I'm curious (and a bit concerned) about the direction Logos may be going in publishing...

When browsing through books sorted by price, I ended up coming across a few books by a modern-day ghost hunter. I thought that was kind of odd.

Turns out, Logos has 10 books written by Hans Holzer, including Poltergeists, Stay-Behinds, Psychic Photography: The Visual Proof.

About the Author

Hans Holzer, whose investigations into the paranormal took him to haunted houses and other sites all over the world, wrote more than 140 books on ghosts, the afterlife, witchcraft, extraterrestrial beings, and other phenomena associated with the realm he called “the other side.” Among his famous subjects was the Long Island house that inspired The Amityville Horror book and film adaptations. Holzer studied at the University of Vienna, Austria, and at Columbia University, New York, earning a master’s degree in comparative religion. He taught parapsychology at the New York Institute of Technology. Holzer died in 2009.

Then I did a search for "ghosts" and was surprised to find that there is a lot more (over 500)!

Ghosts of the Carolinas for Kids

Ghosts of Acadia

Haunted Las Vegas: Famous Phantoms, Creepy Casinos, and Gambling Ghosts

Vineyard Supernatural: True Ghost Stories from America's Most Haunted Island

A little more searching finds quite a few troubling titles that are you certainly would not expect to find in Logos:

The Essential Guide to Gay and Lesbian Weddings

The Bitch in Your Head: How to Finally Squash Your Inner Critic

Sun, Sex, and Gold: Tourism and Sex Work in the Caribbean

Sex and the Office

And there are plenty of others, but I think you get the idea.

I understand including controversial books for reference, etc. But these aren't exactly reference books.

It just almost seems like Faithlife has blindly added tens of thousands of ebooks from other publishers without even looking at them.

I guess I always thought Logos was primarily a publisher of Christian books.

I understand perhaps Logos wants to expand their catalog, but wouldn't it have made more sense to have created another site for those? I mean, when I go to Faithlife - site who claims "Faithlife Ebooks is designed specifically to help you grow in the Bible" and search for a book, some of those titles should NEVER come up.

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DAL

I think they provide books for schools also (Textbooks and others), so that might explain why some appear here. But I strongly agree that secular books and school curriculums should be kept in a separate website designed for public schools and colleges.

DAL

DMB

I guess I always thought Logos was primarily a publisher of Christian books.

That would be a true statement ... primarily. But even the 'Libronix' nameplate was to enable a wide variety of digitalized books to be introduced by publishing licencees ... railroad books! Toot-toot!

But the appeaarance on eBooks.FL is part and parcel of dumping truckloads from a publisher, into the system. How much filtering control they have, I don't know.

Now, if I miss my guess, I'd bet Logosian guys (and some gals) would far more likely bless the moon and stars if romance titles disappeared. Those hunky cowboy ones.

DMM

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1220057#Comment_1220057

Yes, I'd be very happy if the romance titles disappeared!

One would think it would be better to have several sites.

Right now they have Logos.com for more scholarly titles and Faithlife for everything else.

Why not reserve Faithlife for Christian living-type books, have another for fiction, another for secular titles, another for children's books, and maybe even another for secular scholarly titles? And then they could be better geared towards their respective audiences.

EastTN

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1220057#Comment_1220057

Now, if I miss my guess, I'd bet Logosian guys (and some gals) would far more likely bless the moon and stars if romance titles disappeared. Those hunky cowboy ones.

A big thumbs up to that. I don't have any objection to romance novels, but I do get tired of scrolling through them all when I'm looking for something else.

NB.Mick

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1220060#Comment_1220060

Yes, I'd be very happy if the romance titles disappeared!

One would think it would be better to have several sites.

Right now they have Logos.com for more scholarly titles and Faithlife for everything else.

Why not reserve Faithlife for Christian living-type books, have another for fiction, another for secular titles, another for children's books, and maybe even another for secular scholarly titles? And then they could be better geared towards their respective audiences.

actually they do. The Faithlife site for the Holzer books says "available at: ebooks.noet.com" which they for some reason retired and now would be https://general.ebooks.faithlife.com/ - Open Road is one of the publishers you'll see there. The Noet brand was geared to a secular audience. I think there was an error which put the ten you saw on the "normal" Faithlife site a well.

Faithlife.com normally is like a Christian bookstore, which does have fiction including romance (not the kind of soft porn you see in secular bookstores though), Christian-living and also real commentaries and bibles from publishers who refuse to contract for Logos editions. You can select genres in the left-hand-side facet filter if you don't care for fiction or cookbooks.

Rosie Perera

Stuff like that sometimes slips through -- it's largely an automated process to absorb new ebooks that publishers make available en masse, but when they are flagged as being questionable, Faithlife removes them. Maybe there should be a more direct way of flagging a book as in questionable taste for a Christian company. However it might be abused by everyone flagging this and that book with a theological bent that they disagree with, and could keep Faithlife staff busy checking up on spurious "false flags" [:)]

SineNomine

Just to clarify, the company is Faithlife; one of their product lines is Logos Bible Software.

