Logos resource marketing plan is ______?
When I first started using Logos, new resources usually went through community pricing or pre-publication for funding. This produced an environment where new resources were marketed primarily to existing users -- the exception being resources that supported new features in major releases. Logos was quite responsive to user-suggested resources
This morphed into a period where major denominations each had their own product managers who presented a more cohesive expansion of resources within a tradition. These managers generally were responsive to user-suggested resources. However, some managers were new-converts or biased towards a specific thread of thought within their tradition. Whether this approach would have been effective is unknown as the product managers were laid off just when one would expect to start seeing the fruit of their labor.
This morphed into the current situation where three things seem to be occurring:
- product managers appear to be assigned based on the available interface languages
- there is little evidence of responsiveness to user-requested resources
- special purpose packages e.g. Assembly of God Bible Engagement (?), Catholic RCIA package, Afro-American package ... exist but are well hidden rather than advertising the breadth of support Logos/Verbum support
This is exacerbated by changes in marketing of individual resources:
- the eBook feature which I love except when books that should be full Logos books get left in eBook status
- the division of Logos books into reader/research edition which often leaves books in the reader (lightly) tagged status that should be research editions if Logos took a broader view of Bible study/hermeneutics
- the apparent stopping of progress on tagging sermons, lectures, personal letters ... which on some resources was tagging we rightly thought we paid for
The net result is that my purchases of physical books has gone up dramatically because I have absolutely no sense of predictability as to what will be offered or in what state of usefulness it will be offered. Why should I pay > $100 for an eBook dictionary in Logos that lacks tagging by headword and for which I cannot assign headwords for all entries? Why should I encourage adult education in my parish to buy into Verbum if I can't count on the timely addition of new encyclicals?
Are you fellow forumites equally frustrated by the lack of responsiveness to user-requested upgrades to current resources and the addition of new resources reflecting the needs of the users as presented on the feedback site? How do you handle the issue and what would you like to see out of Logos?
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Thank you for setting this out so clearly, MJ.
MJ. Smith said:Are you fellow forumites equally frustrated by the lack of responsiveness to user-requested upgrades to current resources and the addition of new resources reflecting the needs of the users as presented on the feedback site? How do you handle the issue and what would you like to see out of Logos?
My answer is yes to your question. The power of Logos is being diluted by the lack of more and more viable resources. I am just a layman, but I have been teaching adult Bible studies more or less weekly for more than 40 years. Logos has been a great help in my preparation, but it would be even more helpful if your observations were addressed.
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MJ. Smith said:
Are you fellow forumites equally frustrated by the lack of responsiveness to user-requested upgrades to current resources and the addition of new resources reflecting the needs of the users as presented on the feedback site? How do you handle the issue and what would you like to see out of Logos?
Well, I'm down to one prepub, plus some journals. If I can get the one prepub, then the future of Faithlife is of no significance. Bellingham seems to be doing ok, and can use the extra real estate.
- Shopping on Logos.com is painful. The categories are broad and almost meaningless. And it takes forever to see what's new.
- And there's not much new. Besides devotional products (aka Christian Bookstores), it's mainly more greek grammars.
- New academic research proposals are pretty verboten ... Kindle for that. I've no idea how Mark Smith slipped in.
- Finally, no hints, aka, 'since you like this, how about this'? Amazon!
But! That's just me. My impression is they're targeting the younger set (good), and trying hard to make the app more friendly (good luck). I'm not all that sure what the younger set wants (more grammars). I am, however, a believer in forums being only one of many sources of input.
So, yes, it's a great mystery.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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Personally, after about 30 years of using Logos, I do not see myself upgrading my Logos software again unless Logos Publishes the Bicentennial Edition of the Works of John Wesley, and I now convinced that will never happen.
My reason is that I like the version of Logos that I now have, and I little interest in new features. I have a more than adequate collection of the best Commentaries available. I see no need to upgrade.
"In all cases, the Church is to be judged by the Scripture, not the Scripture by the Church," John Wesley0 -
Frustrated by the lack of responsiveness????? BEYOND!!!!
