Are we holding ourselves to the highest standards of engagement?

I decided to fully invest in LOGOS back in December with a commitment to learn much more about the underlying details and history behind the Bible. Instead of simply "reading" it, I wanted to "study" it to improve my faith and understanding.

It was a little confusing early on learning the differences between the software, features, datasets, and books. Overall I am very pleased. LOGOS is a great value and believe the offering is very unique. It's hard to imagine what studying the Bible must have been like 20 years ago, but I think this offering allows for someone to understand content from various sources and commentaries without introducing random content which may not be valid using an internet search.

I also believe it is good for us to have access to benefits provided by both non-profits and profit making entities. This is especially true when an organization is well aligned to biblical values. Chicken fast food, BBQ, Christian books, bibles, etc.

I'm not saying LOGOS is perfect but I have utilized their customer service, 30-day guarantee, WiKi page, YouTube site, etc. to draw reasonable conclusions.

All that being said, the forum contributors are not as positive or constructive as they could be. I don't think our engagement is being held to the highest standards. This is not to say that I think all conversation needs to be positive, but only that it should heavily lean towards that effort.

I would ask everyone to smile and think about how to add value to the conversation before posting. I look forward to getting to know everyone better and doing my best to contribute in meaningful ways.

Thanks,

Doug

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Lew Worthington

All that being said, the forum contributors are not as positive or constructive as they could be. I don't think our engagement is being held to the highest standards. This is not to say that I think all conversation needs to be positive, but only that it should heavily lean towards that effort.

I would ask everyone to smile and think about how to add value to the conversation before posting. I look forward to getting to know everyone better and doing my best to contribute in meaningful ways.

Very well said.

MJ. Smith

I would ask everyone to smile and think about how to add value to the conversation before posting.

[Y]

Tyrel

Unfortunately, negative views spread way faster than positive. On the same regard most people that are positiv/logo Logos won’t be on the forum. Unless they have a question. Like a lot of forum; they either people asking for help or vent frustration.

Aaron Hamilton

All that being said, the forum contributors are not as positive or constructive as they could be. I don't think our engagement is being held to the highest standards. This is not to say that I think all conversation needs to be positive, but only that it should heavily lean towards that effort.

I'm glad to hear that your time thus far with Logos has been positive. It is fair as well, however, to point out that it's appropriate to show patience, grace, and even appreciation towards long-time users who are giving negative feedback and sharing concerns. The reality is that this is a time of change for the company and for the software, and change always creates a fair amount of fear and uncertainty. In addition, the leadership of Logos explicitly asked for feedback concerning some major directional shifts, and it is to be expected in my view that a fair amount of the feedback is going to be negative in such a case. I believe that the feedback given (both positive and negative) is highly likely to result in future product offerings that are better suited to meet the needs of their customers. Please keep in mind that even negative feedback is often constructive.

1Cor10 31

Now and then I go back to this quote by John Flavel. I wish I could always have this in front of me.

John Flavel: O study your hearts, watch your hearts, keep your hearts! Away with fruitless controversies and all idle questions; away with unprofitable discourse and bold censures of others, and turn in upon yourselves. O that this day, this hour, you would resolve upon doing so!

If I were to summarize his quote more pithily, it would be:

Avoid Unprofitable & Fruitless

Controversies
Censures
Discourse
Questions

Frank Sauer

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1296526#Comment_1296526

All that being said, the forum contributors are not as positive or constructive as they could be. I don't think our engagement is being held to the highest standards. This is not to say that I think all conversation needs to be positive, but only that it should heavily lean towards that effort.

I'm glad to hear that your time thus far with Logos has been positive. It is fair as well, however, to point out that it's appropriate to show patience, grace, and even appreciation towards long-time users who are giving negative feedback and sharing concerns. The reality is that this is a time of change for the company and for the software, and change always creates a fair amount of fear and uncertainty. In addition, the leadership of Logos explicitly asked for feedback concerning some major directional shifts, and it is to be expected in my view that a fair amount of the feedback is going to be negative in such a case. I believe that the feedback given (both positive and negative) is highly likely to result in future product offerings that are better suited to meet the needs of their customers. Please keep in mind that even negative feedback is often constructive.

Well said!

scooter

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1296526#Comment_1296526

All that being said, the forum contributors are not as positive or constructive as they could be. I don't think our engagement is being held to the highest standards. This is not to say that I think all conversation needs to be positive, but only that it should heavily lean towards that effort.

I'm glad to hear that your time thus far with Logos has been positive. It is fair as well, however, to point out that it's appropriate to show patience, grace, and even appreciation towards long-time users who are giving negative feedback and sharing concerns. The reality is that this is a time of change for the company and for the software, and change always creates a fair amount of fear and uncertainty. In addition, the leadership of Logos explicitly asked for feedback concerning some major directional shifts, and it is to be expected in my view that a fair amount of the feedback is going to be negative in such a case. I believe that the feedback given (both positive and negative) is highly likely to result in future product offerings that are better suited to meet the needs of their customers. Please keep in mind that even negative feedback is often constructive.