MJ. Smith

I understand perhaps Logos wants to expand their catalog, but wouldn't it have made more sense to have created another site for those? I mean, when I go to Faithlife - site who claims "Faithlife Ebooks is designed specifically to help you grow in the Bible" and search for a book, some of those titles should NEVER come up.

Have you never been asked to counsel someone who has experienced a ghost? or are people who have experienced ghosts simply unwilling to admit it to you? I have worded the question that way ever since hearing a paper at an academic folklore conference from a scholar hired by a diocese to explore how much of the clergy had experienced the unexplainable (paranormal) events but were unable/unwilling to share the experience with others for fear of their response.

The counseling resources in Logos appear to cover topics such as "squashing your inner critic" quite thoroughly as well as a myriad of sexual issues. In fact, there are some mega-churches that from the experience of shirt-tail relatives perhaps emphasize psychology self-help over theology. [My sample is admittedly very small and not representative - I draw only a loose inference from it.]

The only title in your list that surprises me is Sun, Sex, and Gold: Tourism and Sex Work in the Caribbean although I suspect Christian counselors specializing in trafficked victims could justify it.

It just almost seems like Faithlife has blindly added tens of thousands of ebooks from other publishers without even looking at them.

I don't know what the final contract says, but Faithlife asked us, prior to adding the eBook store, how we felt about their making a large number of books available to use which either were not screened or only lightly screened. There has been more screening than I had expected based on the questions to users.

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1220057#Comment_1220057

I'd bet Logosian guys (and some gals) would far more likely bless the moon and stars if romance titles disappeared.

I dunno .. a while back a prominent forum voice mentioned that his wife was addicted to the romance novels.

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1220060#Comment_1220060

Right now they have Logos.com for more scholarly titles and Faithlife for everything else.

And here I thought they had Verbum.com for the more .....

Justin Gatlin

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1220071#Comment_1220071

I would prefer better filtering to going back to having to search multiple sites to guess how Faithlife categorized something.

skypeace

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1220151#Comment_1220151

...but it just begs the question, "Who you gonna call?"[:)]

JT (alabama24)

When browsing through books sorted by price, I ended up coming across a few books by a modern-day ghost hunter. I thought that was kind of odd.

For clarification: "Logos" doesn't have these, but rather FLEB.

I guess I always thought Logos was primarily a publisher of Christian books.

You are missing the distinction between publisher and bookstore.

I understand perhaps Logos wants to expand their catalog, but wouldn't it have made more sense to have created another site for those?

I agree that it is a bit weird to have them here, and it very well may be accidental. Much of FLEB is automated. FL does have other websites... and these would probably be best sold on those sites. The only legitimate thing I can think of is if any of these resources were used in an academic setting... but I have no knowledge of that.

JT (alabama24)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1220153#Comment_1220153

...but it just begs the question, "Who you gonna call?"

[:D]

Carl Thomas

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1220182#Comment_1220182

Books stores are in the business of selling books. Let them make money.

xnman

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1222217#Comment_1222217

Reading thru this thread reminds me of something I learned in Real Estate years ago... it's called "caveat Emptor" which basically means "buyer beware" (short version)...

“And further, my son, be admonished by these. Of making many books there is no end, and much study is wearisome to the flesh.” (Ecclesiastes 12:12)

We cannot control what any publisher or even FaithLife does.... all we can do is speak with our money... and if FaithLife wants to become the type of publisher that support all that "other garbage" ... they will be known for that. I pray that will not be the case with FaithLife.

I still do my due diligence on the books that I buy. I would admonish everyone to do the same.

D. Parker

I recently read through a lengthy post chain about a book that clearly aligned forum readers on one side of the isle - for the book - or the other side - against it. That lead me to doing some research to find the oft quoted post from Bob: Do you want every ebook in the world in Logos?

What do we do with a publisher's catalog that includes everything from academic biography to erotic fiction? The same massive publisher that has Timothy Keller's Reason for God also publishes 50 Shades of Grey.

As some noted in that previously mentioned post, there are many books in the Logos library – maybe even in my own small collection - I would wholeheartedly disagree with, but there they are. However, there is a vast difference between a theology I disagree with or a subject I find uncomfortable yet written to help those dealing with a life I know nothing about and a work of secular fiction or ideology which embraces the idea that every man or woman should do what was right in one’s own eyes. The former at least attempts to draw one closer to God - even if that attempt falls short; while the latter seeks its own ends – wherever that may lead even if that means offending God.

Bob, as a Christian business owner, must run his company the way he feels led by God. We may not like the books Faithlife offers, we might even stop buying their books, but if Bob believes he has/is moving the company God has entrusted to him in the direction God is leading - whether I agree or disagree is not really a factor. The God of the Universe has a much more eternal Profit & Lost system with which Bob and the company must concern himself.

