Encyclopedia of Ancient Greek Language and Linguistics

I gave up on it. First, it was funded, then they re-calculated back to 50% funded. Slight adjustment. My guess, they need it to stay competitive in academic.

But I re-enlisted ... thanks for the reminder.

Useful-wise, like the etymo-dictionary, I'd think you'd need to enjoy language development. Greek is sort of like chinese, latin, and english. They spread by utility, and adjusted along the way.  The Biblical scholar portrait, I think is largely naive (just read the Zondervan James commentary). For the bulk of participants, greek would have been a 2nd language and barely understandable, theology-wise.

Actually, I really prefer the Brill hebrew one  ... maybe they're moon-walking the expensive Brill references, one at a time.

So how fast do you read, Denise? I get the impression that you read a book faster than it downloads to your computer and then if you didn’t like it you return it.

Maybe sharing  a technique or two on speed reading would be great 👍😁👌

DAL

Liam Maguire said:

Denise said:

The Biblical scholar portrait, I think is largely naive (just read the Zondervan James commentary). For the bulk of participants, greek would have been a 2nd language and barely understandable, theology-wise.

Hi Denise, this is an interesting point you raise. If you have time, could you unpack it a bit more, please? If it is too off topic feel free to message me on Faithlife.

Greek.

I'll tippy-toe across the theological mine-field. But we're all familiar with a 1st language, vs a 2nd. The latter struggles are so predictable, you can guess the 1st language. We go across Asian languages constantly. When they arrive in English, Japanese make different errors than Chinese or Korean. You can easily see the pattern on Amazon marketing texts. Of course, my Japanese is similar.

And religious concepts are far worse. A local couple helped translating in Mongolia ... the earlier translations had too much Buddhist-sounding words. Different meanings. They arrived here, to do the same in Navajo (tribe), where the words strongly overlap the spirit-world. I smiled; good luck on that.  So also the tribes south of us.

Similarly, the Roman empire was a conglomeration of misplaced slaves, commerce, and older villages, older languages. So, just how exact can a translation be? How touchy a theological concept? And the end-time was immediate ... no NT, no nesting pastors, etc. If you presume Divine guidance (Holy Spirit), you have to assume 'in the ball park' was workable. Who thinks Paul's Romans made any sense? To who?

When Christianity arrived in the Rio Grande valley (southwest US) in the 1600s, the first idea was to teach in the local language. That fell apart quickly, because there were so many languages just miles apart, and few knew each.  So, they switched  gears and tried to teach Spanish. That worked decently well, but only for the most basic of ideas to be communicated.

When Jesus said 'saved', have you checked 'saved from what' in the actual text? When Jesus demanded they recognize God, weren't these Jews?? So, another meaning? When you read 'Christian', followers of Jesus or the Annointed? Or did you notice the difference? Spirit ... what do you think that means? Exactly?  In the 1st century? How?

Then, you finally arrive at greek. Perfect greek (several of the writings). And watch, as the Protestant (mainly) scholars try to rationalize. Really? And once you have your perfect greek, who for? What group demanded/appreciated lovely greek? Really?

A last example, I previously mentioned years back. Our church is pretty fundamentalist (fundamentals). A night Bible class, an elder leading. A straight-forward text, and an honest question. But each Christian had a completely different understanding. It was amazing. How is that possible? And none too embarrassed, most literally heretical. No problem, in-the-ballpark.

Added: I know folks will try to argue the 3 centuries of greek as 'broad-use'. So, what language were the visiting Jews speaking at Pentecost? And a miracle to do the honors, too.

To further cause everyone pain (dinero), here's a slice discussing the pattern of greek to other languages (baptize, etc).

https://linguistics.ucla.edu/people/Melchert/Melchert%20C._greek%20and%20lycian.pdf 

Using duckduck and the book title, there's several sample pdfs from the volumes. And grinding of teeth at Brill.

My 2 cents, it's now or never, with a 30 day return choice. 

Dale E Heath said:

Robert Neely said:

Just fyi, the Brill Greek Collection was reduced from $499 to $399 this week.

https://www.logos.com/product/53609/brill-greek-reference-collection 

I have ordered, canceled, and reordered a few times. I'm already over my budget and there's a few sale items I'd like this month. Since this is pre-whatever, I can't put it on PP. It'll be interesting to see what I decide.

Will this ever be this cheap again? $399.

I loaned (paid) one of my sons $4,000 yesterday so he could have an operation, so I'm keeping this and a few other items as my gift to myself. My budget is in tatters and being ignored.[A][:(]

I can't find any active links, it's just an image.

Dale E Heath said:

I can't find any active links, it's just an image.

