New Logos. What exactly am I getting?

Batman · 2024-12-11T06:20:02+00:00

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Seems to me, every time I get excited about this $10,000 Bible program, reality kicks me in the head, and I lose my enthusiasm.
I've been waiting and waiting to see what is so different and exciting about this "New Logos".
Quite frankly, the only thing I see that is an improvement is, it seems to be easier to use than in years past.
What I see, thus far, is
1. We no longer get 3 free books.
I think we get the monthly Free books which is nice; but, we no longer get to choose 3 books.
2. We no longer get to choose courses. Instead, from what I understand, or misunderstand, Logos chooses what 3, 5 or 8 courses we will get to view.
3. There's some whoop-dee-doo talk about AI credits.
First, I see zippo on what this is and why I should get excited about it.
Next, I see zero information on how much credit we get. But, then again, since I have no clue what I'm even talking about, it doesn't matter, because I have no idea what I'm talking about. And that's after reading everything I have found on the subject. Which, as you can tell, I have no clue what I'm talking about.

I was getting excited about New Logos. I was considering going Max, the extra $30 per year sounded relatively promising. But, as it's looking now, it seems it's nothing more than a "Screw me" plan. Instead of being excited about having what's supposed to be the greatest product available for Bible study, I'm literally depressed over it.
I feel stupid, suckered, and the complete fool. Meanwhile, I keep shoveling money to make these people rich, and I'm frustrated as.

Is this Logos' goal? Am I just retarded? Before Logos, I NEVER had an issue with a Bible Library. Since Logos, I've lost almost all interest in Bible Study. I look at giant churches and see Hillsongs everywhere; I see Logos, and the only thing I see is I spend more money on Logos than I do on my car. It makes me wonder, what is the goal here really? Is it really to empower pastors? Lay persons? Or is it to take money from people $400 at a time? And then MP Seminars; "the only authorized Logos Bible Study Platform trainers". I see they increased their prices from $20/mo to $50/mo and $99/yr to $160/yr and try to justify it by claiming a 73% savings. NO! It's more than double what it was!

Yes; I am on my rant again; but, here we go again! I REALLY need someone to explain what all the marketing nonsense is not.
If anyone tries to assist, I will be grateful. But, understand, no links to pages are helping. What I need is a black and white breakdown of what this new and exciting Logos is. Because, quite frankly, I'm not getting it; but, I'm glad for everyone who does.

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Comments

Graham Criddle

I would suggest that there are two types of things that deliver extra value in the latest Logos upgrade:

Upgrades to existing functionality
New capabilities

Upgrades to existing functionality include things like:

An updated resource toolbar - and you may have seen a range of discussions regarding the pros / cons of this
A refresh of the Factbook
Bringing sermon editing capabilities to Android tablets
Adding new cards to the dashboard to make it easier - particularly for new users - to start using Logos in a useful and relevant way
Upgrading the way customers can get help on using the software (the Help Center)

New capabilities include things like:

AI-enabled capabilities (and when we use these we consume AI credits - but for most people we have so many allocated it isn't something to worry about) such as:
- Smart Searching - being able to use natural language queries to search our books
- Search Synopsis - being able to see a short synopsis of the best results of our smart searches
- Summarization - summarizing articles or search results
- Using AI tools to enhance Sermon creation
Bible Study Builder - a tool to generate questions for Bible study contexts (either drawn from books in our library or AI-generated)

The three new subscription tiers (Premium, Pro and Max) are designed to provide core functionality for different groups of people (small group leaders or deep individual study, pastors and sermon prep, research and original language study) with the subscriptions providing access to relevant functionality and a set of related books.

The subscription model is also designed to enable provision of enhancements fo existing functionality - including bug fixes - or upgrades to functionality (not yet specified) every six weeks.

Does this help at all?

xnman

@Batman …

I'll try to answer your post this way… Why did I choose to go with the subscription plan?

First - I chose the "Pro Early Access" plan for me. I thought and still do, that I can do all I want with that plan and so far it's worked out for me.

