The White Space Sickness - Will FL Recover?
This post is unbelievably a singular opinion … I'm SURE each reader has a differing view. Good luck to the design team.
But the new forum software largely 'bothers' me from all the white space. I can't do a quick look, see who's commenting on what … just like sitting in on the proverbial Logosian coffee table. Instead it's scroll-scroll-scroll. The coffee table's gone … instead different 'rooms' and you have to look in each one (to see who's talking).
I noticed the sickness coming on, when they re-did the 'home page' (Logos app) and then Factbook. Lots of unnecessary white space. Even the Lexham commentaries had to do it … which is why I don't buy them.
Before the sickness appeared? For some reason, I just love the right-click menu (a bit disorganized). I love the L4 panel design. I like the 'old' panel menuing (could glance at what's selected). All of these are decently balanced between readability, viewability, and well … looks great.
Does white space improve newbie entry? I looked at other apps, especially system UI designs (where everyone must interact). Doesn't look so white-space-y. More get-things-done-ish.
I'm guessing the FL white space sickness will spread. Filler. I'm thinking the subscription-Max is going to need 'something' for people's 'Max' money … lots of white space in the future. Betcha.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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- Visited "Recent Posts," from the quick link section on most every page? or
- Navigated to the English Forum from the main navigation above?
Thank you for your continued feedback on design, particularly on our use of white space. Many users and use cases to keep in mind—you're right about that!
Please email your notes to community@logos.com if you have more specific community feedback (screenshots would be helpful).
Sr. Community Manager at Logos.
Jason, my impression, is you're between a rock and a hard place. You want the right-side panels … understandably for navigation, advice to users, and adverts (you do need those at some point). That forces the left-side into double rows, and then adding 'packaging' (borders, etc). So, recognizing that (just guessing), I'd at least want the 'who's talking' and link to the last-post (talker). Scrolling, scrolling then becomes the well, ok. But just one opinion … many more.
Oddly enough (and this is an absolutely singular experience), the new forum design works great on my Apple watch. It eliminates your white space and keeps the post formatting (easy to read, drill into, etc). Quite efficient, along with handling emails, text msgs and so forth.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
Before the changes, I visited the forums several times a day, able to take a quick look at what was being posted, found interesting posts, read them quickly, commented if I wanted to, bookmarked some for reading later.
Now, my visits to the forum are rare. I go days sometimes without visiting. I am trying to make a concerted effort to get used to it, but it has not worked so far. It would be nice to have less wasted white, blank spaces. It would be nice if on the left side, I could see a huge list of the newest posts (maybe 50 newest posts on a page).
Jason, my impression, is you're between a rock and a hard place.
I haven't lost hope, @DMB!
I'd at least want the 'who's talking' and link to the last-post (talker). Scrolling, scrolling then becomes the well, ok. But just one opinion … many more.
This the type of practical, detailed feedback that we are looking for. I've actually heard from other testers that the breathing room is incredible on such a text-heavy community site. I'm looking forward to striking that balance as we continue to evolve this site. It's going to be incredible.
Sr. Community Manager at Logos.
It would be nice if on the left side, I could see a huge list of the newest posts (maybe 50 newest posts on a page).
Just to clarify: Do you mean on the [left] side of a thread, like what you're looking at here, you'd like to see other recent posts, @Mark?
It sounds as though the pages for the specific forums would be helpful to you. They are simply long lists of recent activity, new posts, and comments.
Have you …
I'd think that's exactly what you're looking for!
Sr. Community Manager at Logos.
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@Mark It would be nice if on the left side, I could see a huge list of the newest posts (maybe 50 newest posts on a page).
I would also enjoy seeing the newest 50 automatically (instead of only the newest 25, as in the screenshot below).
My problem with the white space in the forums is that it is all just so … white. My eyeballs are not happy. At least with the desktop app there's dark mode.
I love seeing 50 at once…so cool!
Thank you, @Jason Stone (Logos)!
Completely agree……I watch sports. As a Canuck, I only minimally watch hockey; too much, too bright ice. I watch the NBA. The court was too bright on my tv re the Charlotte Hornets.
So: hockey is gone for me + I don't watch the Hornets, either.
Now here we are with the White Space Forum Blues // I gotta be here, Gotta get all the latest news // The light is blinding, though // Despairing all my views.
I could actually wear a brimmed hat to eliminate the top 2/3 of the screen. This dims your Forum to the proper brightness. When I hold my flat hand to my forehead, eliminating 2/3 of the screen, my eyes are now happy campers. Should I get my gimme cap?
Hey brother, you could watch the Jets? Or, even better the Leafs.
But I do agree w/u.
mm.
Can I say it like I feel? I believe Wpg is too small to afford the Jets, endangering taxpayer money.
I have never been a Leafs fan. I knew a guy in Wpg. who was was a Leafs fan; he said he got blasted!
This is an improvement! Hopefully it can be implemented across the board… Any findings on implementing the option to hide forums that a user is not interested in, especially on the home page? I'd like to "hide" Proclaim and see more posts for the rest on the home page.
