My major ongoing complaint with Logos has not changed

Logos outsourced all of its training almost from the dawn of its history. That approach has resulted in an ongoing lack of focus on helping users get the most out of Logos software from within the program.

I upgraded to the subscription model and now find that the "resource panel" has disappeared. I have absolutely no clue how to change the text size of an individual resource, which was previously easy.

So, one would normally go to the help function, but IT HAS NOT BEEN UPDATED to reflect this change.

IT IS SIMPLY NOT ACCEPTABLE TO CHANGE A PROGRAM'S BASIC FUNCTIONALITY AND LEAVE USERS STRANDED TRYING TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO ACCOMPLISH BASIC TASKS.

Is Logos intentionally trying to make me angry?

I am now regretting having gone to the subscription model as I expect more frustration lies ahead.

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Comments

Andrew Batishko

The Logos Help book was updated with information on the new toolbar. You can find the text size documented at this location: https://ref.ly/logosres/logos4help?hw=Resource+Panel&off=9093 (it's found on the View tab)

It's possible that you hadn't yet downloaded the updated Help book at the time you went looking.

Rod Bergen

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1322027#Comment_1322027

The Logos Help book was updated with information on the new toolbar. You can find the text size documented at this location: https://ref.ly/logosres/logos4help?hw=Resource+Panel&off=9093 (it's found on the View tab)

Thanks for pointing me to the right place. But I shouldn't have had to come to the forums to get may question answered.

Why do you have to make things so hard to find? None of the search links led me to the information you posted. Rather, they take me to the reference in the help information that you HAVEM'T changed.

Rod Bergen

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1322027#Comment_1322027

The Logos Help book was updated with information on the new toolbar. You can find the text size documented at this location: https://ref.ly/logosres/logos4help?hw=Resource+Panel&off=9093 (it's found on the View tab)

I should also add that the information in Logos Help is incorrect. It states

Zoom: - % + — Click the plus or minus buttons to adjust the content scaling for the selected tab.

But pressing the % key with either the plus or minus buttons does nothing (in Windows 11). Rather, one is required to press the CTRL key along with either the = or - button.

Andrew Batishko

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1322030#Comment_1322030

I had noticed the same thing with the support articles linked in the Help Center, and I asked our User Education team about this. They let me know that they are currently in the process of working through a very large back log of support articles updating them, so this situation should be improving over time.

I'll also ask our Help Center development team if it might make sense to deprioritize some of these results a little more to help make it easier to find the correct information.

Andrew Batishko

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1322032#Comment_1322032

I should also add that the information in Logos Help is incorrect. It states

Zoom: - % + — Click the plus or minus buttons to adjust the content scaling for the selected tab.

But pressing the % key with either the plus or minus buttons does nothing (in Windows 11). Rather, one is required to press the CTRL key along with either the = or - button.

Ah, I was a little confused. I didn't realize that text was meant to indicate the keyboard shortcuts. The keyboard shortcuts near the back of the Help book are listed correctly for this. I'll let our User Education team know about this so that it can be corrected.

Kristen Tetteh

Rod, as the new Dynamic Toolbar launched we are working to update all articles in the Help file in Logos, in addition to the Help articles on our website.

For your particular request, this article shows you how to change the size of text using the Dynamic Toolbar. https://support.logos.com/hc/en-us/articles/29439681440525-Where-do-I-find-on-the-dynamic-toolbar#TextSlider

We hear and receive your feedback and will continue working hard to provide you the help resources you need.

Kristen Tetteh

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1322073#Comment_1322073

Wanted to follow up to point you to an upcoming webinar from the Logos Customer Success team that will cover the Dynamic Toolbar, in addition other features.

https://www.bigmarker.com/logos/Easy-and-Effective-Bible-Study

As you may know, we have a dedicated Customer Success team now that leads multiple live training webinars per week.