Second - I think Logos is the premier of bible programs. Have thought so since I started "trying to get acclimated" from coming from WordSearch. I can get as deep or as shallow as I want in Logos. Word studies, topic studies, passages studies, Logos pretty well has that covered and usually in more than one way. I build lessons, sermons, do research on some papers I write and Logos is my "repository of data" that I use regularly for that.

Third - I chose the subscription route because I understand finances of doing programming work. I worked as a Project Manager of programmers for years. I had a budget and it is very hard on a company to get all it's revenue in just one month of the year and not knowing how much they will get. That's nothing short of a "budget nightmare" for the whole year. While I don't like monthly payments of any kind, I find the subscription rate I pay for "Pro -Early Access" is actually cheaper than a once a year update which always hit me at the wrong time of the year. And I decided I was going to "keep on" with Logos…. so the subscription route made logical sense to me.

Fourth - I do like getting updates more regularly. Logos has been very diligent about that since the subscription thing came out. I had one problem earlier, I called support and Logos was very quick to make that problem go away. I like that kind of response. I like that kind of support.

Now … you… I know everyone is not like me, I'm actually thankful for that! But I think if you "give it a chance" you're going to find there are more things you like about the "new Logos" than you might think. It works very well, and as you mentioned, it is getting easier and easier for it to work for ME which is important for me and you for you. The support of the Logos team has been 5 stars also.

Jerry Bush

Do you go by Bat? Or do you prefer Mr. Man? 😁

Not sure where you are getting that Logos cost 10k.

Yes, we no longer get 3 free books. But I had mined everything I wanted from the public domain pile years ago and only picked some because I got them and they MIGHT lower future packages. Most of them I immediately hid.

But we get 3 quality books for free. Everyone gets 2 and subscribers get 1 extra. By quality I mean they are not public domain junk but decent titles… they are not always useful for me but most are.

I was skeptical about AI at first. Try Smart Search a few times. Try a book search using AI. Try Sermon Assistant. These are fantastic and will improve over time. Game changers for me.

Re-read Graham's post again. Great points there.

Finally, the cost of subscription. Look back on what you paid every two years for an upgrade, if you did the full upgrade. Subscriptions over that same two year period will be less money, not more spent on Logos. And if you subscribe for two years, you keep the non AI features. I plan on subscribing for many many years to come.

For me, it has been a win-win for Logos and we users. You may see it differently and I respect that. But that is my perspective.

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1348563#Comment_1348563

I think Graham's summary is good. But I'd agree, absent a test drive, you have to pick up pro/con's here and there. This morning was a con on the 'new' Factbook .. so, back and forth.

I'm 'holding' (poker) until I see what cards will improve OL study. No 'trust us' for me.

scooter

To Batman, OP: As DMB pointed out, just Hold.

I am holding at Logos 8, starter. I read, hilite, do up a few notes. I camp out in front of my rig 7 days a week. Suits me…

…but maybe not you…

So, Batman. If you can do what you need to do with what you have, you're in business, my friend. Pick a book from your Library, and rock-'n'-roll. Buy yourself one new resource for Christmas; test drive it, noting the 30 day return policy.

Six months from now, as you have read Jerry, x and Graham + etc., then maybe a subscription suits. Didn't suit me - mebbe it suits you!!

Batman

First, Thanks everyone. I know I went on a rant, at about 3am, mostly, because I am frustrated with Logos, again.
Second, I think my last paid upgrade was L-8. Maybe 6? When Logos first introduced Subscriptions several years ago, I went with it.
The biggest downside is, if we stopped "renting" we lost anything we didnt pay for. That was not a deal breaker for me. I figured it's the same as if I owned, and died or, rented til I died. Same result. Gloomy, yes, but, real.
My frustrations however, lie in what exactly are the new benefits, vs the old and specifically, what is this AI credit thingy.
I have no clue on this at all, and it is annoying at best. Let's not get into what is less than "best". This is a Christian community, after all. :D
Now to more individual responses.

