Manuscripts, Roots and Lemmas?
Okay all you language teachers out there, I have a question that (probably) has a simple answer.
In Logos 5 in several places (i.e. the reverse interlinear, right clicking on a word, etc) there is the option to see the manuscript form, lemma form and root form. If I remember correctly L4 only had manuscript and lemma and did not have root.
I don't have any formal training in Greek or Hebrew so please forgive the naïveté of my question, but as I understood it manuscript meant how a word appears in that particular instance while lemma was the root word that the manuscript form derived from. I remember reading somewhere that I should base all my searches, word look ups, etc. off the lemma.
If that's the case, my question is, what is the difference then between a lemma and a root? And when would I use one or the other for in depth study?
I appreciate your help.
Ryan
Comments
Hey Ryan!
A Lemma would be the actual word itself as found in the text. So for example, Logous (word in the nominative plural) is called the manuscript. It's what the Bible has. The Lemma for Logous is Logoc (the Lexical form of the word). The root is Log - it's the basic part of the word that gives it it's core meaning. There are other words that use Log as a root such as the verb logo (I speak - active). Think about the word button, for example. In a sentence you might say "I love biological studies." The manuscript would be "biological" because that's what the text says. The Lemma would be "biology." That what the word is before any endings to make it take its role in the sentence. The root would be "bio." Now biology doesn't exactly mean the same thing as bio does it? One means life while another means the study of life. Think of all the other words with "bio" in them. For example, "biochemical" and "biography." These words do not mean the same thing! But they share the root "bio" because they all have to do with "life" in one form another. That's the idea of a root.
So the root is even beyond the Lemma or Lexicon form of the word. It's why that specific word has it's meaning.
So:
Manuscript - what appears in the Greek Bible including all it's forms.
Lemma - what the word looks like before it's inflected to have it's place in the sentence.
Root - the core part of the word that gives it meaning. The root typically has lots of other words that add pre-fixes or suffixes to gain additional shades or meaning or uses in the system.
Does that jive?
Hey Ryan!
A Lemma would be the actual word itself as found in the text. So for example, Logous (word in the nominative plural) is called the manuscript. It's what the Bible has. The Lemma for Logous is Logoc (the Lexical form of the word). The root is Log - it's the basic part of the word that gives it it's core meaning. There are other words that use Log as a root such as the verb logo (I speak - active). Think about the word button, for example. In a sentence you might say "I love biological studies." The manuscript would be "biological" because that's what the text says. The Lemma would be "biology." That what the word is before any endings to make it take its role in the sentence. The root would be "bio." Now biology doesn't exactly mean the same thing as bio does it? One means life while another means the study of life. Think of all the other words with "bio" in them. For example, "biochemical" and "biography." These words do not mean the same thing! But they share the root "bio" because they all have to do with "life" in one form another. That's the idea of a root.
So the root is even beyond the Lemma or Lexicon form of the word. It's why that specific word has it's meaning.
So:
Manuscript - what appears in the Greek Bible including all it's forms.
Lemma - what the word looks like before it's inflected to have it's place in the sentence.
Root - the core part of the word that gives it meaning. The root typically has lots of other words that add pre-fixes or suffixes to gain additional shades or meaning or uses in the system.
Does that jive?
Wow Alexander thank you ,you have opened my eyes,
Blessings in Christ.
A just to clarify, can a word be based on more than one root? I thought it could but I may be wrong.
The NT analysis in Logos has multiple roots for compound words. So αγαθοποιεω "to do good" has two roots, αγαθος ("good") and ποιεω ("to do"). I don't recall the exact representations of the root, but you get the idea.
Rick Brannan
Data Wrangler, Faithlife
My books in print
I was taught a lemma is the word you would likely find in the dictionary. The variations on that word are what is in manuscript.
A just to clarify, can a word be based on more than one root? I thought it could but I may be wrong.
Rick answered the question about one word coming from multiple roots.
But to clarify one thing you said. A lemma itself can be found in the manuscript, in addition to the inflected forms of the lemma. For a verb, the present active indicative first person singular form is the lemma (generally speaking); and that form itself can be used in the text. For a noun, it's the nominative singular form that is the lemma. And so on for other parts of speech which can be inflected.
