Official: More details about the coming subscription launch

Mark Barnes (Logos)
Mark Barnes (Logos) Administrator, Logos Employee Posts: 1,893
edited November 20 in English Forum

As you probably know, in the fall, we'll launch the next version of Logos as a subscription. We're slowly rolling out the subscription, and more and more customers are now able to get early access to it.

As the full launch gets closer, I wanted to give you a few more updates on what to expect.

First, new libraries will be available for subscribers to purchase.

  • At launch, we'll offer Starter through Collectors, and some great new content will be included in those libraries. As usual, those libraries are discounted at around 90%. Libraries are yours to keep, and dynamic pricing means you won't pay twice if you already own some of the books.

  • We'll also have some new libraries based around specific use cases, similar to the Academic, Preaching Suite, and Counseling libraries we offer with Logos 10. These libraries will align with our three subscription tiers, so there will be one set of libraries aimed at small group leaders, one set aimed at preachers, and one set aimed at those who love the original languages.

  • Verbum subscriptions and Verbum libraries will also launch at the same time.
  • Early next year, those libraries will be joined by brand new denominational libraries.

Next, let me say something more about perks that we'll include when the subscription is fully launched.

  • We've previously announced that every subscriber will receive a 5% discount storewide. This discount applies to everything in our store. The only exceptions are subscriptions, credit purchases (like Book Cache and gift cards), bulk purchases, and Pre-Pub and pre-order titles.

  • Each subscription plan will also include Mobile Ed courses, which we'll freshen up every quarter or so to give you the chance to learn from various instructors and about a range of topics. The courses will be specially selected to complement the use case of each tier. The bigger tiers will also receive more courses each quarter.

  • We've also previously announced that Logos 10 owners will also be able to qualify for the Legacy Fallback License. This means that if you remain subscribed for 24 consecutive months, you'll be your features, even if you subsequently cancel your subscription. (A few features, especially those cloud-backed or AI-based, will be excluded from the Legacy Fallback License.) The legacy fallback license will be available in October 2026, so if you qualify before then because you're part of early access, you'll need to wait until October before you receive it. If you qualify after that, we'll give you the license as soon as you qualify.

  • Logos Pro and Logos Max subscribers will get two additional perks. Firstly, they'll get free access to the premium features in Logos Sermons. But they will also get a 5% annual rewards coupon (a coupon worth 5% of your previous year’s spend).

We've also had lots of questions about pricing. We’re working out final pricing for everyone, but we can confirm what the discounted pricing will be for Logos 10 owners:

  • Premium: $6.99/month or $69.99/year (for those with Bronze features or higher)
  • Pro: $9.99/month or $99.99/year (for those with Silver features or higher)
  • Max: $12.99/month or $129.99/year (requires Full Feature Set)

There will be more to come on pricing. We know you want to know this, and we’re working to finalize it, making sure our rates fit the everyday pastor’s or student’s budget.

Finally, you may have noticed our Logos 10 Farewell Sale that is happening now. Here are two reasons you’ll want to upgrade to Logos 10 (if you haven’t already) before the new subscription releases:

  1. You save today: You’ll get the best discounts we’ve ever offered on Logos 10 feature upgrades, libraries, and complete packages.
  2. You’ll save tomorrow: You’ll also get the best discount on the subscription version of Logos when you buy a Logos 10 Full Feature Upgrade or a Logos 10 Gold package (or above). Dynamic pricing also means you'll likely pay less for our next-generation Logos libraries if you purchase a discounted Logos 10 library today.

As we approach our fall launch and finalize our plans, we'll provide more updates over the coming weeks. If you let us know which questions you would like answered, we'll try to prioritize those for you in the next update.

PS –  Have you watched this update video from Bill, our CEO?

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Comments

  • KevinV
    KevinV Member Posts: 46

    Thanks, Mark. That's the most clear and information packed update I've seen yet. I'm slowly warming up to the subscription model.

