Official: You Can Now Get Early Access to the Next Version of Logos

Thinking through is not an actual answer, nor is just asking for feedback. Whether the option to continue purchasing upgrades as we always have been able to since the Libronix to L4 days is an essential for some. If that some is a minority that Logos is now going to look past, we need to know that now and it should have been investigated and input sought prior to a subscription based model plan being set in stone. Why? Some may be purchasing resources and upgrades that they otherwise may not if the future is subscription based features only.

I'm a bit confused by this. One of the main purposes of this announcement is to "investigate and seek input" prior to making any decisions that will impact whether you'll be able to buy a feature set in the future or only subscribe to one. We're trying to be open and transparent while also listening to feedback. The downside of that is that some decisions won't be made until we've heard that feedback. I understand the desire for clarity, but I think it's the right thing to listen to our customers before we make big decisions.

Maybe your initial post is a bit confusing, as the intial paragraphs seem to hint towards the next release of Logos being a subscription based platform and speaks of those not opting for a subscription still having their resources, but not the new and improved features.... That sounds like a decision made to move away from the traditional option and yes, you left a vague last paragraph possibly leaving the door open.... But as others have said, Logos has had some bad choices in the past that were corrected to some level or ignored on some levels pertaining to business model changes.... So, historically, I'm not sold on Logos not dropping the traditional and then possibly "making it right" if enough owners complain. Thus, my statement that some sort of customer survey should have been accessed prior to what sounds like an already decided path forward (based on those first paragraphs)

If we already paid for a feature and it gets improvements - will the updated feature only be available to those who subscribe? If so, doesn't that punish early adopters as you mentioned???

If we update an L8 feature (for example), those improvements are likely to be available only to people who subscribe (or who purchase an upgrade, if we offer that), especially if those improvements significantly enhance the feature. There will be exceptions to that, but that will be the general rule. I don't think that harms early adopters who will have had at least four years of great value out of the feature, and may well have many more.

I think it would punish early adopters if we sold a new feature, and then six or twelve weeks later offered a better version.

L8 was a while back, what about updates to the L10 Feature Sets? These are the questions that exist that there are no defined answers for, that are concerning to some of us.... If there is doubt that L10 Feature sets will not be upgraded for free in this process with the coming release, it should be made clear now, so people that haven't bought it yet or are considering buying it, know in advance. The unknown and undeclared are the issues here....

This sounds like a poorly planned massive business model change that is being handled on the fly, with things like these questions not being given the energy of predefined answers for eveyone to know what is going on.... Answers that are unknown and possibly based on user response sounds nice, until those on the "wrong" side of user input related decisions feel cast aside and neglected as customers from new to long term if they don't fall in line with the outcome.

Whether features that have been purchased with L10 will be upgrade for free or not, whether the traditional oprtion of purchase will be available or not - these are questions that should have some level of solid stance to coincide with this major announcement,

The original post intended to say, "In the next version of Logos, we're going to be leaning heavily into subscription for these five reasons, but we don't yet know whether we're going to lean into subscription exclusively."

And I completely understand your points about the past. Honestly, that's a big part of the reason why I'm saying, "We're listening before we decide what to do." I don't want to announce a major change without consultation and then have to come back a week later saying, "We got it wrong." I'd much rather say, "This is the roughly the direction we're heading in. But of the things that might change, which are especially important to you?"

That would have been a lot better and helped with some of the issues related to this announcement, but as in my other response, the lack of answers in relation to whether those who just bought the L10 Features with its release or later and whether or not we can continue to have access to traditional, non subscription based upgrade options is a major issue. Being in the middle of the March Madness promo season.... Without answers to these questions, would I want to invest any further into my library without answers to these questions? Yes, we may keep the resources that we purchase, but the answers to those questions may impact one's thoughts on further investing in a library.

Another thing I hope logos considers, is finishing projects that are still out there that people have paid for such as the Lexham context commentary. I’m sure there are others, but logos should really focus on finishing what people have ready paid for before jumping to models need significant resources.

My $0.02

Wow, how did I miss this thread earlier in the day?

For my personal Bible study, I don't need "early access" to new features or a lot of "cloud AI stuff". I just want my Bible study to work, and I want to be in the driver's seat when I decide to upgrade to new features.

