a question from an Accordance User
Comments
-
Mark Allison said:
I've been trying to wrap my head around reasons to search in the Bible tab, or search in the Search tab. Seems to me that most basic searches in English and the original languages can be performed in a Bible tab. It's only when you want to do something more advanced, or search multiple texts, that you would perform a search in the Search tab.
This is my current philosophy!
0 -
MJ. Smith said:
I'm not sure of your precise workflow here. However, there is another pattern from the selection menu that might suit you for original language work - you select the word then have quick links to copy, search, Bible Word Study guide, and lexicon lookup. You can choose to default to the lemma rather than the manuscript form.
Thank you! [:)]
0 -
Dave Hooton said:
You should support a request to Logos to rename tabs on desktop And add comments. More support will increase the chance of being implemented. There is also a request for Tab Groups.
This is great. Votes casted.
0 -
Donovan R. Palmer said:Dave Hooton said:
You should support a request to Logos to rename tabs on desktop And add comments. More support will increase the chance of being implemented. There is also a request for Tab Groups.
This is great. Votes casted.
Same here! [Y]
0 -
A few hours ago I was talking to an avid Accordance user who knows my style, and he said that language study is possible, so I feel encouraged.
I also finally finished that seminar thing, which was legions more helpful than the Help center, so I feel like I have a better feel of basic functions (as I mentioned before, I wish I had discovered this day 1.)
Anyway, going though that tutorial thing, he had us do an "Inductive" study and recommended writing notes. So I have a few questions:
1. Who sees this? Is this on my computer alone? Or am I publishing something to a cloud? Or is everyone at Logos central able to sit around reading it while eating popcorn?
2. As a trial, I decided to start looking stuff up on τρυγών. I know it only occurs in Lk 2:24, so I am not interested in texts, I am rather interested in dictionaries and such, so I clicked on "Books" instead of "Bible." However, a bunch of "bibles" are in this section. Is this "Books" section just meaning everything which is not the "preferred" Bible?
3. If I run the search under "Books," then I flip to "Bible" I need to press enter for it to run, even though I am obviously looking up τρυγών. So I press enter, then I go back to "Books" and likewise, I need to press enter again, even though this is obviously the same search. My recollection is that there is a way to prevent it from deleting my work, but I don't remember what that was. Any help would be appreciated and here is a screenshot of the issues concerned.
0 -
Kristin said:
1. Who sees this? Is this on my computer alone? Or am I publishing something to a cloud? Or is everyone at Logos central able to sit around reading it while eating popcorn?
Notes are created on your computer and then synced with the Logos cloud - this enables them to be synced to other devices you own so you can see the same notes on multiple computers, mobile devices or on the web app.
There have been various discussions in the past regarding security of this data and I don't believe it is encrypted - so each of us needs to choose whether we are ok with this.
Kristin said:However, a bunch of "bibles" are in this section. Is this "Books" section just meaning everything which is not the "preferred" Bible?
A Books Search will search everything you own - including all the Bibles you own.
Whereas a Bible Search will search one (or more) of the Bibles you own
Kristin said:As a trial, I decided to start looking stuff up on τρυγών
For looking at individual words, I would start by right-clicking it in a Bible. If you then ensure the lemma option is selected on the left you have a number of options including:
- Opening a Bible Word Study Guide on that word (blue arrows)
- Looking up the word in your five highest prioritised lexicons (red outline)
0 -
Graham Criddle said:
or looking at individual words, I would start by right-clicking it in a Bible. If you then ensure the lemma option is selected on the left you have a number of options including:
Hi Graham,
Thank you for the clarification about notes on that window (you probably guessed correctly that I won't be using them given your answer [:)] ) and also for the "books" explanation.
I was surprised by your screenshot, as your "Look up" section has a bunch of useful information, while mine only has two abbreviations of books I don't recognize. I would have thought this would be edited in the "Prioritized Books" section, but BDAG (as an example) is already set as such, yet is not appearing in that "Look up" section. Is it clear why?Take care and thank you again.
0 -
Kristin said:
1. Who sees this? Is this on my computer alone? Or am I publishing something to a cloud? Or is everyone at Logos central able to sit around reading it while eating popcorn?
It has reasonable security but does not meet UK/EU(?) security requirements for private information if you do counseling, etc. Put another way, academics generally can ignore security issues; pastors/counselors cannot.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
0 -
Kristin said:
I was surprised by your screenshot, as your "Look up" section has a bunch of useful information, while mine only has two abbreviations of books I don't recognize. I would have thought this would be edited in the "Prioritized Books" section, but BDAG (as an example) is already set as such, yet is not appearing in that "Look up" section. Is it clear why?