I recently deleted a few Pre Pubs that have been sitting for 4 years from RC Sproul, guess because they were "free" as many of his were - it wasn't worth actually finishing the product.
The number of resources suggested that get little to no attention - I vote for books that I personally wouldn't purchase because they look like a beneficial work for someone in that particular circle - yet, seems like there is rare traction....
Works that have been in the "works" for years and not fulfilled
Features that have been purchased and deprecated or deprecated then replaced for another cost....
AND
The ever present cluster of chaos that currently keeps the forums busy with little to no response....
Sadly MJ.... Your points are all valid and more evidence that this is no longer the Logos that we all knew.....
Logos 10 - OpenSuse Tumbleweed, Windows 11, Android 16 & Android 14
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MJ. Smith said:
Are you fellow forumites equally frustrated by the lack of responsiveness to user-requested upgrades to current resources and the addition of new resources reflecting the needs of the users as presented on the feedback site?
Yes! I make hundreds of suggestions on the Feedback site and rarely if ever have seen any of them become Logos books. I don't know why I bother anymore.
MJ. Smith said:How do you handle the issue and what would you like to see out of Logos?
I try not to think about it and pretend that one day Logos will pay attention to our requests.
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Rosie Perera said:MJ. Smith said:
How do you handle the issue and what would you like to see out of Logos?
I try not to think about it and pretend that one day Logos will pay attention to our requests.
I burst out laughing when I saw this. This is exactly how I handle Logos.
This ill-sorted confusion reminds me of jobs I had. Many suggestions were yeah-yeah'd + BFI'd.
Suddenly a change happened; senior mgt. had a light bulb, but it dimmed for the necessary follow through.
The famous French saying applies: the more things change, the more things stay the same.
If MJ worked for Logos, she soon wouldn't; her charge for change would be made available to industry. She would suffer the Termination Blues.
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MJ. Smith said:
Are you fellow forumites equally frustrated by the lack of responsiveness to user-requested upgrades to current resources and the addition of new resources reflecting the needs of the users as presented on the feedback site? How do you handle the issue and what would you like to see out of Logos?
I have adopted a 'wait and see' approach. I will wait until the end of November when I expect FL to reveal its plan. It better be phenomenal. I am purchasing less and depending on the outcome in November, may just be content with what I have and no longer purchase.
There is great frustration and little communication.
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Mark said:
I have adopted a 'wait and see' approach. I will wait until the end of November when I expect FL to reveal its plan. It better be phenomenal. I am purchasing less and depending on the outcome in November, may just be content with what I have and no longer purchase.
There is great frustration and little communication.
Well said. Communication is key to ... absolutely everything. Transparency with priorities, struggles, wishes, desires, and goals, help immensely with all relationships, even customer-business relationships.
M.J. is right... although Catholic ebooks are occasionally added to the pre-pubs, where is the commitment to things central to Catholic needs? Three years ago, Pope Francis released a motu proprio which got the whole Catholic world talking (Traditionis Custodes). Although the Catholic world has cooled off on it a little, it feels like Verbum is waiting until it's mostly irrelevant before it is available in some form in the software. Two years ago, Pope Francis revealed his mind on the sacred liturgy in a beautiful apostolic letter, Desiderio Desideravi, which reveals his closeness to the mind of Romano Guardini. Are we going to get this in Verbum after the next papacy? Dignitas Infinita is the latest major topic in the Catholic Church to come out of the Vatican and Verbum is missing out on all of this extremely relevant content too. Logos' desire to move to a subscription model is expressed as a desire to regularly put new content in the software without having to wait for two-year release cycles... but Verbum can't even keep up with content two, three, four years old. A subscription service isn't going to help when the team isn't even on top of what's relevant and immediate in the Catholic world today. Seldom is there recognition that there is a feedback site with books on it... let alone responses to the items requested there...
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I miss catholic resources in Verbum. Especially translations in german, e.g. the catechism or texts by the last Popes.