Donnie
i found this post. thanks it was helpful. but for your info the root of logous is not log but lego or is Greek it is λεγω
Yes - I am new to Logos at 70 years old. (Logos 10 Gold)
Lemma vs Manuscript:
Can I trust a Greek lemma defination to always be correct for all of the associated manuscript versions?
-OR-
Can there be different manuscript definatons associated with the same Greek Lemma?
Thank you very much for your help!
Keith
'Always be correct' ... lemma definitions. As applied, not necessarily.
Lemmas, yes; most errors corrected.
Lemma definitions are largely a scholarly consensus ... time and place. As in english today.
And yes, greek manuscript (usage) varies per lemma (as is true for all languages). Requires judgement, background, and often 'you had to be there'.
Thank you very much for responding. I understand and appreciate your answer.
With a 'mouse click' on a word in the bible, it is easy (from a pop up window) to do a 'Bible Word Study' on the lemma. However, the only way I have found to do further study and find all occurances of the greek manuscript word, is to do a copy and paste the manuscript word into 'Search'.
Am I missing an easier/better way to do a find and study of the manuscript words?
Happy Thanksgiving & Thanks
Keith
May I ask you why you want to do a Bible word study on a manuscript word? It is the equivalent of doing separate word studies on hat, hats, hat's and hats'. If I understand why you want to do so, then I'll be better able to tell you how to get the information. For example, are you wanting to do a Bible word study on each sense (meaning) of the lemma?
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
Great question. It is very possible my understanding is incorrect.
I believe a lemma can be translated into different english words, in the same bible and in other translations.
(Not always different forms of 'hat'.) E.g. The LEB Mark 4.39 Lemma for 'Be silent" is φιμόω.
But this Lemma (φιμόω) is translated muzzle in 1 TI 5:18. Although it is similar, it is not the same.
This lemma is also referenced in 7 verses.
The manuscript word is πεφίμωσο. It is only used once in Mark 4:39.
There are other manuscript greek words that are used mutiple times in various scriptures. I would feel more confident that these (not lemmas) should carry the exact same english meaning.
For this reason, I was thinking that the highest assurance of Greek words sharing the exact english defination would be between the manuscript Greek word. not the lemma.
Thank you very much for any way you can help me understand.
Keith
For this reason, I was thinking that the highest assurance of Greek words sharing the exact english defination would be between the manuscript Greek word. not the lemma.
I don't know of any review, that tries to track 'form' or 'inflection' (manuscript) to 'sense' (translation) in terms of how well it exactly matches across usage. Although, when you're reading an english translation (as an example), you quickly identify errors in form, and less often, word choice (lemma). In fact, you can often guess a person's 1st language from errors in form (there's no one-to-one language correspondence). You see that frequently in import product manuals.
Regarding your question, an easier way to at least 'watch' manuscript or form, not really. And you're right, 'form' has the key information; not lemma (an argument can go off the rails, caused by an error in form). Of course, verbal 'stress' is even worse. That's why 'discourse' information is also good.
The closest you'll get in Logos, is in an analytical lexicon (Logos has many) like Friberg's, where sense is followed by forms and grammar (not the reverse). But that's not too helpful to you. Search is your friend; I do it routinely (manuscript form). I rarely use the BWS; sense is too often misleading or a guess.
Yes - I am new to Logos at 70 years old. (Logos 10 Gold)
Lemma vs Manuscript:
Can I trust a Greek lemma defination to always be correct for all of the associated manuscript versions?
-OR-
Can there be different manuscript definatons associated with the same Greek Lemma?
Thank you very much for your help!
Keith
The root word is a basic word from which other words are developed. Root words are usually verbs, from which a noun, adverb, and adjective could be derived. In addition root words can have prefixes and suffixes attached to them to alter their meaning. In a sense there is a family of words that spring from a single root word.
A lemma is the base stem of a particular form of a root word. Each word that springs from a root word would have a different lemma, or lexical form.
Here is an example from the root word 'faith' in Greek:
Based on the root verb, the noun, faith, occurs, and also other nouns (unbelief, poverty of faith), adjectives (faithful, unbelieving, of little faith, genuine), and other verbs (disbelieve, show oneself faithful) built on the basic stem of faith.
Pastor, North Park Baptist Church
Bridgeport, CT USA
Literally the best answer to help anyone with no knowledge whatsoever of this.