  • Doc B
    Doc B Member Posts: 3,551 ✭✭✭

    • Premium: $6.99/month or $69.99/year (for those with Bronze features or higher)
    • Pro: $9.99/month or $99.99/year (for those with Silver features or higher)
    • Max: $12.99/month or $129.99/year (requires Full Feature Set)

    Does this mean it would be a waste of money for someone with L10 FFS to subscribe at the Premium or Pro level?

    Or does it mean that someone who does not have the L10 FFS can't use the Max tools?

    Eating a steady diet of government cheese, and living in a van down by the river.

  • 1Cor10 31
    1Cor10 31 Member Posts: 746 ✭✭

    First, new libraries will be available for subscribers to purchase.

    • At launch, we'll offer Starter through Collectors, and some great new content will be included in those libraries. As usual, those libraries are discounted at around 90%. Libraries are yours to keep, and dynamic pricing means you won't pay twice if you already own some of the books.

    • We'll also have some new libraries based around specific use cases, similar to the Academic, Preaching Suite, and Counseling libraries we offer with Logos 10. These libraries will align with our three subscription tiers, so there will be one set of libraries aimed at small group leaders, one set aimed at preachers, and one set aimed at those who love the original languages.

    • Early next year, those libraries will be joined by brand new denominational libraries.

    Will library prices vary depending on whether you are a subscriber or not?

    OR

    Will the libraries never be available for purchase if not a subscriber?

    I believe in a Win-Win-Win God.

  • Wallace Kunin
    Wallace Kunin Member Posts: 6

    I know you guys are finalizing pricing for non Logos 10 subscribers but that is the key piece of information that determines if buying the Logos 10 packages during the farewell sale makes sense.  If I'm a small group leader that may subscribe to Premium or maybe even the lower tier that was hinted, how do i know if spending $200 for Bronze is worth it without some sort of ballpark idea of what the full price of premium is?  It has to make sense that it won't take me 5+ years to recoup that investment.  Plus, the full feature set is not much more, so does it make sense for me to pay 286 for that vs 191 for bronze feature set.  I currently have starter.

  • Jeff Rodrigues
    Jeff Rodrigues Member Posts: 47 ✭✭

    Next, let me say something more about perks that we'll include when the subscription is fully launched.

    • We've previously announced that every subscriber will receive a 5% discount storewide. This discount applies to everything in our store. The only exceptions are subscriptions, credit purchases (like Book Cache and gift cards), bulk purchases, and Pre-Pub and pre-order titles.

    • Each subscription plan will also include Mobile Ed courses, which we'll freshen up every quarter or so to give you the chance to learn from various instructors and about a range of topics. The courses will be specially selected to complement the use case of each tier. The bigger tiers will also receive more courses each quarter.

    • We've also previously announced that Logos 10 owners will also be able to qualify for the Legacy Fallback License. This means that if you remain subscribed for 24 consecutive months, you'll be your features, even if you subsequently cancel your subscription. (A few features, especially those cloud-backed or AI-based, will be excluded from the Legacy Fallback License.) The legacy fallback license will be available in October 2026, so if you qualify before then because you're part of early access, you'll need to wait until October before you receive it. If you qualify after that, we'll give you the license as soon as you qualify.

    • We're planning additional perks and hope to say more about them soon.

    We've also had lots of questions about pricing. We’re working out final pricing for everyone, but we can confirm what the discounted pricing will be for Logos 10 owners:

    • Premium: $6.99/month or $69.99/year (for those with Bronze features or higher)
    • Pro: $9.99/month or $99.99/year (for those with Silver features or higher)
    • Max: $12.99/month or $129.99/year (requires Full Feature Set)

    For anyone like myself that owns the L10 full feature set, who has zero interest in A.I. features and rented books in the Logos subscriptions, zero interest in a 5% discount storewide, and zero interest in the included Mobile Ed courses, here's a question that needs to be asked.  Why should we risk paying a subscription for two years in order to keep all features covered under the Legacy Fallback License (a total cost of either $139.98 for premium, $199.98 for full, or $259.98 for max), considering that we don't know in advance what all of those keepable features will be under the Legacy Fallback License?  I think this is a very fair question, and it needs to be asked.