Rod Bergen

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1322108#Comment_1322108

Wanted to follow up to point you to an upcoming webinar from the Logos Customer Success team that will cover the Dynamic Toolbar, in addition other features.

https://www.bigmarker.com/logos/Easy-and-Effective-Bible-Study

Thanks! My problem is that I have been using Logos since the Libronix days. As a result, most of the webinars are just too basic. I want to know what has changed and, more importantly, where all the stuff that I regularly use has been relocated to. It almost seems Logos hides it intentionally (can you feel my frustration?)

I think you do a great job with new users. But for us old folks? Not so much.

scooter

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1322073#Comment_1322073

For your particular request, this article shows you how to change the size of text using the Dynamic Toolbar. https://support.logos.com/hc/en-us/articles/29439681440525-Where-do-I-find-on-the-dynamic-toolbar#TextSlider

We hear and receive your feedback

There are 2 pictures here. The left is the old way....Is the right one the new Toolbar way?

It looks to me as if each picture does the same thing...But, where is the written explanation re what to do?

Graham Criddle

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1322247#Comment_1322247

Can you give a specific example of where you are looking for written instructions and they are not there?

or is that generally the case ?

Frank Sauer

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1322073#Comment_1322073

For your particular request, this article shows you how to change the size of text using the Dynamic Toolbar. https://support.logos.com/hc/en-us/articles/29439681440525-Where-do-I-find-on-the-dynamic-toolbar#TextSlider

We hear and receive your feedback and will continue working hard to provide you the help resources you need.

Even the support article clearly shows less efficiency to accomplish the same goals....

GaoLu

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1322254#Comment_1322254

Remember when we used to alpha/beta test "improvements" before users encountered them? That sure didn't fix everything, but it helped. Now the general user beta tests--sort of--Logos says they listen, and little changes in response to user feedback, that I can detect. Probably some things do change. I miss the old days already. Still, Logos is an amazing tool and in some ways is improving.

Frank Sauer

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1322259#Comment_1322259

Remember when we used to alpha/beta test "improvements" before users encountered them? That sure didn't fix everything, but it helped. Now the general user beta tests--sort of--Logos says they listen, and little changes in response to user feedback, that I can detect. Probably some things do change. I miss the old days already. Still, Logos is an amazing tool and in some ways is improving.

I'm trying to understand how they think that more clicks = more efficient or improved?

When I want to access my Interlinears - it is one click On, one click OFF.... Simple and Efficient!

Now, it takes fours clicks - three to access on and off plus an additional to click View to regain the screen space from the secondary menu....

Rod Bergen

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1322073#Comment_1322073

We hear and receive your feedback and will continue working hard to provide you the help resources you need.

Here is another problem - It is no longer easy to switch the interlinear window in a specific Bible translation on or off. This used to be one click and now - WHERE DID IT GO?

Do you UNDERSTAND how frustrating this is to those of us who have used Logos for over a decade? You move something but then don't tell us where it went!!!

AAARRRGGGGHHHHH!!!!!

Brian Leathers

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1322297#Comment_1322297

Go to the VIEW tab and you will find the Interlinear option:

Rod Bergen

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1322310#Comment_1322310

Thanks, Brian.

I know this stuff is located somewhere, and I greatly appreciate your help!

Mark Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1322330#Comment_1322330

Rod, The following link takes you to a free webinar done yesterday by Joshua Rowe, Logos Certified Trainer with MP Seminars. While there is advertising along the way, I think as an older user you'd find this helpful in addressing new features.

https://event.webinarjam.com/live/91/pq93wc48i71h16rvs3q9p (Sorry, link works only for those who registered to see the original webinar. I've asked MPSeminars if they'd put it with their free material. If they do, I'll post the new link.)

New link: https://mpseminars.com/webinars/the-next-era-of-logos-mp

scooter

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1322250#Comment_1322250

Can you give a specific example of where you are looking for written instructions and they are not there?

or is that generally the case ?

