Indexing Nightmare Logos 4

The concept was great, the design is terribly flawed. It is so bad I sometimes wonder why I'm even using logos 4. On a "heavily used business computer" like mine, the operator must be able to control the Logos indexing process if the computer is to be used for any other fairly sophisticated programs. If I turn off Logos access to the Internet I will not know when I have updates that need to be downloaded!! The computer user needs to be able to completely control the indexing process (i.e. immediately stopping, suspending, starting or re-starting the Logo indexing program at any point) and the "progression of this process saved if interrupted". Right now if I need to shut down or restart my computer I lose all the time spent indexing and have to start all over again.

My suggestion is that you put within the Logos pop-up window (from the toolbar) a mini program that lets me manually control the indexing process & notifies the me if an update is available WITHOUT actually loading it, OR indexing. I want control of my machine back!!

Until this Logos 4 indexing problem is rectified I am no longer recommending your software. And I am recommending that your software not be used on any machine except a "dedicated Logos machine".

Dr. Nels Nelson III

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DominicM

Nels.

Sorry you are having a bad experience, I use Logos on my work machine.. my experience is better than yours..

The only thing I can suggest is if you are able to hibernate instead of shutting down, your indexing will carry on where you left it, you are correct that shutting down restarts the process.

MJ. Smith

Nels,

I hope that the performance complaints on the forums can help Logos identify the problematic areas - I have a machine that is old but was optimized for databases when it was built. I can have Logos 4 indexing and be using Dreamweaver or Stylus Studio at the same time with no perceptible performance hit. I count myself as lucky and wish I knew why I don't have a problem as it might help Logos solve the problem for others.

Nels Nelson

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/131948#Comment_131948

Thanks for the reply. My computer runs really clean also and because I'm fairly adept at solving computer problems my frustration is only that Logos couldn't have designed a better indexing program. I currently run 4 programs that index large amounts of data on this same machine and have no problems at all. My current database is 897 clients and I'm running 3 proprietary software programs that are in the neighborhood of 10 GB each.

So the problem is getting Logos to recognize their design flaws and have them update the current software so it is more user friendly. All computer programs function exactly as designed. Sometimes the design is just not real efficient or well thought out from the users point of view.

Doc

Dave Hooton

If I turn off Logos access to the Internet I will not know when I have updates that need to be downloaded!!

It will help to have Automatically Download updates = NO in Program Settings. It provides a notification that you can ignore until you are ready. Then it will download and Index - but you can still Cancel the download or Pause the indexing.

The computer user needs to be able to completely control the indexing process (i.e. immediately stopping, suspending, starting or re-starting the Logo indexing program at any point) and the "progression of this process saved if interrupted".

You can Pause indexing and/or hibernate the computer for more control. Indexing speed has improved significantly since 4.0 came out last year and Logos are well aware of user concerns.

JimTowler

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/132033#Comment_132033

Logos4 appears to read and index one resource at a time (or maybe one per CPU core?).

What it needs, is to be able to remember state, and continue from the next resource until completed.

It would be OK if I clicked some kind of "finish the current resource" and it took a minute or so and then shutdown indexing. We could restart it at will.

Maybe even automatic:

If we start using the PC, it completes the current one(s), then sleeps the index processing
If the PC is idle for more than X minutes, it restarts

Maybe this will be less important if the index-merge returns in 4.0d, but the above still seems like a good design for when a complete reindex is required.

Dave Hooton

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/132077#Comment_132077

Logos4 appears to read and index one resource at a time (or maybe one per CPU core?).

L4 will create as many threads for indexing as the CPU has cores - 4 threads for quad core (irrespective of hyper-threading). One resource per thread.

Maybe even automatic:

If we start using the PC, it completes the current one(s), then sleeps the index processing

If the PC is idle for more than X minutes, it restarts

I know one program that supports that kind of intelligence for de-fragmenting the hard drive. You can even tell it when not to de-fragment but indexing is not a continuous process nor do you want it to continue for too long. Given the above on threads vs cores, the indexer could allow a choice of threads to allocate eg. 1 or 2 on dual core, 1 to 4 on quad core.

Rich DeRuiter

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/131953#Comment_131953

So the problem is getting Logos to recognize their design flaws and have them update the current software so it is more user friendly. All computer programs function exactly as designed. Sometimes the design is just not real efficient or well thought out from the users point of view.

As a matter of fact, I heard Dale P. say that they continue to work on indexing issues. The size and complexity of these databases is beyond anything else in the general public, as so much of the Biblical data (e.g.) is layered with many different data types (consider all the relationships in a reverse interlinear, for example).

But this is a high priority for them, and we should see the databases and therefore the indexing improve as the program progresses.

Stephen Miller

Nels,

I also have your indexing problems.

As a result I use L3 most of the time (printing is the second big lack in L4).

I used L4 tonight and 1.24G of updates started to download. My guess is I will spend the next week indexing all over again.

Stephen Miller

Sydney, Australia

Jonathan Burke

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/132399#Comment_132399

My machine takes just under 4 hours to index 20GB of resources. I don't find this an inconvenience, and I can still use all my other programs at the same time. This is also while running a distributed computing client on the CPU, and another distributed computing client on the GPU.

Nels Nelson

Thanks to you who are following this thread. And I do know that the system is improving we are just not "there yet" and I'm anxious to get there!

To Dave Hooton: I have now set the "Automatic downloads = NO" Thanks for the suggestion, I guess I misinterpreted this that I would get no notification of updates in this configuration. Opps. We'll see how this works.