  • Mark Barnes (Logos)
    Mark Barnes (Logos) Administrator, Logos Employee Posts: 1,893

    Does this mean it would be a waste of money for someone with L10 FFS to subscribe at the Premium or Pro level?

    Or does it mean that someone who does not have the L10 FFS can't use the Max tools?

    The latter. If you want the discount on Pro, you need Silver or the full feature set. If you want the discount on Max, you need the full feature set.

  • Mark Barnes (Logos)
    Mark Barnes (Logos) Administrator, Logos Employee Posts: 1,893

    Will library prices vary depending on whether you are a subscriber or not?

    OR

    Will the libraries never be available for purchase if not a subscriber?

    Current libraries have always been restricted to those who own a current feature set or a subscription, and we're not changing this restriction. You won't need a paid subscription to buy a library – a free trial will be sufficient.

  • Tony Walker
    Tony Walker Member Posts: 4

    I'm still not clear on the previous charges. I paid for a faith life connect renewal I think in May. then I paid 9.99 for a couple of months or so for the Logos AI stuff. then I paid for the 129.99. Then I saw a post that said something about the fiathlife would be refunded and applied to the Max. then I looked at the order history and saw all sorts of addition and subtraction that I couldn't follow that had happened to the previous order. I assume that is the company going back and doing what was said, but I couldn't follow whatever math was going on. without sounding silly, this is the same reason I struggle to play uno or chess.

    would you mind looking at my account and just a simple yes or no if whatever needed to happen has happened as far as charges go. thank you. I tried chatting with customer support maybe few weeks or so ago, but that got confusing for me too. 

  • PL
    PL Member Posts: 2,134 ✭✭✭

    Each subscription plan will also include Mobile Ed courses, which we'll freshen up every quarter or so to give you the chance to learn from various instructors and about a range of topics. The courses will be specially selected to complement the use case of each tier. The bigger tiers will also receive more courses each quarter.

    Hi Mark,

    For the Mobile Ed courses:

    a) Are they only limited to the ones Logos curates for subscribers every quarter or so, or do we get to pick 1-2 Mobile Ed courses per quarter to peruse?

    b) Are they for the subscribers to keep, or only available for access during that quarter?

  • PL
    PL Member Posts: 2,134 ✭✭✭

    We'll also have some new libraries based around specific use cases, similar to the Academic, Preaching Suite, and Counseling libraries we offer with Logos 10. These libraries will align with our three subscription tiers, so there will be one set of libraries aimed at small group leaders, one set aimed at preachers, and one set aimed at those who love the original languages.

    Will we be able purchase these specialty libraries across our subscription tier (e.g. a Pro user purchasing a Premium or Max library if that better fits their need)?

    Is this tier-based libraries model a replacement of the previous S-M-L library sizing model?

  • 1Cor10 31
    1Cor10 31 Member Posts: 746 ✭✭

    1Cor10 31">

    Will library prices vary depending on whether you are a subscriber or not?

    OR

    Will the libraries never be available for purchase if not a subscriber?

    Current libraries have always been restricted to those who own a current feature set or a subscription, and we're not changing this restriction. You won't need a paid subscription to buy a library – a free trial will be sufficient.

    Hi Mark,


    Thanks for responding. I didn't realize that buying features was a necessary condition for buying packages bcos I bought feature set anyways. Thanks for pointing out trial subscription as a way forward. How many times can we do trial subscription (over a calendar year or 12 month period)? The reason I'm asking is because I rarely buy all my packages at one shot.  


    I've bought different Logos 10 libraries in 7 different occasions (Jul 24, May 24, Dec 23, Nov 23, Aug 23, Dec 22, Nov 22). The reason I don't buy it all at one go is that (i) my interest in certain resources get piqued at different points in time and I always try to get the libraries that contains the resource rather than the individual resource, and (ii) the dynamic pricing kicks in after each library purchase and lowers the library cost that contains the resource that I'm interested in. And the new price makes it more attractive to purchase the library.


    If I can do only one trial subscription, I will have to be content to make my first purchase with a trial subscription and then wait for the latest library to become legacy library to purchase it. 