Kristen's text-size slider instructions has 2 screen shots. The left shot has the slider I use to resize the print.

The right-hand shot does not show on my screen in a book. Is it part of the Subscription Toolbar? I don't know, as there are no written instructions with it.

Mark Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1322356#Comment_1322356

Is it part of the Subscription Toolbar? I don't know, as there are no written instructions with it.

The top of that web page says (my emphasis):

Where do I find . . . on the dynamic toolbar?

A Logos subscription brings with it a new look to the toolbar at the top of the panels in your layout, providing a set of tabs enabling you to interact with your books in a variety of different ways. Those who choose not to subscribe will continue with the previous resource toolbar.

scooter

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1322362#Comment_1322362

Is it part of the Subscription Toolbar? I don't know, as there are no written instructions with it.

The top of that web page says (my emphasis):

Where do I find . . . on the dynamic toolbar?

I run pre-subscription Logos 8. Thanks, Mark.

A Logos subscription brings with it a new look to the toolbar at the top of the panels in your layout, providing a set of tabs enabling you to interact with your books in a variety of different ways. Those who choose not to subscribe will continue with the previous resource toolbar.

Mark Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1322374#Comment_1322374

I run pre-subscription Logos 8.

Any reason you haven't moved up to Logos 10? It's free.

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1322409#Comment_1322409

Any reason you haven't moved up to Logos 10? It's free.

In fact, Logos tried to move everyone onto some version of 10 before they dropped support for lower versions.

Ron Ferguson

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1322349#Comment_1322349

Mark, when you click on the link it takes you to a sign in page, then after you sign in it tells you you’re to late the webinar is over. Do you know any place else to watch it?

Mark Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1322413#Comment_1322413

Do you know any place else to watch it?

I am sorry. I had signed up ahead of time to watch it so got the link I shared. It didn't occur to me to check to see if others could watch it.

I will reach out to MPSeminars to see if they could add it to their free content.

Ron Ferguson

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1322420#Comment_1322420

Thanks Mark appreciate it.

Ron Ferguson

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1322420#Comment_1322420

Thanks Mark appreciate it.

Rod Bergen

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1322349#Comment_1322349

Rod, The following link takes you to a free webinar done yesterday by Joshua Rowe, Logos Certified Trainer with MP Seminars. While there is advertising along the way, I think as an older user you'd find this helpful in addressing new features.

https://event.webinarjam.com/live/91/pq93wc48i71h16rvs3q9p (Sorry, link works only for those who registered to see the original webinar. I've asked MPSeminars if they'd put it with their free material. If they do, I'll post the new link.)

This again highlights the theme of my post. Logos' outsourcing of some of the critical areas of support means that their overall level of support is highly inadequate. I would love to watch the webinar but can't because Logos doesn't own it.

Roy

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1322413#Comment_1322413

Mark, when you click on the link it takes you to a sign in page, then after you sign in it tells you you’re to late the webinar is over. Do you know any place else to watch it?

At the top of the main Logos website there is a banner stating Watch it now.

Follow that link and then click on the BIG play button to the right of "The Next Era of Logos Is Here" watch the replay.

link is here https://www.logos.com/future-of-logos

Mark Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1322426#Comment_1322426

Here's the seminar from MP Seminars:

https://mpseminars.com/webinars/the-next-era-of-logos-mp

Mark Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1322458#Comment_1322458

Logos' outsourcing of some of the critical areas of support means that their overall level of support is highly inadequate.

They know there is a desire for greater training than they can provide. MPSeminars has been their designated trainer for years.

I would love to watch the webinar but can't because Logos doesn't own it.

Can't or won't? To me this is a curious statement. I wonder why you can't.

Forgive me if I'm getting to the wrong conclusion, but you seem to be more interested in taking on Logos than getting help. I'd be glad to better understand.

Rod Bergen

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1322494#Comment_1322494

Can't or won't? To me this is a curious statement. I wonder why you can't.

