Linux version of Logos Bible Software

Thanks for the quick reply. I'll need to try later - looks like we're facing a fire evacuation around here so I'll need to go offline very soon.

Kevin Moore said:

Hi. I gave Daniel's AppImage script a try using Option 1 (running Linux Mint 20 XFCE). It fails when it tries to run the Logos Installer - warning that it can't find .NET. I tried again allowing it to download and install MONO in case that might change something but it still fails.

My working Wasta-Wine installation has been  fine until I foolishly agreed to allow it to install some updates last week. Now it runs okay, but crashes when I try to access the Library. Does anyone have suggestions to fix that or do I need to reinstall?

Sorry for this.
In your installation of wasta-wine, if you want, run (you can make a backup of your WINEPREFIX directory before it, so you can copy it back in case of fail):

For the 32-bit version:

WINEPREFIX=$HOME/.wine-logos/ wine control

or for the 64-bit version:

WINEPREFIX=$HOME/.wine-logos/ wine64 control

Then go to "Add and Remove Programs", remove LogosBible and use the Install button (which is on the same screen) to install a new version of LogosBible (Logos-x86.msi or Logos-x64.msi) directly (without having to reinstall wine or dotnet, or change your installation).

Glad to hear it's working!

Purist said:

Logos was working perfectly until today. 

I can not help but if you tell us what system you are on, version of Linux and other details those that can help will not need to ask for that information as you will already have provided it.  And welcome to the forums.

You can try the instructions I posted above. It has fixed similar issues.

I have been able to get Logos 8 (Windows) running on Fedora Linux, using Wine, in 64 bit.

<rant>
The developers of Logos 8 need not be afraid of supporting Linux users on Wine, or even distributing Logos 8 packaged to run on Linux natively. (.NET code can run on Mono natively, with full Microsoft support.)

There is nothing about Linux that prevents installation and use of proprietary software. There is absolutely no requirement for source code to be available for every program on a Linux machine. The owner of the machine can, if desired, install a proprietary binary blob of code, without any technical or legal prohibition or impediment. It is up to the owner of the machine to decide. (That's called "freedom.")
</rant>

The following is merely the bare outline of what I did. I'm not attempting to give a detailed "How To" article. (Also, I probably will not answer  questions or help with your installation.)

System:
Fedora release 32 (Thirty Two)
wine-5.17 (Staging)
winetricks-20200412-1
Processor Information
    Socket Designation: SOCKET 0
    Type: Central Processor
    Family: Core i5
    Manufacturer: Intel
    Version: Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-4200M CPU @ 2.50GHz
    Voltage: 1.2 V
    External Clock: 100 MHz
    Max Speed: 2500 MHz
    Current Speed: 2500 MHz
    Core Count: 2
    Core Enabled: 2
    Thread Count: 4
    Characteristics:
        64-bit capable

Comments:

1.  I used Winetricks to install Microsoft's .NET 4.7.2 and 4.8, after a failed attempt to install. (I had set the wineprefix to Windows 10, using the graphical "Wine Configuration" tool.)

1. Run Winetricks from the command line, which will give you great visibility into what's going on under the hood. There are a lot of "fixme" and similar comments, but almost all of them are not going to get in the way of running Logos (even if they sound scary).
2. Ignore the pop-ups and warnings that complain about 64 bit and Mono not being present. If it says "Mono is not present", that is a Good Thing, because it's trying to remove Mono, which is for running .NET natively on Linux and conflicts with the Wine installation of MS .NET (even though MS is the sponsor of Mono).
3. Winetricks will install earlier versions of .NET. I'm not sure if they are required, but I figure the developer had some reason to install them, so let it do what it did.
4. .NET graphical installers will open from time to time. They will complain about not finding an installer program and warn you of mysterious and unstated problems in the future. Ignore and click "Continue". (The Wine peeps fixed that problem a few years ago.)
5. After installing each .NET package, .NET will say you need to reboot. In this situation, that does not mean reboot your machine. it just needs to restart the wineserver. Click the reboot button in the .NET graphical. (I think "Reboot Now" is what it's called, but my memory might be wrong.)
6. After the .NET graphical finishes, the command line will say something like "Running wineserver -w, which will hang until . . . . " Open another command line session and run "wineserver -k", which will kill the extraneous processes and Winetricks will move on.
7. Have patience.