Thank you!!

Dave Hooton

I would ask everyone to smile and think about how to add value to the conversation before posting. I look forward to getting to know everyone better and doing my best to contribute in meaningful ways.

This is a significant time for FL and long-time users who have heavily invested in books and features. And there are many other users who have become used to the purchase model and are also invested. So the appeal to users, and the viability of a primarily subscription model is put under critical scrutiny. As "moderators" we appreciate your appeal to balanced contributions and look forward to your continuing participation.

Paul Gibson

I would ask everyone to smile and think about how to add value to the conversation before posting. I look forward to getting to know everyone better and doing my best to contribute in meaningful ways.

I was taught years ago that I shouldn't complain unless I clearly, and gently, explained why I was complaining. If I could suggest a realistic solution to the problem, that was even better. People (and businesses) tend to respond to complains better if there's an explanation and a proposed solution

I've been using Logos nearly six years for personal Bible study, but, like you, I recently decided to dig deeper in my Bible study. I primarily use Logos Mobile, with occasional use of Logos Desktop for things that can't be done in Mobile (e.g. prioritization of resources and creating custom highlights). Logos is a complex piece of software, and it's difficult to learn. I started with Logos 7, and it took me a very long time to realize that when I wanted to search for something, I probably shouldn't start with Search. Factbook will likely be a better starting point, and it'll give me clues on what words or terms would be most effective in my searches.

When I read the announcement about Logos Pro and subscriptions (in early March), I decided to jump in. I upgraded from Logos 10 Starter feature set to Full Feature Set and Logos Pro. Since then, I've been looking at these community forums, the Logos feedback forums, Logos groups on Facebook, Logos webinars and Logos-related YouTube videos. In just two months I've learned a lot about Logos Desktop, and I hope I'm being a positive influence in the Logos community. Rather than getting frustrated about how hard it is to use Logos (particularly Desktop), I'm now giving input on how I think Logos can be improved. That improved my attitude towards Logos, it improved my Bible study time, and it may positively affect future Logos users. Being active in the Logos community is my solution to my Logos complains.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1296590#Comment_1296590

I always appreciate the peacemakers. Regarding tetchy responses on the forums, I'll quote Dass Supperamaniam, who said, "No one can 'make' you angry. You were already angry." There's always a root cause to our behaviours. Maybe this discussion can help people to find that root, and let God deal with it, so we can all just get along and explain our Logos issues, opinions, helps, and comments with much brotherly Love 😍 2¢

Mike Childs

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1296516#Comment_1296516

Doug Yates, you post is well said. I agree completely. Logos has been my primary tool for Bible study and sermon preparation for more than 3 decades now. It has always been a company that is honest and honorable. I have no reason to believe that will change with new management at the top. Some of the posts seem to assume the worst about the company that has done so much to make serious Bible study available to so many.

It is one thing to not desire a subscription model, and I do not. However, that does not mean that it is not a good thing for others. Nor does it mean that the company is turning its back on the rest of us.

I love Logos. They have been a blessing for me.

Doc B

This thread wins the Irony award. [:D]

Yasmin Stephen

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1296692#Comment_1296692

This thread wins the Irony award.

You saw it too [:)]

1Cor10 31

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1296679#Comment_1296679

It has always been a company that is honest and honorable. I have no reason to believe that will change with new management at the top.

The future will look like the history only if the factors affecting history will not change in the future. We know that the new private equity owners are not the same as the founders of Logos. It is completely different owner with a different objective function. This is what economists call a "structural break". Thus I have no reason to believe to say that the future will be the same as in the past.

Pastor Dave Thomas

think about how to add value to the conversation before posting.

In order to "add value" we (self included) need to consider our audience. If feedback needs to go to Logos management, the USER Forums are not the best place to voice that concern.

1. email customer service or *@logoscom my concern WILL be seen by a decision maker.

2. Create a thread or comment on a post my thought WILL be seen by other users who have no influence, and MAY be seen by a decision maker.

Aaron Hamilton

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1296752#Comment_1296752

In order to "add value" we (self included) need to consider our audience. If feedback needs to go to Logos management, the USER Forums are not the best place to voice that concern.

I mean no disrespect, but I'm not entirely sure about this. I have read that the forums are a great place to give feedback and report bugs, though care must be taken to give the feedback in the proper forum. Additionally, the majority of recent feedback was given in threads where the OP was a decision maker and explicitly asked for feedback in the thread while promising that the responses would be read and considered.

Sam Shelton

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1296776#Comment_1296776

Dare I say that I agree with everyone here, but not everything here?[;)]