True ... I usually don't do active links from an app into the web (if that's what you're referring to).

Additionally, Jesus' statement, "Surely you will quote this
proverb to me: 'Physician heal yourself (f1avnu~ EpEtTE flOt T~v napa~oA~v TaUTfJV·
'IaTpE, 8EpanEuaov amuTov)" (Luke 4:23), may also suggest that he had some
acquaintance with both Jewish and Greek literature.

This proverb is found in Greek literature, "A physician for others, but himself teeming with sores"
(Euripides [480-406 BCE], Incertarum Fabularum Fragmenta 1086), as well as in Jewish literature,
"Physician, physician heal thine own limp!" (Genesis Rabbah 23:4). Nolland, "Physician," 193-209, shows
surviving parallels of this proverb in classical and rabbinic literature.

Yes, thanks. And my son is doing well.

Dale E Heath said:

Any thoughts on this title? "Linguistics and the Bible: Retrospects and Prospects"

https://www.logos.com/product/184135/mcmaster-new-testament-studies-series

Hopefully MJ or Veli or Ben will see this. 

I don't recommend my opinion. I tend to see linguistics and any of the related areas as expansive (increasing the possibles, not confirming the more narrow). Which runs contra more traditional views of the Bible, and no desire to offend. A quick read of the samples suggest the authors trying to hold on to the traditions, while integrating portions of modern language theory. Many Logosians, however, like Porter et al.

Veli Voipio said:

Greek is a very interesting language, but I think I'll invest mostly into Hebrew from now on.

This volume remains $$ painful, so if you find it a lot cheaper. But it's really a fascinating study in language transmission.  One of his points is that Ugarit is so close to hebrew, but is VERY limited in sampling. Akkadian is more distant, but has a very large corpus to compare.  What is interesting, is the crossover is often not etymological, but idiomatic. That is really fascinating.  I feel geeky reading it, but it's fun.

https://www.amazon.com/Akkadian-Companion-Etymological-Idiomatic-Equivalence/dp/1602801142 

or

https://www.amazon.com/Companion-Etymological-Idiomatic-Equivalence-Supplement/dp/1602801207 

Not to hijack this thread, but I have been considering purchasing Logos’s Discourse Analyses of both OT Hebrew & NT Greek.  I find this concept very interesting and seemingly more practical than much exegetical works that I own.  Con Campbell writes about this burgeoning field in his work on Advances in NT Greek.

Having had a year of Greek and a year of Hebrew (which was wayyyy harder for me than Greek was due to the vowel pointings) I am wanting to put this into action while continuing my original language studies.

Denise—I noted your reference to Ugaritic.  I am considering taking a course in that next through Zondervan’s Master Lectures.  I see references all the time to Ugaritic in Hebrew lexicons and grammars.  But, I am not sure how much practical advantage it would make on my Bible studies (?).  You seem to know a fair amount about this so I just thought I would broach the subject.

Thanks much in advance (perhaps I should start another thread on the topic of Discourse Analysis if there’s interest).

Denise said:

Puddin’ said:

I am not sure how much practical advantage it would make on my Bible studies (?).  You seem to know a fair amount about this so I just thought I would broach the subject.

Ugarit offers two advantages. One is how did they look at things. Absent some inscriptions and leftover buildings, there's not much to use to 'position' "Canaan" and the "Canaanites". City-states, threats, gods to protect, and how religion worked (so also Egyptian and Assyrian). For this, Logos has a nice choice of Ugarit discussions. One aspect I like, is the Phoenician angle (trading) and the problem of helping other allies (similar to Judah/Israel's constant problem).

Language-wise, the problem is much more involved. Certainly Ugarit is interesting, and Logos has some grammars to get your feet wet. But you really need to know hebrew, to appreciate the similarities to Ugarit. Dahood did 3 volumes (Ras Shamra parallels) that match up Ugarit to the OT. Quite often, he stretches, but it's a practical view ... can link to your Bible.

But if you enjoy courses, I'm sure your idea will be valuable to you. Just digging in, is all it takes, to learn an involved area.

Discourse-wise, good luck. The greek, it makes sense. They had an awareness to structuring their meanings, which added more value. Hebrew seems more a modern attempt ... you barely know the word meanings, much less implied intent. And the Logos version looks  automated, each time I've checked. Unimpressed. Emphasis Bible is more practical.

Got it.  The Ras Shamra parallels sound interesting.  Will check into them and the Emphasis Bible.  I think that Ugaritic is only one semester since we’re pretty limited in resources.  Planning to eventually take all of the Semitic courses.

Thanks much👍.