Please post a screenshot showing what you are seeing
0 -
How do I change a single text to a verse-by-verse display instead of paragraph? I couldn't find anything about it in the help center.
0 -
In an open bible you will see three triangle dots called visual filters. If you click on in and scroll down to Bible Text you will see several options, One is one verse per line. You can also remove footnotes and verse markers.
0 -
John Fidel said:
In an open bible you will see three triangle dots called visual filters. If you click on in and scroll down to Bible Text you will see several options, One is one verse per line. You can also remove footnotes and verse markers.
Thanks John! I had looked at that more than once, but the disclosure triangle was hiding it and I missed it. Next question: I'm assuming there's a way to change the leading too?
0 -
Logos does not have the same feature as Accordance regarding adjusting the leading.
0 -
John Fidel said:
Logos does not have the same feature as Accordance regarding adjusting the leading.
Thanks for the info! Knowing you can't do something is almost as helpful as knowing you can. At least I won't spend more time trying to figure out how to do it :-)
0 -
Mark Allison said:
Thanks for the info! Knowing you can't do something is almost as helpful as knowing you can. At least I won't spend more time trying to figure out how to do it :-)
In our helpful Accordance features list which I would love to see in Logos, I have advocated for more granular tab by tab text controls so that you can optimise screen space.
I debated this a bit with Bob P. years ago. He was of the mind to keep the programme as simple as possible. I was advocating for giving power users the opportunity to economise screen utilisation as much as possible. For me, I tend to use larger fonts and different background colours for my main text windows, but for supplementary notes, just as you would do in a book with footnotes, I would use smaller, more compressed fonts, line formats, etc.
Presently there is no way to do this in Logos other than some loose controls. In regard to the argument in keeping it simple, I suggested that this was a power user feature. For those that did not want to use this feature, they would leave it at global programme defaults. However, if someone messed things up too much, there could be a global return to default button.
Anyhow, we are where we are today. Some tabs of information are unnecessarily expensive when it comes to screen space, but there is not a lot that you can do about this.
0 -
Mark Allison said:
Next question: I'm assuming there's a way to change the leading too?
Program settings has an option for line spacing. Your only choices are tight/ normal/ loose, but it's better than nothing. i set it to loose.
0 -
Donovan R. Palmer said:
In our helpful Accordance features list which I would love to see in Logos, I have advocated for more granular tab by tab text controls so that you can optimise screen space.
And it goes beyond this. I head up the ePub development team at Lifeway, and accessibility is something we think about a lot. People with even minor visual impairments require more control over font style, size, leading, foreground color, background color, etc. Accessibility is often an afterthought (if it's even considered at all), but more companies are beginning to make it a priority, especially with new mandates being introduced such as the European Accessibility Act that comes into play in 2025.
0 -
Thanks Jonathan, that does help a little.
0 -
Donovan R. Palmer said:
I debated this a bit with Bob P. years ago. He was of the mind to keep the programme as simple as possible. I was advocating for giving power users the opportunity to economise screen utilisation as much as possible. For me, I tend to use larger fonts and different background colours for my main text windows, but for supplementary notes, just as you would do in a book with footnotes, I would use smaller, more compressed fonts, line formats, etc.
I don't quite understand. If you're talking the notes panel, agree, though I think it's overall, poorly designed (but no matter; my notes aren't in Logos).
But elsewise, I'm the queen of squishing info into a Logos panel. My windows generally have 12+ panels and very little empty space (margins, etc). Indeed, I consciously avoid buying many of the Lexham books, since they waste so much space.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
0 -
Mark Allison said:
And it goes beyond this. I head up the ePub development team at Lifeway, and accessibility is something we think about a lot. People with even minor visual impairments require more control over font style, size, leading, foreground color, background color, etc. Accessibility is often an afterthought (if it's even considered at all), but more companies are beginning to make it a priority, especially with new mandates being introduced such as the European Accessibility Act that comes into play in 2025.
It is interesting that you mention accessibility... I had never thought of it that way.
Part of what I am doing when I adjust the fonts is that I am trying to find an optimum of when I perceive it is easier for my eyes to follow the text. So size of fonts, compression of text, space between lines, white space in margins, etc. all comes into play. The more I can reduce screen fatigue, the better and more effective I will be in my studies. There were a lot of things that the Browns got right on Accordance, and this was one of them. They really sweat the details when it came to the UI.
