it.
Reading along occasionally. Way too pressed to spend any serious time eitehr with logos or the forum - more's the pity.
Not sure why Martha thinks I know the answer to this.....
My guess. W refers to Robert Weber the editor of the Stuttgart edition. In BHS, "We" is superscripted above "V" to indicate a reference to Weber's edition.
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Rosie Perera said:
I came across the following in Dante's Divine Comedy (Purgatorio, 28.081, in Mandelbaum's translation): "the psalm beginning 'Delectasti.'"
Rosie,
Obviously, a "psalm beginning Delectasti" will not refer to Psalm 91. The translation is slightly faulty, Dante says simply "But the Psalm Delectasti brings light which can uncloud your mind" - magnificent turn of phrase....
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Damian McGrath said:
Not sure why Martha thinks I know the answer to this.....
Hey, take credit when its offered. [:D]
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Rosie Perera said:
I know next to no Latin
Rosie
Could I refer you to a useful Logos resource that could quickly help remedy that?
It's called An Introduction to Ecclesiastical Latin by H.P.V. Nunn. You already have it in your base package.
A basic grasp of Latin is very useful in Patristics, since many of the original texts were written in Latin (eg Augustine, Anselm et al.).
I had not studied Latin since the early-1960s, when I did it at Secondary School Level (US High School) to Scottish Higher standard. (In those days you needed a Higher pass in Latin to get into any Scottish University to study any Arts subjects!! There were only four universities then, St. Andrews founded 1411, Glasgow founded 1451, Aberdeen founded 1495 and Edinburgh founded much later) Yet just a few hours brushing up with Nunn's excellent Introduction brought it all flooding back. I am not fluent, but I can translate from Latin into English with the help of a dictionary, though I find English into Latin far harder. (I use Logos edition of Harper-Collins Collins Latin Dictionary and Grammar.
In addition, if you are at all proficient in Greek, then Latin is not too dissimilar in grammatical structure. There are five noun declensions and four verb conjugations. There is one more noun case the Ablative, but the verb is much easier than in Greek.
Take your time and you will enjoy it. Festina lente, puella! Or as they say in Buchan "Tak' it canny, quine."
Every blessing
Alan
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Alan Macgregor said:Rosie Perera said:
I know next to no Latin
Could I refer you to a useful Logos resource that could quickly help remedy that?
It's called An Introduction to Ecclesiastical Latin by H.P.V. Nunn. You already have it in your base package.
Yes, I know I have it and had already looked in it for delectasti or any root of that. I don't know Latin, but I know French and Hebrew and can work my way around figuring out endings given a good grammar. But I was looking for the easy way out with an interlinear or parallel resource, and didn't quite know how to set that up in Logos with the different versifications. Thanks to the others who answered that question. I should no longer have any such stupid questions after I complete the Logos MP Seminar in Seattle over the next couple of days. Yeehaw!!
Alan Macgregor said:A basic grasp of Latin is very useful in Patristics, since many of the original texts were written in Latin (eg Augustine, Anselm et al.).
...
I am not fluent, but I can translate from Latin into English with the help of a dictionary, though I find English into Latin far harder. (I use Logos edition of Harper-Collins Collins Latin Dictionary and Grammar.
I know, I know. I've always wanted to gain a basic grasp of Latin, but have never gotten around to it. I've studied French (lots), Greek (only one semester), Hebrew (one year), and Russian (one year) formally, and picked up bits of German and Italian on my own using language learning software. But have never done any Latin, to my shame. It would probably be easy for me at this point given all I already know of other languages.
Alan Macgregor said:In addition, if you are at all proficient in Greek, then Latin is not too dissimilar in grammatical structure. There are five noun declensions and four verb conjugations. There is one more noun case the Ablative, but the verb is much easier than in Greek.
Alas, I'm not at all "proficient" in Greek. I studied one semester of classical Greek in college over 25 years ago and have forgotten all of it except the alphabet, a few dozen words, and the very useful phrase "To ployon plei pros tas Athenas" ("The ship is sailing towards Athens.") I might not even have that grammar right, and certainly can't remember how to spell it in Greek letters. Google Translate (for modern Greek) translates that English back to "Το πλοίο πλέει προς την Αθήνα." Oh well.
Alan Macgregor said:Take your time and you will enjoy it.
Time? What's that? I just lost another hour of what meager time I had when we switched to Daylight Savings.
Alan Macgregor said:Festina lente, puella!
I knew "lente" from French & Spanish, but I had to use the Latin Translator to figure the rest of that out. Pretty nice site, that. Just discovered it!
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MJ. Smith said:
delectasti think delectable, delight (who needs Latin ) http://www.medievalist.net/psalmstxt/ps91.htm
I guessed as much but wanted to be sure, and wanted to use this question as an excuse to get to know Logos better.
MJ. Smith said:Parallel Latin/English Psalter
______________________________ ______________________________ Psalmus 91 (92)
Psalm 91 (92)
5 Quia delectasti me Domine in factura tua et in operibus manuum tuarum exultabo 5 For thou hast given me, O Lord, a delight in thy doings: and in the works of thy hands I shall rejoice. Yes, I did figure that out after trying randomly to add/subtract one from the chapter and verse number.
Todd Phillips said:You can also link the Vulgate and an English bible, then enter your reference in the reference box for the Vulgate and it will sync to the corresponding verse in the English:
Thanks, Todd. That's exactly what I needed!
Damian McGrath said:Obviously, a "psalm beginning Delectasti" will not refer to Psalm 91. The translation is slightly faulty, Dante says simply "But the Psalm Delectasti brings light which can uncloud your mind" - magnificent turn of phrase....
Thanks. Yes, I puzzled about that, too. I know that the psalms are often called by the words they begin with, so this one threw me for a major loop. Shame on Mandelbaum for his mistranslation. Looks like he cribbed it from James Innes Minchin's 1885 translation (public domain):
Mandelbaum:
...light to clear your intellect
is in the psalm beginning 'Delectasti.'Every single word in bold is exactly the same as in the Minchin translation, just different word order.
Anybody know why this psalm might be known by words that are not right at the beginning of it? Maybe it's just Dante taking poetic license, since this list of Latin incipits calls this one Bonum est confiteri domino.0 -
Rosie Perera said:
Anybody know why this psalm might be known by words that are not right at the beginning of it? Maybe it's just Dante taking poetic license,
Without doubt, he's taking license here. He's also demonstrating his intimate knowledge of the psalms.
Psalm 91 has always been used once a week at morning prayer - originally on Fridays, later on Saturdays (it is the Sabbath Psalm and is recited in Synagogues on the Sabbath, I believe).
For those familiar with the monastic recitation of the psalms in Latin, that one word would be enough to bring the psalm to mind.
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Dante is referring to Psalm 91 (LXX).
There is a chance that he refers to Psalm 29 (LXX, Vulgate) which contains "delectasti" in the "first verse" - but the context doesn't seem to fit the meaning...
ad Jesum per Mariam,
Taylor Marshall0