Concerning your comment "L4 creates as many threads as the CPU has cores", I don't understand because I am running a Pentium 4 at 2.6 GB with 2 GB of memory and a XP operating system which is tuned to be a database handler and I frequently use another program that commonly creates 1500+ threads at once. At least that's what the operator's monitoring screen says???

In considering ways to make this indexing problem more "user & computer friendly" a thought occurred to me, why couldn't the programmers set L4 up to do a "progressively segmented" type of indexing? Wouldn't there be a way to divide up any library ( maybe according to the number of books or types or other) and then have each "segment" indexed to itself "before" being indexed to the larger whole. I hope I'm making sense, don't know if this is possible or not but it's a thought.

Dave Hooton

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/132809#Comment_132809

Concerning your comment "L4 creates as many threads as the CPU has cores", I don't understand

The context was the Logos4 Indexer program, so "L4 creates as many threads as the CPU has cores when indexing resources". On a quad-core up to 4 resources can be indexed at once. The Indexer uses at least one additional thread for supervising the process. One might expect many hundreds/thousands of threads on a database server which has to be very responsive to user input.

Dave Hooton

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/132809#Comment_132809

Wouldn't there be a way to divide up any library ( maybe according to the number of books or types or other) and then have each "segment" indexed to itself "before" being indexed to the larger whole.

I know what you mean. The current Indexer creates/re-indexes a "segment", called a supplemental index, when resources are updated or added but it remains separate from the main index until the user decides to rebuild the whole index or until the Indexer decides that is necessary. So when a few books are added to your library the indexing can take minutes instead of hours.

A Merge operation has being re-introduced into the 4.0d Beta program and this is significantly quicker than rebuilding the whole index when it is necessary to combine the supplemental index and main index.

Pastor Ray

Dr. I agree. The Logos Indexing is a resource hog. It will eat every available resource and make your pc impossible to use in any other program. I use "Ctrl-Alt-Delete" and go to the processs and manually turn it off. I feel my money may have been watsed with Logos 4 and find myself using Logos 3 and "YouVersion" more often.

Pastor Ray Johnson

Rich DeRuiter

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/451597#Comment_451597

Dr. I agree. The Logos Indexing is a resource hog. It will eat every available resource and make your pc impossible to use in any other program. I use "Ctrl-Alt-Delete" and go to the processs and manually turn it off. I feel my money may have been watsed with Logos 4 and find myself using Logos 3 and "YouVersion" more often.

Pastor Ray Johnson

Welcome to the forums Ray!

You do know that you can right-click on the indexing notification icon in the system tray (in Windows) and pause the indexing process for 4 hours. Right? Pausing is strongly preferred over killing the process, since by pausing you won't lose any progress indexing has made. Of course, certain things won't work well until indexing is finished, but you can pause your indexing process until a time when you can run it while you are away from the computer.

The first time indexing runs it can take a very long time. After that, it usually only takes a few minutes (depending on the size of the update). Logos has made significant improvements in the speed of indexing, so make sure you've updated to the latest version as well.

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/451600#Comment_451600

Other than digging up an older thread, the ironies here are interesting. I use Libronix3 about 95% of the time.

But I DO want Logos5 to do its indexing, since that's all I use it for (plus keeping up with Stonewall Jackson, of course).

Nels Nelson

Who HACKED MY ACCOUNT! AND MORE IMPORTANTLY WHY AND HOW!

I, (Pastor - Dr. Nels A. Nelson III at nanelson@fiberpipe.net) have NEVER entered a post here and I am TOTALLY OUTRAGED that Logos security is so poor, lacking, inadequate, and primitive that someone (mainly ME) who has never corresponded in this way with anyone on your website at any time is now the center of a thread of problems that don't even concern me!

LOGOS what are you doing!! WHO ARE YOU!

Now as the "primary" of a problem that doesn't even concern me how did this happen?!?! Oh yes I could give you (LOGOS) some horror stories about your software, but this Thread IS NOT ME!! I have remained silent and patient with you (LOGOS) while you experiment on us while I pay the price; but this is TOO much. What other personal and private information have you exposed to the world?

WHAT ELSE ARE YOU DOING WITH MY ACCOUNT WITHOUT MY KNOWLEDGE OR INVOLVEMENT!! I have half a notion to write off my $2500 dollar investment in your company & change my credit card (& future planned purchases) and go elsewhere or simply go back to hard back books!

SHAME ON YOU!

Dr. Nels A Nelson III - A simple Bi-Vocational Pastor in Sheridan,WY that doesn't need this kind of problem.

PS ... IF anyone even cares to try to explain this ... a CALL on the phone might help show you (LOGOS) is awake.

Nels Nelson

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/452070#Comment_452070

OOPS THIS IS EMBARRASSING ... I DID POST THIS PROBLEM SEVERAL YEARS AGO! NOW I'M RED FACED!!

I'M NOW USING VER 5 AND SOME OF THE INITIAL BUGS OF VER 4 HAVE BEEN WORKED OUT.

THE REASON I WROTE WHAT IT DID - I JUST SPENT 4 DAYS REBUILDING MY ENTIRE COMPUTER AFTER THE UPGRADE TO VER 5 CAUSED PROBLEMS TO THE POINT THAT I HAD TO "WIPE THE WHOLE DRIVE" AND START ALL OVER FROM SCRATCH!!

SORRY FOLKS.

"DOC" NELSON

I hate old posts.

Nels Nelson

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/452074#Comment_452074

LOOK BEFORE YOU LEAP FOLKS!! Even when so pressed you can't see straight!

A learning "Doc" - Praise God HE ISN'T DONE WITH ME YET!!

fgh

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/452074#Comment_452074

FYI, you have about 10 hours to use More > Edit, if you should want to.[:)]