I would echo 95% of what Nathan has already expressed so well in this thread. I'm still burned from my experience with Logos Now. It was great to begin with, and then it got abruptly switched to an inferior product and arrangement. I used the generous coupon that was given then, which I am thankful for, to buy all feature sets I was behind on. I will be very reluctant to try a Logos subscription again.

I can appreciate that AI-integration is going to have significant on-going costs. However, I am largely uninterested in it. I want my Bible software to stay up to date, and I don't want to have to pay an arm and leg to keep it that way. I don't want to subscribe for $10 a month and then a few years later be informed that some features are being dropped and I'll have to pay more to keep them or shell out a ton to have permanent access.

I will wait to see how this shakes out before making a final judgment. Knowing Logos, however, I'm sure it will be messy.

Wow, how did I miss this thread earlier in the day?

For my personal Bible study, I don't need "early access" to new features or a lot of "cloud AI stuff". I just want my Bible study to work, and I want to be in the driver's seat when I decide to upgrade to new features.

I would echo 95% of what Nathan has already expressed so well in this thread. I'm still burned from my experience with Logos Now. It was great to begin with, and then it got abruptly switched to an inferior product and arrangement. I used the generous coupon that was given then, which I am thankful for, to buy all feature sets I was behind on. I will be very reluctant to try a Logos subscription again.

I can appreciate that AI-integration is going to have significant on-going costs. However, I am largely uninterested in it. I want my Bible software to stay up to date, and I don't want to have to pay an arm and leg to keep it that way. I don't want to subscribe for $10 a month and then a few years later be informed that some features are being dropped and I'll have to pay more to keep them or shell out a ton to have permanent access.

I will wait to see how this shakes out before making a final judgment. Knowing Logos, however, I'm sure it will be messy.

Indeed. While I've been playing around with AI sites, and I see a use for AI, in general, I'm not that "wowed" by it. I could see where AI could potentially improve my Bible study in a limited sense, but at the moment, I wouldn't pay a monthly or annual fee to have it.

For those who want AI and want to pay a monthly fee for it, they can go for it.

I'd rather give up access to it and simply pay for other new features when I want them on my terms and know my Bible study is going to work when I want it to and not be dependent upon a subscription to ensure my Bible study "just works".

To have other features lumped in with the AI stuff on a subscription is very disappointing.

Here’s my experience. 
in 10 years of use and purchases, I have never lost any functionality or resource that I have paid for. In fact it is all much better than it ever was when I bought it. 
Logos has stayed in business while 2 competitors have gone out of business. 

the forums around these announcements often feel quite ungracious. 

thank you to the team for what you have built. I use it every day, and it helps me teach God’s word better. 
i Will pray for you as you steward the awesome program you have created

Attn Mark Barnes:

I'm still burned from my experience with Logos Now. It was great to begin with, and then it got abruptly switched to an inferior product and arrangement. I used the generous coupon that was given then, which I am thankful for, to buy all feature sets I was behind on. I will be very reluctant to try a Logos subscription again.

Part of the fiasco of the change from Logos Now to Faithlife Connect was the gutting of the program was announced first, then sometime later the compensation to be given to existing subscribers. If the latter had been announced at the same time as the former, it would have prevented a good amount of the ill-will the change produced. This experience should be kept in mind as your roll this change out.

I see the same here like I saw in other software companies. They told us "we need to go to a subscription model to have money for improvements and for bug fixes". I can tell you they all have lied? Non of them had fulfill their promises. All are still full of bugs. 

And that is what I want to tell you: Fix your bugs. I have reported many and they are still there. I really don't beliefe you will fix them more than since. 

I understand to go to a subscription model, for features you also have to pay monthly. But for all other features. NOT. Also I have no understanding to kill features. 

Question:

What is the source code program of this new AI feature? Is it build from the ground up by inhouse Logos' production? Is it borrowing from Gemini? Is it borrowing from ChatGPT?

So over those three releases, we've averaged fixing five older bugs per week. The work is spread out across the team, but we allocate the equivalent of four full-time developers to historic bug fixes on desktop alone.

Another suggestion adjacent to bug fixing: as you are going all-in for AI, consider using it to create resource links for the thousands (millions?) of references in works in your catalogue that presently lack them. That would satisfy me, as a customer, more than just about any new feature I could imagine.