2. Likewise, I installed Logos from the command line: "wine [path\to\LogosSetup.exe]"

1. As mentioned above, I had previously configured the wineprefix to run as Windows 10 (which Faithlife says is a minimum), but somewhere along the way, Winetricks seems to have changed the setting to Windows 7. Logos doesn't complain. (I wonder if the attempted installation of Logos before installing .NET might work better, but since my installation is working, I'm not going to try to figure it out.)
2. My implementation of Wine requires the use of back-slashes, in the style of Microsoft. [shrug]
3. Wine installed the program at ".\.wine\drive_c\users\[username]\Local Settings\Application Data\Logos\Logos.exe" Such location seems odd to me, but perhaps Windows these days installs programs there. Or perhaps the Faithlife peeps put it there to prevent others on the machine or network from running Logos without paying for another license. They gotta make a living, and as the Apostle said, "Don't muzzle an ox when he is treading."

3.  If Logos fails to start from the desktop or your Wine menu, or starts and then immediately closes, run Logos from the command line and look at the command line output for debugging information. If that doesn't work for you, try running in a Virtual Machine, or maybe consider whether your kung-fu level is ready for Logos-on-Linux. (I watched Kung Fu Panda last night. Great flick.)

4.  When running a program designed for Windows, the program may in fact perform like it does on a Windows machine, to wit: needless CPU activity, bloated RAM, and lots of disc activity, all of which make for poor performance. YMMV, depending on how fast your machine is. Mine is old (circa 2014) and slow, so I get what I get. I need to buy a new rig anyway, so that will probably help.

1. The first time you fire up Logos, it will need to download and index the data files. The download is not horrible, but the indexing is very painful. The indexing is greedy for CPU (every CPU core and thread was at 100%) and disc IO. Just be patient and let it run overnight. Fortunately, I have an SSD, which makes the disk I/O much faster.
2. 8GB of RAM is not enough, even without indexing going on. When running Linux natively, 8GB is plenty, so I didn't even have a swap partition. But performance tanked when running Logos 8, so I added a swap partition of 8GB, which made a big difference. I set system swappiness at 20. (Google "linux swappiness"). Probably would have been better to do that before installing.

Good luck.

Happy Trails,

Loye W. Young, OP, JD

>why go through all this trouble.

Because Linux is so much less trouble to use. It Just Works. Essentially, I am willing to trade the inconvenience of an awkward installation procedure for a lifetime of smooth operating.

Further, Linux is significantly more secure, faster, and easier to maintain. If you've never used anything but Windows, you simply don't know how much pain you put up with every day. (My wife uses for remote work a Windows computer that her employer issues her. It is a constant hassle to mess with and wastes hours of time.)

In my particular situation, I live in Dominic, Texas, three miles down a dirt road. (Yes, the Stars at Night really are Big and Bright Deep in the Heart of Texas.) My two choices for Internet access are a 3Mbit/s DSL connection or an 8Mbit/s satellite Internet connection (which is what I use). Linux conserves bandwidth significantly and makes troubleshooting and fixing spotty connections much easier.

I'll stipulate that performance issues for me are partly because I have an old rig, but I just don't need a newer computer if I'm running Linux because Linux is so much more efficient. (I'm thinking about the shiny new ThinkPad from Lenovo, which comes with Fedora Linux pre-installed.)

>a windows specifically for Logos

Yes, I could install a virtual machine of Windows to run on my Linux rig. And Windows does run faster and more smoothly as a VM on Linux than on bare metal.

But that's just another layer of administration I'd have to mess with. The installation and maintenance of the VM would be much more hassle than the Wine installation.

Economics are never not an issue. A permanent installation of Windows as a VM requires paying a license fee to Microsoft, and I just don't want to spend the money on something that is so unstable and insecure.

>Not many people use Linux

As a former computer engineer myself, I've heard that argument before. It turns out to be a red herring. Well-written code is easily ported to Linux, and Linux users almost never need, expect, or even want specialized support for Linux. The problems happen when the program has issues on its own target platform. Programs that don't run well on Linux (and other *nix-like operating systems) also don't run well on their own native platform. Linux is much less lenient about sloppy code, which is one reason why it runs so much better. Thus, Linux simply exposes problems that already exist. A developer who ensures that Logos runs smoothly on Wine will necessarily write better code for Windows-native installations.