Forgive me if I'm getting to the wrong conclusion, but you seem to be more interested in taking on Logos than getting help. I'd be glad to better understand.

Before you posted the link, it was indicated that no one could access the video if they had not signed up beforehand.

I think I have a reasonable command of the English language. "Can't" did not indicate a choice on my part. It meant it was unavailable to me.

I am incredibly frustrated that Logos took the tool that I have spent tens of thousands of dollars on and made me spend several hours of unproductive time finding out where they hid things that I have used for many years. I likely would have been less frustrated if I hadn't been pressed for time.

Did you read the posts above where they admitted that some of the help information was not particularly helpful?

So.. yes... you did arrive at the wrong conclusion for which I forgive you.

This also happened a few years ago at one of the major upgrades but there doesn't appear to be a great deal of institutional memory in that regard.

If I was interested in "taking on Logos," I would have done a lot more than try to seek answers on the forums. I love Logos but am not happy with their implementation of some of the "features" in the upgrade. I expect this will disappear in a couple of weeks and I will revert to my normal "very happy with Logos" self..

Jerry Bush

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1322494#Comment_1322494

Rod and others who are struggling with the new Dynamic Toolbar.

It took some getting used to for me, but now I would not want to go back. Give it some time. You have a lot of muscle memory built up like I do (I also go back to Libronix).

Hang in there, the toolbar is truly wonderful.

Mark Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1322508#Comment_1322508

Before you posted the link, it was indicated that no one could access the video if they had not signed up beforehand.

I am not unsympathetic, I was just unsure of your meaning, therefore my question. When you mentioned that the problem was the training not belonging to Logos I was confused. You've cleared that up.

I think the Logos video is unavailable for some reason. It should not be and perhaps Logos is working on that.

I have been able to post a new link for the webinar done yesterday by MPSeminars. I think you might find it helpful. I apologize for previous any frustration, but this link should work for you.

https://mpseminars.com/webinars/the-next-era-of-logos-mp

I agree with you that over the years training and good help files have been slow to come out from Logos. This does make being an early adopter somewhat more frustrating than it should be. Things have improved, but not having good help when software is released is a poor decision IMO.

At least you've found the Forums where help is available, but there are probably lots of users just trying to use the Logos web site and the onboard help file to learn the software.

Hopefully concerns like yours will not fall on deaf ears.

Rod Bergen

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1322517#Comment_1322517

I have been able to post a new link for the webinar done yesterday by MPSeminars. I think you might find it helpful. I apologize for previous any frustration, but this link should work for you.

https://mpseminars.com/webinars/the-next-era-of-logos-mp

The webinar is painfully pedantic. And there is no ability to skip ahead. I am 5 minutes in and I now know that Logos has moved to a subscription model. And that the lecturer is quite excited about it

Unlike an audiobook, I can't speed it up either.

9 minutes in and I now understand that dark mode might help my eyes. This is amazing! I never would have guessed.

Kiyah

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1322797#Comment_1322797

I have been able to post a new link for the webinar done yesterday by MPSeminars. I think you might find it helpful. I apologize for previous any frustration, but this link should work for you.

https://mpseminars.com/webinars/the-next-era-of-logos-mp

The webinar is painfully pedantic. And there is no ability to skip ahead. I am 5 minutes in and I now know that Logos has moved to a subscription model. And that the lecturer is quite excited about it

Unlike an audiobook, I can't speed it up either.

9 minutes in and I now understand that dark mode might help my eyes. This is amazing! I never would have guessed.

Try this video by the LearnLogos guy. He does a whole walk through of the new subscription changes. I've included the link to start at 28:00 where he starts to talk about the new toolbar:

https://youtu.be/n3sqoH9Vc5Y?si=EPYnUIQ-qZov2oU7&t=1680

Sorry you're having trouble finding help on your own. You're right. Logos should have made this much easier.