This is my point about the tooltip pop up for parsing information. The text is too small without enough white space around it to not force me to really move my focus down to the bottom of the screen to look at it. Maybe it is fine for others, but there is no way to change it from the default. For me it unnecessarily takes too much concentration. From an accessibility point of view for some, I can't imagine this is helpful ether.
0 -
In Accordance, I could type in the following references in a text window and have them displayed in that order: Ruth 2:3; Gen 8:4; Rev. 1-2; John 1:3-6. . Is there a way to do that in Logos?
0 -
Look what I just did :-)
You have to use the Command Box. It's "Set Greek Font to Accordance" minus the quotes (and "Set Hebrew Font to Accordance"). This is where you enter the command:
Once you enter the commands in the Command Box, they'll show up in your Logos Preferences.
0 -
0
-
Mark Allison said:In Accordance, I could type in the following references in a text window and have them displayed in that order: Ruth 2:3; Gen 8:4; Rev. 1-2; John 1:3-6. . Is there a way to do that in Logos?
This is a good question and one I am also interested in learning the answer to.
חַפְּשׂוּ בַּתּוֹרָה הֵיטֵב וְאַל תִּסְתַּמְּכוּ עַל דְּבָרַי
0 -
Mark Allison said:
In Accordance, I could type in the following references in a text window and have them displayed in that order: Ruth 2:3; Gen 8:4; Rev. 1-2; John 1:3-6. . Is there a way to do that in Logos?
You can do this in a Passage List document
I have just created a new one and entered the references in the reference box
When I press Enter, they are added to the Passage List
You can then change the order or add new passages if you wish
0 -
0
-
MJ. Smith said:
It has reasonable security but does not meet UK/EU(?) security requirements for private information if you do counseling, etc. Put another way, academics generally can ignore security issues; pastors/counselors cannot.
Hi MJ,
Thank you for clarifying! That is really helpful to understand. Given what you wrote, this confirms I shouldn't use it. I am primarily an academic of course, but a lot of what I do is confidential for security reasons. Thank you again for the clarification.
0 -
Graham Criddle said:
Please post a screenshot showing what you are seeing
Hi Graham,
Here is a screenshot.
0 -
חַפְּשׂוּ בַּתּוֹרָה הֵיטֵב וְאַל תִּסְתַּמְּכוּ עַל דְּבָרַי
0 -
Mark Allison said:
Thanks for the info! Knowing you can't do something is almost as helpful as knowing you can. At least I won't spend more time trying to figure out how to do it :-)
That is how I feel too. [:)]
Donovan R. Palmer said:In our helpful Accordance features list which I would love to see in Logos, I have advocated for more granular tab by tab text controls so that you can optimise screen space.
Ya, the wasted space is a huge issue in Logos. To be honest, it almost seems to be by design for esthetic reasons, as this is even the case in the Home screen. Granted, the Home screen isn't important, but it does seem to almost be symbolic of how Logos views space. Speaking of, is there a way to actually modify where cards are (besides just adding and deleting cards)?
Donovan R. Palmer said:Some tabs of information are unnecessarily expensive when it comes to screen space, but there is not a lot that you can do about this.
That is also true.
Mark Allison said:In Accordance, I could type in the following references in a text window and have them displayed in that order: Ruth 2:3; Gen 8:4; Rev. 1-2; John 1:3-6. . Is there a way to do that in Logos?
Graham Criddle said:You can do this in a Passage List document...I have just created a new one and entered the references in the reference box... When I press Enter, they are added to the Passage List...You can then change the order or add new passages if you wish
I think this is a good example of how unintuitive Logos is. In Accordance I can just go to the Search bar (I guess closer to Logos "Bible" I think), and just type what I want. A word, a verse, verses in biblical order, verses in my own order, etc, etc. It is a one step process. While it is good that there is a way to organize passages in Logos, it is kind of confusing that I need to do something with Documents, and also, this is a multistep process, which frankly doesn't sound realistic in a classroom setting.
Sort of similarly, after I type my verses in my own order and press enter in Accordance, I can then copy the verses, copy the references, or simply right click and search the lex. So to search the lex in Accordance is two steps, but I will add three to copy the word. So to search for the first instance of a lex for both programs:
Accordance
1) right click
2) search lex
3) copy word
Logos
1) right click
2) click the little language wheel thing
3) click "Bible"
4) click a verse to actually re-open the Bible
5) right click
6) copy
7) paste somewhere else to get rid of the hyperlink
8) copy plain text word0 -
Mark Allison said:
Look what I just did :-)
Now that is a cool hack. I do like the Accordance fonts!
What do you use for an English text font?
0 -
Kristin said:
I think this is a good example of how unintuitive Logos is.