My case is instructive. By running Logos in Wine from a command line, I can see if Logos issues deprecated system calls or has other bit-rot problems, even without looking at the Logos source code directly.

Happy Trails,

Loye W. Young, OP, JD

Hey DAL,

Have you ever used Linux? If not, why not make a bootable flash drive and take it for a spin? You'll probably be pleasantly surprised. And, what's more, all that computing niceness is free--free in terms of dollars, and free in other senses as well. Like "free from the mothership" (see, for example, https://www.howtogeek.com/224616/30-ways-windows-10-phones-home/). And "free to configure". "Free from issues"? No, but then nothing is. I've run numerous versions of Windows (since 3.0), and have had to work through my share of issues... :-\

As for "not many people use Linux based on the posts here," there are over 50 pages of posts here. Surely that's some indication of the idea's popularity? Then there's the "uservoice" feature requests (logos.uservoice.com). There was a request with 388 votes to run Logos 4 & 5 on Linux before it was "declined", and a new one to run Logos 8 on Linux with 83 votes. Add those together and that makes it a solid "top 10" feature request.

Be that as it may, those of us who have benefited from the tireless work of the developers who have made this possible are VERY grateful! Celebrate with us. ;-)

Paul Unger said:

I have been running Logos using Rik's installation method. It has worked well, but it doesn't update... (currently running 8.8 SR-1). I've seen a few times recently that Daniel's script is the recommended method. How do I go about running that? Do I have to uninstall "Rik's" before I install "Daniel's"? I have copies of all my index folders, so I'm happy to uninstall and start fresh. Just not sure how to... Advice?

My recommendation is to continue using what is working. The installation script I made, creates independent installations (portable kind) that are useful for testing (as it doesn't affect your current installation). But it's still far from perfect. I had to create a "fast" version for workaround some bugs, and that can work better than the normal version. I'm still having issues with several bugs. What I can say is that we are progressing little by little (baby steps for long walks).

I myself am still not very confident to recommend the installation done with the script I did (I still prefer Rik's one), except for testing. Well, to be fair, there are several people using it as their main installation, including myself. And my hope is that the solution will become more self-sustainable over time.

>Now might not be a good time for people to attempt to switch to Linux.

The conversation topic is not about switching anyone's operating system.

The topic is about installing and running Logos on Linux.

From time to time, the question arises about why one would want to run Logos on Linux, which elicits a response that runs something lke of "Because Linux is awesome." To which, someone else says "No one uses Linux" or "Linux sucks". Flame war ensues. Sooner or later, the name of Hitler is used.

The topic is about installing and running Logos on Linux.. Cat skinning being done in many ways, various methods of installation have been attempted and documented. Over time, everyone is having greater success. The current state of running Logos on Linux is very good. There is cause for rejoicing. Sooner or later, the word "Hallelujah" will be written.

The topic is about installing and running Logos on Linux. 

That figure seems incredible to me... I wonder what the actual user base Logos is? And what is the user base of the forum? Is it being found by people who are searching for the tux mascot?

David Wanat said:

I wonder how many users that breaks down to With multiple visits.

I suppose many are wondering.  I follow the thread because I would love to see Logos on Linux.  My son is using Logos on Windows and got it working on Linux, but there are still issues to be worked out.

No. Nor should there probably be at this point, because (sadly) there are not enough Linux users to make it worth their while. Also, while things are getting a LOT better regarding running Logos on Linux using WINE there are still issues to be worked out. Those matters are being worked on right now, and the future looks good. Were Logos to officially support Linux, the way for them to do that would be with the Appimage method which is currently the officially recommended way to install Logos on Linux.

The only thing which would probably make Logos reconsider supporting Linux is if they wanted to enable users to run Logos on Chromebooks. I suspect that there are many more Chromebook users than general Linux desktop users. The process being worked on now would work for Chromebooks. That's an option for Faithlife folks to consider.

I am trying to install Logos on my PixelBook in the Linux environment.  It looks like you got it working.  Would you mind pointing me to the instructions? 

Thank you!