Bob Venem

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1322509#Comment_1322509

Rod and others who are struggling with the new Dynamic Toolbar.

It took some getting used to for me, but now I would not want to go back. Give it some time. You have a lot of muscle memory built up like I do (I also go back to Libronix).

Hang in there, the toolbar is truly wonderful.

Jerry, I'm glad you find the new toolbard useful. However, "struggling" isn't the problem; understanding why Logos made access to at least three different tools three times more difficult by putting them behind layers of menus (and without hotkey shortcuts) is both perplexing and frustrating.

John

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1322493#Comment_1322493

Here's the seminar from MP Seminars:

https://mpseminars.com/webinars/the-next-era-of-logos-mp

The link does not work for me because I do not have an account there.

John

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1322508#Comment_1322508

I am incredibly frustrated that Logos took the tool that I have spent tens of thousands of dollars on and made me spend several hours of unproductive time finding out where they hid things that I have used for many years.

I just wasted 2 days learning how to install an older version of the software. My current plan is to keep a couple of "legacy" computers frozen at version 36.1.

But it was not easy. The installer program attempts to force you to download the latest version immediately. You have to learn a few tricks to get around it. Logos says the only way we will provide for you to use the old toolbar is to not subscribe. They clearly want to leave the past versions behind, but it could/should have been done as a smooth transition. New experimental features could easily co-exist alongside the traditional methods.

In the near future I might subscribe to try out the AI features. But I will make sure only one of my computers stays current. Logos did not give me a choice, so I had to provide a choice for myself.

John

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1322805#Comment_1322805

Try this video by the LearnLogos guy

This guy does a great job of explaining things

Rod Bergen

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1322805#Comment_1322805

Try this video by the LearnLogos guy. He does a whole walk through of the new subscription changes. I've included the link to start at 28:00 where he starts to talk about the new toolbar:

https://youtu.be/n3sqoH9Vc5Y?si=EPYnUIQ-qZov2oU7&t=1680

Sorry you're having trouble finding help on your own. You're right. Logos should have made this much easier.

Thank you!!! [:)]

This guy is lightyears better!!!

mab

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1323635#Comment_1323635

I initially got put off by the changes in 37, but the MP Seminar covering the new interface clarified the redesign. We are creatures of habit.

Frank Sauer

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1323642#Comment_1323642

I initially got put off by the changes in 37, but the MP Seminar covering the new interface clarified the redesign. We are creatures of habit.

Or.... some of us just prefer efficiency! The Dynamic Toolbar looks great and is smooth, but inefficient for basic functions and as I stated elsewhere - keyboard commands alone should not be the answer - as some have dexterity issues that would make it just as frustrating for them.

Kevin A. Purcell

I upgraded to the subscription model and now find that the "resource panel" has disappeared. I have absolutely no clue how to change the text size of an individual resource, which was previously easy.

Most of your questions will be answered here: https://www.kevinpurcell.org/new-logos-redesign-where-is-that-button-in-logos-11/

Mike Brown (Logos)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1322458#Comment_1322458

I would like to respond to the multiple comments about outsourcing support.

Unfortunately, many people are unaware that we started a Customer Success team last year and have been doing roughly 25-30 live training sessions a week for free, all in-house. While this type of live training may not be for everyone, it is a start in our desire to provide more proactive support directly from Logos. We plan to continue developing this and hope to minimize issues like the one highlighted here. Be sure to visit https://logos.com/webinars to see a schedule of upcoming training sessions and previous sessions on-demand.

Jonathan Bradley

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1323942#Comment_1323942

I would like to respond to the multiple comments about outsourcing support.

Unfortunately, many people are unaware that we started a Customer Success team last year and have been doing roughly 25-30 live training sessions a week for free, all in-house. While this type of live training may not be for everyone, it is a start in our desire to provide more proactive support directly from Logos. We plan to continue developing this and hope to minimize issues like the one highlighted here. Be sure to visit https://logos.com/webinars to see a schedule of upcoming training sessions and previous sessions on-demand.