    I know you're super busy, but would love an answer when you get the time.

    I believe in a Win-Win-Win God.

  • Mark Barnes (Logos)
    Mark Barnes (Logos) Administrator, Logos Employee Posts: 1,893

    For the Mobile Ed courses:

    a) Are they only limited to the ones Logos curates for subscribers every quarter or so, or do we get to pick 1-2 Mobile Ed courses per quarter to peruse?

    b) Are they for the subscribers to keep, or only available for access during that quarter?

    They will be limited to the ones we curate, and you'll be able to access them during that quarter, so long as you remain a subscriber.

  • Mark Barnes (Logos)
    Mark Barnes (Logos) Administrator, Logos Employee Posts: 1,893

    Will we be able purchase these specialty libraries across our subscription tier (e.g. a Pro user purchasing a Premium or Max library if that better fits their need)?

    I'm pretty sure there won't be restrictions placed on which libraries you can buy. So even if you're a Logos Premium subscriber, you would still be able to purchase a library aimed at Max subscribers.

    Is this tier-based libraries model a replacement of the previous S-M-L library sizing model?

    No, it's in addition to that.

    It's not 100% confirmed yet, but I think it is likely there will be:

    • Standard track: Starter through Collectors
    • "Lay leaders" track: Starter through Gold
    • "Preachers" track: Bronze through Diamond
    • "Original languages" track: Silver through Portfolio

    The libraries in each track will be different, so Standard Gold is different to "Preachers" Gold, just like standard Gold is currently different to "Baptist" Gold. Standard Gold will be a generalist library, whereas "Preachers" Gold will be a similar sized and priced library but focussed on books that should specifically help preachers.

    If so, that would be 22 libraries in total in English –  at least until the denominational libraries come on stream early next year.

  • Mark Barnes (Logos)
    Mark Barnes (Logos) Administrator, Logos Employee Posts: 1,893

    How many times can we do trial subscription (over a calendar year or 12 month period)?

    Just once, I'm afraid.

    If you wanted to buy additional libraries later on, the worst-case scenario would be to take out a one-month subscription to the cheapest tier. That would also get you a subscriber-exclusive 5% additional discount on the library, so I doubt it would add much to your overall cost, and it may, in fact, be cheaper.

  • Mark Barnes (Logos)
    Mark Barnes (Logos) Administrator, Logos Employee Posts: 1,893

    would you mind looking at my account and just a simple yes or no if whatever needed to happen has happened as far as charges go. thank you. I tried chatting with customer support maybe few weeks or so ago, but that got confusing for me too. 

    I've asked one of our CS reps to look at this for you.

  • Aaron Hamilton
    Aaron Hamilton Member Posts: 822 ✭✭✭

    They will be limited to the ones we curate, and you'll be able to access them during that quarter, so long as you remain a subscriber.

    Am I correct in assuming that the Mobile Ed courses will follow the same structure as the subscriptions, in the sense that Pro will include the all videos from Premium plus more, and Max will include all the videos from Pro and Premium, plus additional courses specific to that tier?

    One thought I would like to submit: Would you be willing to consider allowing subscribers to choose a certain number of Mobile Ed courses to unlock per quarter? Let's say one month I really want to watch a video on an original-language feature that isn't included in the curated selection. I could unlock that one video for that one quarter, and the count would reset at the beginning of the next quarter. This would allow users the ability to obtain access to highly-relevant content. Example: Premium subscribers would be able to unlock one video per quarter, Pro subscribers 2, and Max subscribers 3. Perhaps this would be too difficult to implement. But it was worth a try...

  • Aaron Hamilton
    Aaron Hamilton Member Posts: 822 ✭✭✭

    We've previously announced that every subscriber will receive a 5% discount storewide. This discount applies to everything in our store. The only exceptions are subscriptions, credit purchases (like Book Cache and gift cards), bulk purchases, and Pre-Pub and pre-order titles.

    Will this discount be on top of sales or the academic discount, or will the 5% be replaced by the larger discount?