Rob

Yes, but willing to do anything to try and get logos on there ;-)

Thank you so much.  I am heading to spend some time trying to get this on.  Can't wait!

Rob Perry said:

Everything went as documented.  When I start Logos I get the attached picture. It is the control panel.  I see Logos is installed.  It might be that an environment variable is not set.  If you have any ideas, shoot them my way.  Thanks so much everyone!

...

You can remove the LogosBible_Linux_P folder in your $HOME, then:

Please try again using the fast_install_AppImageWine_and_Logos.sh script, as there are still some bugs in both wine and winetricks that in some cases make this kind of bug appear.

Rob Perry said:

That did it!  Everything is installed and I can move about.  Indexing starts and causes a windows 'system error must close'     I believe I saw others mention this so I will go and research how people got through it.

You can try the index without running the LogosBible with:

And if you want to use the Frank Sauer workaround:$ ./Logos.sh indexing

$ ./Logos.sh removeAllIndex

If you want one link to your LogosBible dir inside the wineBottle to make manual changes (like backup before update):$ ./Logos.sh indexing

If you want one shortcut LogosBible.desktop in your ${HOME}/.local/share/applications (many linux distribution use it to add it on the apps menu):
$ ./Logos.sh dirlink

$ ./Logos.sh shortcut<br />

Has anyone else come across updates to libsdl2 that wants to remove Wine in order to update? Can't update or remove it to reinstall without removing Wine.

Daniel Ribeiro da Silva said:

Frank Sauer said:

Has anyone else come across updates to libsdl2 that wants to remove Wine in order to update? Can't update or remove it to reinstall without removing Wine.

This is one package with Dependency Conflict.

Since you didn't posted the error message here, I'll just give one reference to a short Debian guide on how to resolve this type of issue:

http://books.msspace.net/mirrorbooks/linuxcookbook/0596006403/linuxckbk-CHP-3-SECT-13.html

There was no error message. I have the normal updates available notification. The two libsdl2 files that there are updates for notify me when I select them for update, that Wine will have to be removed to update the libsdl2 files.

I'm dual booting Ubuntu and Windows, and I was wondering if there's any possibility of installing Logos on both Windows and Linux.  I'd want it on Linux because that's the operating system I use most often, and I'd want it on Windows as well in case I ever need to do something that doesn't work on either the Linux version or the Web App (like some media). 

I have successfully installed two separate versions of Logos on Linux and Windows, but since they were completely separate, they wouldn't sync any updated data or notes or anything, and they together took up more space than I would like on my hard drive (twice the normal size of the Logos folder). 

I also tried installing Logos through WINE on an external hard drive (ultimately, I would have wanted it on a D drive on my computer accessible in both operating systems, but my D drive was too small at the time) and got it to work on Linux, but when I tried opening it on Windows, it said that the some documents required the latest version of Logos (following some instructions I found on this forum, the Logos installer wasn't the most up-to-date). 

So now my thoughts are that the most ideal way to do it would be to have two Logos folders on a D drive available in both Linux and Windows, but to have it somehow share the same data folder (and any other folders that might be necessary, like the Documents folder).  That way, I could run Logos in either Linux or Windows without having to store all my data twice for each version of Logos.  I just don't know how or even if it's possible to get Logos to use an alternate path to a data folder.  Does anyone have any ideas?  Like some script that could redirect a ./Data query from the main Logos folder to ../LogosData/Data?  Or maybe somehow replace the Data folder in both Logos installations to some other Logos Data folder that would contain the data shared by both versions of Logos?  Does anyone know if this would be possible?  Or does anyone have any better ideas for how to install Logos on both Linux and Windows?

Paul Unger said:

I'm getting persistent crashes for LogosIndexer.exe for a while now... I've been thinking about updating (I'm still running Logos 8.8 in WINE 4.18 and it won't update on its own), and figure this is as good a time as any, but not quite sure how to go about it. I used Rik's method when I first installed Logos (the instructions on the Google doc page). There are also "beta instructions" for updating Logos. Is that my best bet?

I would definitely recommend updating Wine, a lot of fixes have been completed that greatly enhance the Logos experience on Linux.

In relation to what's best...