Logos 10 - OpenSuse Tumbleweed, Windows 11, Android 16 & Android 14
Hide proclaim: +1.
Proclaim forums will remain, but we have expanded the list of posts in each forum page to 50. Great feedback! Thank you!
Sr. Community Manager at Logos.
Thanks, Jason for your responses. Here is an issue:
You pointed me to but how do I get to this page from ? Perhaps that has to be clearer? I see the quick links and it has a "recent posts" link and it appears to be the link to the discussion page. If that is true, how about having the link as "Discussion/recent posts" to clarify?
Secondly, on the main page there are 6 main sections, correct? (Logos and Verbum Forum New activity; Logos and Verbum Feedback New ideas; Books and Courses Forum New Activity; Books and Courses Feedback New Requests; Proclaim Forum New Activity; and Proclaim Feedback New Ideas).
If I go to , will I see recent posts from all these 6 main sections?
It would help to revise the Recent Posts hyperlink to /posts instead of /discussions. Keen attention to detail there. I'll see what we can do about that.
To use the Recent Posts hyperlink from the community homepage will take you to a comprehensive list of all recent posts in the community, yes.
Might the Recent Posts link be causing too much confusion altogether?
Sr. Community Manager at Logos.
@Jason Stone (Logos) Would it be possible to not display announcements at the top of "Recent Posts"? I understand having pinned posts like announcements/forum guidelines at the top of the primary forums, but it is impractical and seems a bit unnatural to always see them at the top of "Recent Posts".
@Aaron Hamilton Please disregard if you're already aware of this - you can "dismiss" an announcement by clicking on the three dots in the top right corner of the announcement box. It won't show up again after that, except in its proper order of "recently commented" when someone makes a new comment on it.
Just wondering if this is a limitation of the system or "business" decision - either way I just ignore that block when browsing the forums. Though it would be nice to not "waste" space on subjects a user has no interest in or with languages a user does not read.
Logos 10 - OpenSuse Tumbleweed, Windows 11, Android 16 & Android 14
I'm not suggesting yea or neh. But the question merits consideration. In the 'old' forum, I read all the posts. True, the Proclaim posts were the least interesting … usually a foul-up on Sunday morning and often, a pretty quick fix (I was always impressed with the Proclaim guys). But I liked to read the non-english (barely) if only because theirs is a much bigger challenge (non-english). And re-assuring to see believers around the world.
But, you have to pick your language. Divide things up.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
Have you visited the list of individual forums, from the main menu? This provides the space for users to choose individual forums and not an overlap of topics.
Sr. Community Manager at Logos.
@Frank Sauer The link below will take you to a page that lists the last 50 commented-upon posts. It includes only posts on the Logos and Verbum English Forum (so no Proclaim posts anywhere on the page). I've saved this link directly to my browser, so that I can access it with one click, alongside a second link to all recent posts (which includes Proclaim and all the other forums).
Great suggestion, Aaron.
Whether a user wants to see all posts across all languages and all categories ("All Recent Posts") or just the content that they have opted-in to follow ("Followed Categories"), there's a view that should work for them.
Links for both views have been added to the Quick Links section on the home page.
Sr. Community Manager at Logos.
Yes Maria, I do use that as well. I was speaking specifically of the Home Page. If not possible for whatever reason, I'll continue using the forums as I have been.
Logos 10 - OpenSuse Tumbleweed, Windows 11, Android 16 & Android 14
Some of the responses are making me feel like I'm not navigating the forums thoroughly enough (i.e., I may be missing out on stuff I want to see). From the start, I chose how to follow (I want to see both new posts and new comments), and I chose the forums I want to follow (nothing non-English and no Proclaim). At every forum visit, I go to the bell icon at the upper right when the counter indicates new content is available. I scroll through, send what I'm interested in to individual tabs, then click Mark All Read. Lastly, I read through the tabs with the new posts/comments. Rinse and repeat. I don't interfere with the rest of the forums (unless I'm searching for something specific). I feel like this is an efficient way to capture the things I actually want to see, but could I be overlooking some comments and threads by using this method?
I did my setup from the laptop but I think it should work the same for the iPhone. In Notification Preferences (found in Account & Privacy Settings in profile icon), I chose to be notified by the bell icon (there's an email option also) of new posts and new comments. Then I went to the Forums and Feedback sections, and selected the ones I wanted to follow (click the bell icon for each subforum you want to follow and there will be additional options). Since then, I get notified (via a badge count on the bell icon at the upper right) of any new comments or posts made in only the subforums I follow. I don't mess with Quick Links, Recent Posts, or anything like that. It seems really simple, which is why I was lowkey FOMO'ing when I read about other people doing these other things 🤔
All I know is that this whitespace messes with my dark mode:
My first impression when entering these forums was, "Wow, there sure is a lot of wasted space…" It's actually gotten better over time, believe it or not (still too much).