And catholic works with german as original language, e.g. the major works of Joseph Ratzinger / Benedikt XVI., Romano Guardini and Hans Urs von Balthasar, which are available only in english.Proper linking of titles already in Logos/Verbum would be nice, e.g.
- RGG4 tied to Timeline
- Lexikon der Kirchengeschichte to Timeline
- ca. 100 pages of Bibliography of Zengers Einleitung in das AT to the corresponding resources already in Logos/Verbum
Also, it would be great to have the LThK in all editions (1-3) and TRE in Logos. I'm aware of the fact that the majority of users speaks english (and not german), but here the (new) translation tool could maybe fill in, as this are still top-notch titles.
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MJ. Smith said:
The net result is that my purchases of physical books has gone up dramatically ...
Are you fellow forumites equally frustrated by the lack of responsiveness to user-requested upgrades to current resources and the addition of new resources reflecting the needs of the users as presented on the feedback site?
Of course, and I always have been to some degree. The difference now versus in the past is, in the past there was always hope it would get better.
This might be a good time to dig up the old threads with folks talking about selling their physical libraries and converting to 100% digital. Some of us tried to tell them to do this in moderation. #SITYS
Eating a steady diet of government cheese, and living in a van down by the river.
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Hi all, thanks as always for your feedback. As someone who is relatively new to Logos, I appreciate the candor and constructive criticism you’ve shared in this thread.
I’d like to share a few thoughts in response:
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My role as VP of Content Products is a new one at Logos, and it signals our commitment to further invest in developing our content resources. I’m building an expanded team centered around a deep focus on providing Logos users with the world’s best selection of books and resources in Bible study, theology, ministry, counseling, spiritual growth, and adjacent fields of interest and study. Based on my experience with content and publishing, the Logos catalog today is very strong. With your help and input, I'm confident we can make it even better.
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I hear you loud and clear on the lack of responsiveness to the book request feedback site. Please keep using this site to share your requests and upvote others. I have asked our new head of publisher relations to monitor the site weekly and increase our agility in meeting your requests as often as possible. Integrating more customer and market feedback into our content acquisition strategy is a top priority for me, and your direct input makes this possible.
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We are excited about our recent work in extending our content selection, and I am pleased to share that we have just added New Growth Press, Cambridge University Press, and Princeton University Press to our roster of publishing partners. You will see many new titles from these publishers and others in our bookstore and in new libraries that will launch this fall. Alongside a steady stream of new partners, we continue to expand our offerings with trusted existing Logos partners like Baker, Eerdmans, IVP, and HarperCollins Christian.
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We are planning to introduce changes over the next year to the way our bookstore site is categorized and structured to greatly improve your browsing and shopping experience. I’m excited for how these changes will serve you, particularly when it comes to discovering the latest and greatest resources tailored to your needs. Please stay tuned for updates on this front.
Thanks again for your continued support of Logos. Please keep the feedback coming; we are listening!
VP, Content Products
Logos
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Matt Bennett said:
Hi all, thanks as always for your feedback. As someone who is relatively new to Logos, I appreciate the candor and constructive criticism you’ve shared in this thread.
I’d like to share a few thoughts in response:
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My role as VP of Content Products is a new one at Logos, and it signals our commitment to further invest in developing our content resources. I’m building an expanded team centered around a deep focus on providing Logos users with the world’s best selection of books and resources in Bible study, theology, ministry, counseling, spiritual growth, and adjacent fields of interest and study. Based on my experience with content and publishing, the Logos catalog today is very strong. With your help and input, I'm confident we can make it even better.
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I hear you loud and clear on the lack of responsiveness to the book request feedback site. Please keep using this site to share your requests and upvote others. I have asked our new head of publisher relations to monitor the site weekly and increase our agility in meeting your requests as often as possible. Integrating more customer and market feedback into our content acquisition strategy is a top priority for me, and your direct input makes this possible.
-
We are excited about our recent work in extending our content selection, and I am pleased to share that we have just added New Growth Press, Cambridge University Press, and Princeton University Press to our roster of publishing partners. You will see many new titles from these publishers and others in our bookstore and in new libraries that will launch this fall. Alongside a steady stream of new partners, we continue to expand our offerings with trusted existing Logos partners like Baker, Eerdmans, IVP, and HarperCollins Christian.