Depends - if your only issue is the indexer crash, you can try the solution I posted previously for those types of issues. Clear out the index folders and library catalog folders if there are more files than a clean install. This usually works for the issue with the indexer it seems you are experiencing. There were issues with indexing in earlier versions of Wine, so that could be the needed solution for your indexer issue as well.

For updating Logos, there is a major bug that needs to be fixed right now. Updating through the application has been deleting all downloaded resources - so the work around has been to download the executable and upgrade by that means. So far no deleting of resource with that method.

Paul Unger said:

Frank Sauer said:

I would definitely recommend updating Wine, a lot of fixes have been completed that greatly enhance the Logos experience on Linux.

OK. There are instructions in the Google doc for updating Wine (bottom of p. 7), but the preamble ends with a dire warning... Is there another method I should try? Recommended version?

Paul, I have been in contact with Daniel who is leading the bug stomping effort.... there are a few problems with newer versions of wine as well (some regressions, etc.) The main effort is to try and get 64bit Logos to work with wine since we know Faithlife will drop 32bit support sometime in the somewhat near future.

As you have noted, some updates I made to wasta-logos-setup a few months back moved from .NET 4.7.2 to .NET 4.8 which installs much faster and didn't have negative side effects. But as there are some issues with newer wine I have played it "conservative" not moving wine versions for the wasta process until we are more confident it is an improvement.

So, in summary indeed wine in wasta-logos-setup is an older version, and as you note there are occasional (even frequent) indexer challenges, but eventually it seems to work for most people.

NOTE for updating Logos itself I made some quick edits to the guide you reference. In short, you can re-run wasta-logos-setup (effectively what was recommended by others: updating "outside" of Logos itself) withOUT deleting the current wine install, and it will upgrade you to Logos 8.13. I haven't put a newer version in wasta-logos-setup yet but if you manually download a newer version and place it in your Downloads folder (named Logos-x86.msi), then run wasta-logos-setup it will use it (the one in Downloads) instead of version 8.13. So you can again always run wasta-logos-setup with a newer version of the installer in Downloads to update Logos.

Make sure you backup first if you don't want to re-download everything. However, we have noted that certain Logos upgrades required re-downloading ALL resources again regardless, so be prepared for internet use, but it should work in the end.

Once Daniel feels things have stabilized I can incorporate the newer wine version into the wasta-logos-setup process, will likely move to 64bit Logos, and will clean up the documentation as well, but again I am taking a back seat to Daniel's excellent efforts.

If you want to be more experimental with newer wine versions, etc. then check out Daniel's "AppImage" approach. It may use lower CPU, etc., and if you have the time he may appreciate further testing. The most responsive way to get feedback is through the Telegram channel: https://t.me/linux_logos

Good Luck, keep us posted!

Rik

Rik Shaw said:

So, in summary indeed wine in wasta-logos-setup is an older version, and as you note there are occasional (even frequent) indexer challenges, but eventually it seems to work for most people.

...

Once Daniel feels things have stabilized I can incorporate the newer wine version into the wasta-logos-setup process, will likely move to 64bit Logos, and will clean up the documentation as well, but again I am taking a back seat to Daniel's excellent efforts.

Thanks for the update, Rik. I was just composing a message about having been at this Linux thing for a while, and being really pleased when it works, but once again finding myself up against the wall of "not-really-knowing-what-I'm-doing-but-only-having-instructions-that-assume-I-do"... I was at the point of having a look at Daniel's "script", just so see if I could make that work for me, but got hung up on step 00:

00- Download and execute:

You can download the last release [HERE].

Well, I didn't find anything obvious HERE, but there are four "Assets" at the bottom of the page. I had no idea what to download, but after looking at some of the command line stuff I figured it was "install_AppImageWine_and_Logos.sh". I still had no idea what to do with it...

So it's good to know that a more stable update is in the works. I will continue on with Wine 4.18 and wait for an update to 64bit. And if you're cleaning up the documentation, could you /please/ assume that some of us are starting from "itch" (i.e., one step before starting from "scratch")? E.g., "Download *this* file to *this* directory. Open a terminal and *change directory* (if required) and run *this* command," etc. Your help is enormously appreciated!

As for my install, I have Logos up and running again (had to download 3.9 GB of my 20 GB of resources...), but indexing is still throwing errors. I'll see if any of the workarounds work.