Ishmael’s Descendants Resource?
I’m quite curious about & looking for an academically solid work that factually traces the Muslim faith back to the Abraham/Hagar narrative in Genesis (if this is indeed the case).
Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated👍.
Comments
-
Not even the Muslims can trace the prophetic line. Jay Smith has outlined it in this video:
FAQ-49: Where does Islam's Prophetic line come from? - YouTube
0 -
Jan Krohn said:
Not even the Muslims can trace the prophetic line. Jay Smith has outlined it in this video:
But they do claim it, yes?
Are there any resources that show why they claim it?Macbook Air (2024), Apple M2, 16gb Ram, Mac Sequoia, 1TB storage
0 -
Jan Krohn said:
Not even the Muslims can trace the prophetic line.
Sort of .... it depends on what you accept as evidence and who you accept as evidence. Assuming that you accept evidence that is appropriate to the time. The Quran, Hadiths, early biographies of Muhammad all provide pieces of the evidence. Search sites that are Islamic for references and ignore the Christian "apologetics" sites. Once you have gathered the "pro" data you can begin evaluating its value; if you begin with the evaluation you are simply going through an exercise to confirm your prejudices (literally pre-judging)
A quick google search for some starting points:
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
0 -
Well, I don’t want to violate forum rules by discussing theological issues, but I will just briefly state that one question that keeps rolling around in my mind is—who are the “children of the bond woman” that Paul refer to in Galatians?
We know that Islam wasn’t even an issue in his day—albeit he does seem to be speaking prophetically (which, of course, could then account for an Islamic reference I suppose).
MJ’s last link-article is very meticulous & spot-on from what I’ve read so far. I’m aware that Mohammed claimed direct lineage from Ishmael but just looking for some solid evidence (if there is any).
Appreciate the info. so far. Looks like this is more involved than I realized.
0 -
-
Good paper Christian. Much appreciated👍🏻.
Going to look into a timeline graph using AI just for grins & giggles.
0 -
If you have access to the Church Fathers, Sozomen (A History of the Church in Nine Books, Book 6 chapter 38) mentions that the Saracen tribe came from Ishmael.
[quote]It appears that the Saracens were descended from Ishmael, the son of Abraham, and were, in consequence, originally denominated Ishmaelites. As their mother Hagar was a slave, they afterwards, to conceal the opprobium of their origin, assumed the name of Saracens, as if they were descended from Sara, the wife of Abraham. Such being their origin, they practise circumcision like the Jews, refrain from the use of pork, and observe many other Jewish rites and customs. If, indeed, they deviate in any respect from the observances of that nation, it must be ascribed to the lapse of time, and to their intercourse with neighbouring nations.
Josephus (Antiquities 1, 220–21) and the pseudopigraphia Book of Jubilees 20.12 say that the Arabs came from Ishmael.
I don’t say this is proof of course. But the belief seems to predate Islam. So, for what it’s worth.
WIN 11 i7 9750H, RTX 2060, 16GB RAM, 1TB SSD | iPad Air 3
Verbum Max0 -
David Wanat said:
If you have access to the Church Fathers, Sozomen (A History of the Church in Nine Books, Book 6 chapter 38) mentions that the Saracen tribe came from Ishmael.
[quote]It appears that the Saracens were descended from Ishmael, the son of Abraham, and were, in consequence, originally denominated Ishmaelites. As their mother Hagar was a slave, they afterwards, to conceal the opprobium of their origin, assumed the name of Saracens, as if they were descended from Sara, the wife of Abraham. Such being their origin, they practise circumcision like the Jews, refrain from the use of pork, and observe many other Jewish rites and customs. If, indeed, they deviate in any respect from the observances of that nation, it must be ascribed to the lapse of time, and to their intercourse with neighbouring nations.
Josephus (Antiquities 1, 220–21) and the pseudopigraphia Book of Jubilees 20.12 say that the Arabs came from Ishmael.
I don’t say this is proof of course. But the belief seems to predate Islam. So, for what it’s worth.
Okay—Will look into these resources.
There does appear to be an accumulated consensus amongst academics that Islam does indeed trace back to Ishmael. Similarly, ChatGPT also traces Islam back to Ishmael (FWIW).
Thank you again.
0