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We are planning to introduce changes over the next year to the way our bookstore site is categorized and structured to greatly improve your browsing and shopping experience. I’m excited for how these changes will serve you, particularly when it comes to discovering the latest and greatest resources tailored to your needs. Please stay tuned for updates on this front.
Thanks again for your continued support of Logos. Please keep the feedback coming; we are listening!
This is encouraging. A big frustration for me is missing books from established authors with established publishers. I can never understand why such gaps exist. It's great to see new publishers coming on board. I rarely buy physical books or Kindle books, unless the price is far too compelling. This means publishers and authors miss out unless they are working with Logos.
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I am very pleased to learn this! Thanks.Matt Bennett said:Hi all, thanks as always for your feedback. As someone who is relatively new to Logos, I appreciate the candor and constructive criticism you’ve shared in this thread.
I’d like to share a few thoughts in response:
-
My role as VP of Content Products is a new one at Logos, and it signals our commitment to further invest in developing our content resources. I’m building an expanded team centered around a deep focus on providing Logos users with the world’s best selection of books and resources in Bible study, theology, ministry, counseling, spiritual growth, and adjacent fields of interest and study. Based on my experience with content and publishing, the Logos catalog today is very strong. With your help and input, I'm confident we can make it even better.
-
I hear you loud and clear on the lack of responsiveness to the book request feedback site. Please keep using this site to share your requests and upvote others. I have asked our new head of publisher relations to monitor the site weekly and increase our agility in meeting your requests as often as possible. Integrating more customer and market feedback into our content acquisition strategy is a top priority for me, and your direct input makes this possible.
-
We are excited about our recent work in extending our content selection, and I am pleased to share that we have just added New Growth Press, Cambridge University Press, and Princeton University Press to our roster of publishing partners. You will see many new titles from these publishers and others in our bookstore and in new libraries that will launch this fall. Alongside a steady stream of new partners, we continue to expand our offerings with trusted existing Logos partners like Baker, Eerdmans, IVP, and HarperCollins Christian.
-
We are planning to introduce changes over the next year to the way our bookstore site is categorized and structured to greatly improve your browsing and shopping experience. I’m excited for how these changes will serve you, particularly when it comes to discovering the latest and greatest resources tailored to your needs. Please stay tuned for updates on this front.
Thanks again for your continued support of Logos. Please keep the feedback coming; we are listening!
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Matt Bennett said:
Hi all, thanks as always for your feedback. As someone who is relatively new to Logos, I appreciate the candor and constructive criticism you’ve shared in this thread.
I’d like to share a few thoughts in response:
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<SNIP>
Thanks again for your continued support of Logos. Please keep the feedback coming; we are listening!
Thank you, Matt!
Macbook Air (2024), Apple M2, 16gb Ram, Mac Sequoia, 1TB storage
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Mike Childs said:
My reason is that I like the version of Logos that I now have, and I little interest in new features. I have a more than adequate collection of the best Commentaries available. I see no need to upgrade.
Mike - I have been using Logos not as long as you at about 23 years. I have many of the same thoughts, especially about features. What more do I need? It seems cluttered and bloated as it is. I so wish I could hide features that I will never use, so I can have a cleaner list to pick from.
I keep buying books that I don't need or use. Why?
Macbook Air (2024), Apple M2, 16gb Ram, Mac Sequoia, 1TB storage
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For years I have been suggesting a simple, clean interface, something like Olive Tree or eSword--maybe a little better. Mostly sans-gadget. I think that is the #1 thing Logos could do to hook new investors and launch new users. That would meet 80% of my need for Logos. For simple things, I use Google now, but Logos would be so much better because it contains quality resources that I own.
Of course, I want to turn on some of my essential gadgets when I want them. I don't want to find my way around the cockpit of a 747 when all I need is a 5-speed bicycle.
I am very glad for the 747 when I need it. I paid a lot for it, and I can fly it.