I've been using Logos nearly daily for over ten years now as a student, a layperson, and a pastor. I consider myself well versed in many features and their uses and what Logos can do. With that said, I must say I am loving the webinars they are doing, both live and on-demand. I'm sure I will continue appreciating them for a long time as well.

Keep up the good work!

Mike Brown (Logos)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1323960#Comment_1323960

I've been using Logos nearly daily for over ten years now as a student, a layperson, and a pastor. I consider myself well versed in many features and their uses and what Logos can do. With that said, I must say I am loving the webinars they are doing, both live and on-demand. I'm sure I will continue appreciating them for a long time as well.

Keep up the good work!

I appreciate the endorsement and kind words, Jonathan. I will be sure to take them back to the CSM team. Encouragement like this really inspires and fuels them!

Rod Bergen

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1323942#Comment_1323942

I would like to respond to the multiple comments about outsourcing support.

Unfortunately, many people are unaware that we started a Customer Success team last year and have been doing roughly 25-30 live training sessions a week for free, all in-house. While this type of live training may not be for everyone, it is a start in our desire to provide more proactive support directly from Logos. We plan to continue developing this and hope to minimize issues like the one highlighted here. Be sure to visit https://logos.com/webinars to see a schedule of upcoming training sessions and previous sessions on-demand.

I'm not generally a fan of live training, mainly because I have to adjust my schedule to make it fit. If the live sessions are recorded then I am all in.

It does look like some of the sessions are on demand and I will definitely be checking them out.

Regarding my initial post, it does not appear you have conducted a session on the many changes to the resource panel. This was my big problem. Major changes were made to the basic ways we have accessed functions for years, and there was no reliable help available. I did take a look at the page you referenced, and there did not appear to be anything on this.

I did watch the LearnLogos session on the subject and it was quite good.

Kudos if you are moving more of the help/education process in house.

Bill Abel

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1323995#Comment_1323995

I would like to respond to the multiple comments about outsourcing support.

Unfortunately, many people are unaware that we started a Customer Success team last year and have been doing roughly 25-30 live training sessions a week for free, all in-house. While this type of live training may not be for everyone, it is a start in our desire to provide more proactive support directly from Logos. We plan to continue developing this and hope to minimize issues like the one highlighted here. Be sure to visit https://logos.com/webinars to see a schedule of upcoming training sessions and previous sessions on-demand.

I'm not generally a fan of live training, mainly because I have to adjust my schedule to make it fit. If the live sessions are recorded then I am all in.

It does look like some of the sessions are on demand and I will definitely be checking them out.

Regarding my initial post, it does not appear you have conducted a session on the many changes to the resource panel. This was my big problem. Major changes were made to the basic ways we have accessed functions for years, and there was no reliable help available. I did take a look at the page you referenced, and there did not appear to be anything on this.

I did watch the LearnLogos session on the subject and it was quite good.

Kudos if you are moving more of the help/education process in house.

I have a live session titled Easy and Empowering Bible Study that I will cover the new Dynamic Toolbar. You can register for that webinar here: https://www.bigmarker.com/logos/Easy-and-Effective-Bible-Study. Remember, if you register and miss the live session, you will get a link to the replay video about an hour or so after the live session runs. My webinars are also listed at www.logos.com/billabel.

Rod Bergen

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1324003#Comment_1324003

Remember, if you register and miss the live session, you will get a link to the replay video about an hour or so after the live session runs.

Why wouldn't you let everyone access one of the recorded live sessions after they're done?

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1322818#Comment_1322818

But it was not easy. The installer program attempts to force you to download the latest version immediately. You have to learn a few tricks to get around it.

It shouldn't be as older versions get no Logos support. This means that the individual has to be sufficiently computer savvy provide their own support. There are legitimate reasons for doing this but it needs to be a conscious choice with a full awareness of the consequences.