Please remember that "intuitive" is in the eye of the beholder. What does/doesn't make sense to you isn't necessarily what does/doesn't make sense to someone else. I've responded to numerous people over the years on the Accordance forums who were lost because there wasn't a verse picker. They thought Accordance was very unintuitive.
With that said... I do like being able to enter a string of references and have them all display. I have a few use cases for this, particularly on mobile where entering references into a passage list is a bit cumbersome. So I hope this could be considered for a future feature improvement.
0 -
Donovan R. Palmer said:
Now that is a cool hack. I do like the Accordance fonts!
What do you use for an English text font?
I was wondering that too. [:)]
0 -
Jonathan Huber said:
Please remember that "intuitive" is in the eye of the beholder. What does/doesn't make sense to you isn't necessarily what does/doesn't make sense to someone else.
Hi Jonathan,
Ya, that is of course true, and I do. My comments are concerning the perspective of myself. I am not claiming to speak on behalf of pastors, or people who don't use Bible software, or people who are not advanced in biblical languages. All these individuals have very unique needs which are all important and they can speak for themselves. So my comments are of course referring to my academic work.
The idea of searching for a lex and copying the first hit is the type of thing I do multiple times a day. As demonstrated above, in Accordance that is a 3 step process, while in Logos it is an 8 step process, making it not great for my needs. Sorry for any confusion I might have caused by my comment, it wasn't intentional.0 -
Okay, this really is a great thread!
Well, I have a question too! How one would go about running queries on the cantillation marks /te'amim on the Hebrew Bible in Logos. For example:
(1a) Finding all the instances when telisha gadol and geresh/gershayim appear on the same word? (e.g Ezek 48:10 ולאלה) .
(1b) Or, designing a search in order to find all words with double cantillation marks?
(2) Fine all instances where a shalshelet appears ?
(3) Search for cantillation patterns or strings such as for instance where a Mercha followed by a Tipcha followed by Mercha ending with a Sof Pasuk ? Or the following: Mercha, Tipcha, Munach, Etnachta ?
חַפְּשׂוּ בַּתּוֹרָה הֵיטֵב וְאַל תִּסְתַּמְּכוּ עַל דְּבָרַי
0 -
Jonathan Huber said:
Please remember that "intuitive" is in the eye of the beholder. What does/doesn't make sense to you isn't necessarily what does/doesn't make sense to someone else. I've responded to numerous people over the years on the Accordance forums who were lost because there wasn't a verse picker. They thought Accordance was very unintuitive.
This is so true, and to be fair Logo's challenge is its broad user base. There are so many use cases that would influence agreement on what is intuitive. This is on top of users coming from another platform where there are other approaches. I remember the WordSearch community adapting to the Logos way. It is often not easy.
With that said, seeing Rick's endorsement and watching Kristin and Mark with a few Logosians put the software through its paces makes this thread invaluable. It is probably not appropriate to pin it, but it does merit some of the best posts or conclusions being collected for other Accordance users who might come, or have the emphasis of study that even includes some of the BibleWorks customers that joined Accordance not that long ago.
I too, have found this to be a fascinating, and the hacks like the font are a cool Bible nerd option. It is fun to be excited about Bible software again.
0 -
Donovan R. Palmer said:
What do you use for an English text font?
I'm just using the default book font. It's seems sort of "neutral" to me, that's fine.
0 -
Mark Allison said:
I'm just using the default book font. It's seems sort of "neutral" to me, that's fine.
I recently switched from default to GentiumAlt. I don't know why, but I think I liked the lighter font on my MBP Retina screen. Type of screen does make a difference!
0 -
BKMitchell said:
(1a) Finding all the instances when telisha gadol and geresh/gershayim appear on the same word? (e.g Ezek 48:10 ולאלה) .
Hi BKMitchell,
I am wondering that too. I tried a few things but can't get a consistent result. Also... btw... do you intend for the vav to be there at the front?
0 -
If you have Accordance installed, the font will already be on your system. But if you need to download it, it's available here (it has an open license btw):
https://www.accordancebible.com/Accordance-Font/(Hope it's okay to post a link like this).
0 -
Donovan R. Palmer said:
I recently switched from default to GentiumAlt. I don't know why, but I think I liked the lighter font on my MBP Retina screen. Type of screen does make a difference!
Yes! I like it a lot. Think I'll go with it.