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GaoLu said:
For years I have been suggesting a simple, clean interface, something like Olive Tree or eSword--maybe a little better. Mostly sans-gadget. I think that is the #1 thing Logos could do to hook new investors and launch new users. That would meet 80% of my need for Logos. For simple things, I use Google now, but Logos would be so much better because it contains quality resources that I own.
Of course, I want to turn on some of my essential gadgets when I want them. I don't want to find my way around the cockpit of a 747 when all I need is a 5-speed bicycle.
I am very glad for the 747 when I need it. I paid a lot for it, and I can fly it.
Could not have said this better myself. I have subscribed to MP Seminars for years and there are so many things that I forget how to do them when I sit down to do actual study and sermon prep.
I have been a customer for at lease 22 years... maybe a year or two more than that. So I have been trying for a long time. I am computer-literate and. and still feel lost at times. Other times I think it is the greatest thing in the world. Usually when I am using it like a "5-speed bicycle."
Macbook Air (2024), Apple M2, 16gb Ram, Mac Sequoia, 1TB storage
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Jerry Bush said:
What more do I need? It seems cluttered and bloated as it is. I so wish I could hide features that I will never use, so I can have a cleaner list to pick from.
What you need to understand is that the basic functions required depends upon the user. Thinking about the most frequent attendees of Bible studies in our parish: (1) a secretary who was an English major would be dissatisfied with the lack of coverage for literary features - she is a whiz at remember other Bible passages using the same metaphor ... (2) a drama (voice) instructor who would be dissatisfied with the lack of tools for visualizing narrative - he had amazing insights on the woman caught in adultery when one considered the physical relationships between the individuals ... (3) a care-giver and recent convert who would love Logos if he could afford all the commentaries -- he had an amazing ability to reduce many commentaries into distinct streams of thought and identify the assumptions behind each stream (4) an auto mechanic who was great at pointing out the logistical difficulties and the physical characteristics of the things and movements mentioned would want more details of material culture, geography, ad technological level (5) myself who specialized in semantic roles, case frames, and similar stories from other cultures/explanatory midrash in paraBiblical materials and other trivia who finds Logos sadly lacking outside the grammatical-historical method ... (6) somehow our historians and psychologists were relatively quiet.
It seems to me that the Bible study associated with churches that historically used workbooks or printed weekly lessons to guide the participants creates very different needs than the churches used to using only the Bible text and freeform scripture study/fixed debate structure drawing on what the participants happen to know.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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MJ. Smith said:Jerry Bush said:
What more do I need? It seems cluttered and bloated as it is. I so wish I could hide features that I will never use, so I can have a cleaner list to pick from.
What you need to understand is that the basic functions required depends upon the user.
I agree, MJ. That is why I said I would like the idea to hide or delete features on my local setup. Not for Logos to take them away for everyone.
Macbook Air (2024), Apple M2, 16gb Ram, Mac Sequoia, 1TB storage
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Rosie Perera said:MJ. Smith said:
Are you fellow forumites equally frustrated by the lack of responsiveness to user-requested upgrades to current resources and the addition of new resources reflecting the needs of the users as presented on the feedback site?
Yes! I make hundreds of suggestions on the Feedback site and rarely if ever have seen any of them become Logos books. I don't know why I bother anymore.
MJ. Smith said:How do you handle the issue and what would you like to see out of Logos?
I try not to think about it and pretend that one day Logos will pay attention to our requests.
I sometimes try the direct approach of asking the publisher directly via Twitter. It seems to have worked with this resource, which I couldn't find a week ago and it's now there.
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I remember the day they bought the new, giant book scanner! Bob posted pics on the blog. I should have saved those for nostalgia! it was a banner day
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Dave Gifford said:
I remember the day they bought the new, giant book scanner! Bob posted pics on the blog. I should have saved those for nostalgia! it was a banner day
Here?
https://community.logos.com/forums/p/13441/103942.aspx#103942Here for the movie: http://www.logos.com/media/stream/kirtas_movie.wmv
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