  • Mark Barnes (Logos)
    Mark Barnes (Logos) Administrator, Logos Employee Posts: 1,893

    Am I correct in assuming that the Mobile Ed courses will follow the same structure as the subscriptions, in the sense that Pro will include the all videos from Premium plus more, and Max will include all the videos from Pro and Premium, plus additional courses specific to that tier?

    I think that's the plan, yes.

    One thought I would like to submit: Would you be willing to consider allowing subscribers to choose a certain number of Mobile Ed courses to unlock per quarter?

    I'll pass the suggestion on.

  • 1Cor10 31
    1Cor10 31 Member Posts: 746 ✭✭

    1Cor10 31">How many times can we do trial subscription (over a calendar year or 12 month period)?

    Just once, I'm afraid.

    If you wanted to buy additional libraries later on, the worst-case scenario would be to take out a one-month subscription to the cheapest tier. That would also get you a subscriber-exclusive 5% additional discount on the library, so I doubt it would add much to your overall cost, and it may, in fact, be cheaper.

    Thanks Mark. 

    • We've previously announced that every subscriber will receive a 5% discount storewide. This discount applies to everything in our store. The only exceptions are subscriptions, credit purchases (like Book Cache and gift cards), bulk purchases, and Pre-Pub and pre-order titles.
    • Logos Pro and Logos Max subscribers will get two additional perks. Firstly, they'll get free access to the premium features in Logos Sermons. But they will also get a 5% annual rewards coupon (a coupon worth 5% of your previous year’s spend).

    We can confirm what the discounted pricing will be for Logos 10 owners:

    • Premium: $6.99/month or $69.99/year (for those with Bronze features or higher)
    • Pro: $9.99/month or $99.99/year (for those with Silver features or higher)
    • Max: $12.99/month or $129.99/year (requires Full Feature Set)

    Given the 5% discount and the 5% reward, it is approximately 10% cheaper (9.75% if you want to be precise). It will be "cheaper" as long as Logos doesn't adjust the price upward knowing that customers will have to be paid 10% back.

    Thus, given pricing of $70/year, $100/year, $130/year, it seems that you can get your subscription price back IF you spend approximately $700, $1000, and $1300 in a year. If you spend half that amount, you get half the premium back. For people who like to spend a lot on library, the subscription model might be cheaper than previous model.

    I believe in a Win-Win-Win God.

  • Matt Hamrick
    Matt Hamrick Member Posts: 663 ✭✭

    Releasing the libraries like this makes it hard for those of us who purchase the Ultimate base packages. Is there no Ultimate base package this release or do I have to wait until early next year for the Denominational base packages?

  • MJ. Smith
    MJ. Smith MVP Posts: 53,210

    If so, that would be 22 libraries in total in English –  at least until the denominational libraries come on stream early next year.

    Just an FYI - this approach is likely to delay my purchasing of any libraries unless there are compelling resources. My usual approach is to buy the denomination packages of interest to me (Anglican, Catholic, Orthodox, and optionally Lutheran) then check to see what a Standard package would offer. When it is primarily "noise" I pass. Other times, I find it a useful addition. 

    Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."

  • DMB
    DMB Member Posts: 13,506 ✭✭✭

    Yep. Orthodox, and see if any more Orthodox (scholarly). 

    "If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.

  • David Wanat
    David Wanat Member Posts: 1,832 ✭✭✭

    While I’m on the fence about subscribing, at least it’s no longer a definite no as it was in the past. I guess it depends on how many tool I need. 

    WIN 11 i7 9750H, RTX 2060, 16GB RAM, 1TB SSD | iPad Air 3
    Verbum Max

  • 1Cor10 31
    1Cor10 31 Member Posts: 746 ✭✭

    If so, that would be 22 libraries in total in English –  at least until the denominational libraries come on stream early next year.

    Just an FYI - this approach is likely to delay my purchasing of any libraries unless there are compelling resources. 

    I agree with MJ. I am looking to see which library will offer me the best way to purchase resources that I am interested in. If I don't have the full menu of libraries to choose from, I will have no choice but to wait for all the libraries to be released.