0 -
Kristin said:
I think this is a good example of how unintuitive Logos is. In Accordance I can just go to the Search bar (I guess closer to Logos "Bible" I think), and just type what I want. A word, a verse, verses in biblical order, verses in my own order, etc, etc. It is a one step process. While it is good that there is a way to organize passages in Logos, it is kind of confusing that I need to do something with Documents, and also, this is a multistep process, which frankly doesn't sound realistic in a classroom setting.
If there wasn't the constraint of being able to specify verses in your own order, you could do something similar in an Inline Search
The OR is needed between the references as otherwise Logos will default to using AND and search for occurrences of all four terms in the same place
And I have specified searching for Surface Text only as otherwise it would also pick up cross-references to those verses
0 -
Donovan R. Palmer said:
With that said, seeing Rick's endorsement and watching Kristin and Mark with a few Logosians put the software through its paces makes this thread invaluable... It is fun to be excited about Bible software again.
That is encouraging to hear. [:)]
0 -
Kristin said:
Sort of similarly, after I type my verses in my own order and press enter in Accordance, I can then copy the verses, copy the references, or simply right click and search the lex. So to search the lex in Accordance is two steps, but I will add three to copy the word. So to search for the first instance of a lex for both programs:
Accordance
1) right click
2) search lex
3) copy word
Logos
1) right click
2) click the little language wheel thing
3) click "Bible"
4) click a verse to actually re-open the Bible
5) right click
6) copy
7) paste somewhere else to get rid of the hyperlink
8) copy plain text wordI can't imagine 8 steps in Logos necessary. I can right-click even untagged hebrew, another click for the lemma: 3 clicks plus copy. And all my lexicons pop to that lemma for in-depth review (usually click-thru to Qumran and inscriptions).
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
0 -
Graham Criddle said:
If there wasn't the constraint of being able to specify verses in your own order, you could do something similar in an Inline Search
I think this will be fine for many use cases. Thanks Graham!
0 -
Kristin said:
Sort of similarly, after I type my verses in my own order and press enter in Accordance, I can then copy the verses, copy the references, or simply right click and search the lex. So to search the lex in Accordance is two steps, but I will add three to copy the word. So to search for the first instance of a lex for both programs:
Accordance
1) right click
2) search lex
3) copy word
Logos
1) right click
2) click the little language wheel thing
3) click "Bible"
4) click a verse to actually re-open the Bible
5) right click
6) copy
7) paste somewhere else to get rid of the hyperlink
8) copy plain text wordI'm struggling to understand the process you are outlining so can't think about whether there is an alternative way to do this in Logos.
I understand it to be searching for a word and then copying the word - but I don't understand why you are copying the word when you already know it. Or are you copying the whole verse, the reference or something else?
0 -
DMB said:
I can't imagine 8 steps in Logos necessary.
Agreed. Trying to replicate that process made me feel dizzy. Kristin, I'm not sure what exactly you're trying to accomplish, but I assure you there's a better way. Keep in mind that the context menu remembers your selection, so if you're doing the same thing, you don't have to reselect the lemma every time you right click.
0 -
Graham Criddle said:
I understand it to be searching for a word and then copying the word - but I don't understand why you are copying the word when you already know it. Or are you copying the whole verse, the reference or something else?
Hi Graham,
This is just a hypothetical example, but let's say I am in John 1:1 and I notice the word λόγος. I then want to copy the inflected form of the first instance in the entire NT.
So in Accordance I can:
1. right click λόγος
2. search for the lex
3. discover that the first instance is in Mt 5:32 and copy λόγου.So in Accordance that is a 3 step process, but to do the same thing in Logos appears to be an 8 step process.
0 -
Kristin said:
Accordance
1) right click
2) search lex
3) copy word
Logos
1) right click
2) click the little language wheel thing
3) click "Bible"
4) click a verse to actually re-open the Bible
5) right click
6) copy
7) paste somewhere else to get rid of the hyperlink
8) copy plain text wordIn Logos, can't you right-click on the word, select the lexical form in the popup, and then copy the word?
For example, if I see "ἀφῆκεν" in the text, I can right-click on it and select the lexical form (ἀφίημι).
0 -
Aaron Hamilton said:
Trying to replicate that process made me feel dizzy
haha [:)] I'm glad to hear that some of my frustration is understandable.
Aaron Hamilton said:Kristin, I'm not sure what exactly you're trying to accomplish, but I assure you there's a better way.
I hope so!
Mark Allison said:In Logos, can't you right-click on the word, select the lexical form in the popup, and then copy the word?
Hi Mark,
I think so, but looking at my Jn 1 example above, I think a lot of the fundamental issue is that the "search" window isn't selectable, but requires to go back to the "bible" in a sort of zig-zag for something to be copyable.
0