My thoughts to Faithlife, for what they’re worth: it seems to my eyes that Faithlife is trying to live in two worlds. 50 Shades of Grey? Sex and the Office? Really?

There is a company that makes wonderful jelly – their slogan: “With a name like Smuckers, it’s got to be good.” Well, the same hold true with Faithlife. Your name says something about who you are as much as what you sell. So be careful about what you sell.

DMM

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1223525#Comment_1223525

I understand now that they may not have complete control over everything. But this is perhaps why they should have several sites.

They already have the main Logos, Verbum and Faithlife.

Why not have a few other sites that focus mainly on history, another for fiction, and another for everything else - that's where all those questionable titles should go.

And if they are going to carry kids books (which they do), then they really should have a single site for those.

Personally, I think Logos would do very well if they branched out into areas like history and others. I think of all the capabilities it has with researching Biblical topics, and the ability you have to interact with the text is 10000x better than Kindle - these would be amazing for many other subjects.

But they really should separate them. Someone doesn't go to a religious bookstore and expect to see books like that.

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1223527#Comment_1223527

Someone doesn't go to a religious bookstore and expect to see books like that.

I don't think of Logos as a "religious bookstore" -- rather I think at least "ecumenical seminary consortium" and preferably one associated with a major research university and art center. From a blurb on the history of universities:

[quote]All advanced civilizations have needed higher education to train their ruling, priestly, military, and other service elites, but only in medieval Europe did an institution recognizable as a university arise: a school of higher learning combining teaching and scholarship and characterized by its corporate autonomy and academic freedom. The Confucian schools for the mandarin bureaucracy of imperial China, the Hindu gurukulas and Buddhist vihares for the priests and monks of medieval India, the madrasas for the mullahs and Quranic judges of Islam, the Aztec and Inca temple schools for the priestly astronomers of pre-Columbian America, the Tokugawa han schools for Japanese samurai—all taught the high culture, received doctrine, literary and/or mathematical skills of their political or religious masters, with little room for questioning or analysis.This is one reason I am so conservative as to be positively medieval.

Simon’s Brother

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1223527#Comment_1223527

But this is perhaps why they should have several sites.

They did and lots of people complained about having to search multiple sites, no matter what they do they won't please everyone.

Joseph Turner

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1223547#Comment_1223547

But this is perhaps why they should have several sites.

They did and lots of people complained about having to search multiple sites, no matter what they do they won't please everyone.

As others have pointed out, they do still have the different stores/sites, but each product shows up under searches through each store. They do this because before, if one wanted to find a book, he or she would have to search each store for that book, so they changed it to make it easier on searching. Remember, you can always filter the stores by clicking on them in the left search refining panel.

This way of searching is infinitely better than before! I did not enjoy searching every store when looking for something.

GaoLu

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1223529#Comment_1223529

As a part-time counselor who collaborates with many other professional counselors, I am 100% certain that none of them would or ever have consulted any such book mentioned above as a resource for counseling. Perhaps others know some who have?

Yes, if I had a young person who read such a book and was struggling with details from it, I might consult the book. That has never happened to me or anyone I know. Thus, I am skeptical of any counseling value in them and must consider their potential to harm.

Mattillo

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1223563#Comment_1223563

As a part-time counselor who collaborates with many other professional counselors, I am 100% certain that none of them would or ever have consulted any such book mentioned above as a resource for counseling. Perhaps others know some who have?

Yes, if I had a young person who read such a book and was struggling with details from it, I might consult the book. That has never happened to me or anyone I know. Thus, I am skeptical of any counseling value in them and must consider their potential to harm.

Agreed.

xnman

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1223563#Comment_1223563

As a part-time counselor who collaborates with many other professional counselors, I am 100% certain that none of them would or ever have consulted any such book mentioned above as a resource for counseling. Perhaps others know some who have?

Yes, if I had a young person who read such a book and was struggling with details from it, I might consult the book. That has never happened to me or anyone I know. Thus, I am skeptical of any counseling value in them and must consider their potential to harm.

Well said! Amen!

skypeace

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1223569#Comment_1223569

I am not concerned about the direction of Logos as for me it is a digital Bible and Bible Study Tool. If it should turn off the path of The Way I would replace it with something else and keep on moving. Loved the NIV84, but its later revisions are not for me. Love the HCSB but not the CSB. I avoid red light districts virtually and in real life unless I am specifically on a mission.

Gary Osborne

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1223563#Comment_1223563

As a part-time counselor who collaborates with many other professional counselors, I am 100% certain that none of them would or ever have consulted any such book mentioned above as a resource for counseling. Perhaps others know some who have?

Yes, if I had a young person who read such a book and was struggling with details from it, I might consult the book. That has never happened to me or anyone I know. Thus, I am skeptical of any counseling value in them and must consider their potential to harm.

Bingo! And I’m not even Catholic. [:P]