     

    I believe in a Win-Win-Win God.

  • Mark Barnes (Logos)
    Mark Barnes (Logos) Administrator, Logos Employee Posts: 1,893

    Thus, given pricing of $70/year, $100/year, $130/year, it seems that you can get your subscription price back IF you spend approximately $700, $1000, and $1300 in a year. If you spend half that amount, you get half the premium back. For people who like to spend a lot on library, the subscription model might be cheaper than previous model.

    That's certainly true for people who are getting the discount as L10 owners, yes.

  • Mark Barnes (Logos)
    Mark Barnes (Logos) Administrator, Logos Employee Posts: 1,893

    Releasing the libraries like this makes it hard for those of us who purchase the Ultimate base packages. Is there no Ultimate base package this release or do I have to wait until early next year for the Denominational base packages?

    I'm in that category, too! I'll try to find out.

  • Mark Barnes (Logos)
    Mark Barnes (Logos) Administrator, Logos Employee Posts: 1,893

    Releasing the libraries like this makes it hard for those of us who purchase the Ultimate base packages. Is there no Ultimate base package this release or do I have to wait until early next year for the Denominational base packages?

    Ultimate will be available with the denominational packages.

  • Joe McCune (Faithlife)
    Joe McCune (Faithlife) Member, Community Manager, Logos Employee Posts: 1,138

    would you mind looking at my account and just a simple yes or no if whatever needed to happen has happened as far as charges go. thank you. I tried chatting with customer support maybe few weeks or so ago, but that got confusing for me too.

    Tony,

    Yes, everything that needed to happen, has happened!

    Thanks for your understanding during this transition.

  • Mattillo
    Mattillo Member Posts: 6,114 ✭✭✭

    • Each subscription plan will also include Mobile Ed courses, which we'll freshen up every quarter or so to give you the chance to learn from various instructors and about a range of topics. The courses will be specially selected to complement the use case of each tier. The bigger tiers will also receive more courses each quarter.

    Do these get added to our library automatically or will it work like it does now where we get a code and purchase a 180-license to view them? I would also like to see, though it hasn't happened in a while, where the course(s) of a month get a large discount if we want to keep them. It would be better if we just could but that is not cost friendly to you... :)

    Also, I haven't seen it mentioned ever so I assuming these are DOA but the 3 free connect books and lexham discount are gone forever?

  • Frank Sauer
    Frank Sauer Member Posts: 1,646 ✭✭✭

    We've also previously announced that Logos 10 owners will also be able to qualify for the Legacy Fallback License. This means that if you remain subscribed for 24 consecutive months, you'll be your features, even if you subsequently cancel your subscription. (A few features, especially those cloud-backed or AI-based, will be excluded from the Legacy Fallback License.) The legacy fallback license will be available in October 2026, so if you qualify before then because you're part of early access, you'll need to wait until October before you receive it. If you qualify after that, we'll give you the license as soon as you qualify.

    We are still waiting on the list of which Features are included and excluded from the Legacy Fallback License....

    Which could have an impact on this:

    Finally, you may have noticed our Logos 10 Farewell Sale that is happening now. Here are two reasons you’ll want to upgrade to Logos 10 (if you haven’t already) before the new subscription releases:

    1. You save today: You’ll get the best discounts we’ve ever offered on Logos 10 feature upgrades, libraries, and complete packages.
    2. You’ll save tomorrow: You’ll also get the best discount on the subscription version of Logos when you buy a Logos 10 Full Feature Upgrade or a Logos 10 Gold package (or above). Dynamic pricing also means you'll likely pay less for our next-generation Logos libraries if you purchase a discounted Logos 10 library today.

    IIRC, L10 Full Feature Owners have a grandfathered position on some cloud/AI related that it was not clear whether those features would be part of the Fallback License or not...

    We have just over 1 week left for the sale - yet no information on what is or is not included with the Fallback - clarity on that information may be useful in the decision making process for some who do not yet own the Full Feature Set....

    Logos 10 - OpenSuse Tumbleweed, Windows 11, Android 15 & Android 14