Batman

@Jerry Bush Your highness works 🤣 Bat works. Do you remember the band, Mr. Mister? I had customers at that time, Mr and Mrs. Mister. Your humor is well received. Thank you.
Where do I get $10k from? Sadly, my purchase history. It's not a place you really want to go. It was SUPPOSED to be a $400 purchase. Just like all the other Bible software packages I had previously purchased; except, 4-8x higher in price; despite getting a 33% discount. Not that I want to rehash bad feelings toward Logos, but, I felt lied to, and "taken" by Logos. Then with the difficulty in learning curve, I pretty much have resented Logos ever since. With a few moments where I find that glimmer of hope that I MIGHT find purpose in having been suckered in. Since 2009 until several years ago, the last time I tallied, I had spent over $7000, almost $8k. By now, Im sure its topped the 10k mark. Worthless for the return on asset, for now. Despite being the absolute easiest version of Logos, since L-3, my desire and motivation levels are near flat-lined; but, the hope for resuscitation, however, remains hopeful.

The reason I went to the subscription model originally, was for $100/yr it was kind of worth it. We received:
1. access to a huge number of resources. My current library is now in excess of 7000 titles, all of which are owned, except for about 250.
2. Originally I think we received 4 books free, then 3. The most expensive were above $60; and, now, several years later, have dropped down to $15. Still, not bad.
3. We were entitled to borrow 2 courses per year of our choosing. A nice way to get the information from $750 courses.
4. 2% back. Despite what i consider more money than I care to admit, I still receive $20 every year; in a phony effect of making my annual cost $80 or as I say, ironically, 6.66/mo.

The new model doesnt seem all that much of a progress to me.
Seems we lose 2 more books. But, you confirmed it's "better" product. We just dont get our choice any longer.
Seems we gain a couple to 5 courses each year. But, again, we dont get the choices.
And the AI thing. That, is my biggest frustration. I have absolutely zero idea what it is, and why i should pretend to be excited about it. (I was converted to Pro; so, I SHOULD have some something somewhere. But, nope. Nada).

Thanks again
Bats

Batman

@DMB Thanks. I'm actually converted over to Pro, from the as close as it was previous subscription model.

As much as I despise certain, or many aspects of Logos (mainly, Ive no longer the desire to use it, because I never learned it, and feel "ripped off" by Logos) I felt the annual subscription carried value. Even if I am in a coma and in hopes of said desire to learn Logos returns. As mentioned, some of the perks just seem like yet another "Screw you" from Logos. But, in some ways, they seem better. All a matter of perspective. We lose some books, but, we gain the quality of them being more up to date. We lose our ability to choose which ones we want (I think). We gain a few mobile courses each year, but, we lose the ability to choose which we want to access.
But, the worst is this AI thing. I have yet to see what it is, how to access it, or, how much access I get.

As for you; I would say, how much use do you get out of the new "perks"? For me, I'm waiting to see whether or not I'll get screwed by upgrading to Max, or, should I remain at Pro.

Thanks. Appreciate your input.

Batman

Scooter
Appreciate your input.
If youre following this threas, as it seems you are, you know more of my situation.
Maybe one day (SOON i pray) I can regain that motivation and desire. The fact this version is the easiest SHOULD help. But, frankly, has not. But, the glimmer of hope remains alive.
When I initially considered subscription or not, I decided that $8/mo ($100/yr) was better than $16 to HBO. Even if it has not been worth it. I mean, I still have it, and access if I can get over the top again.

I have a lot to hope for with Logos; but, retain a lot of resentment toward a company, I at best, think of as a greedy, scammy company, who's primary purpose has been stated to be a business first; with no actual secondary purpose of ministry at all. Kind of a huge turn off, for a "Christian" company. That is how I feel, and how I view the company. But, in another thread, I also mention despite the "ugliness" I see here, there is a lot they do that is right. So, again, there is hope for the (near) future.
Thanks again.

Batman

@xnman I have left you and Graham for the end, because you both have hit more on the technical and specific details. I appreciate that; very much. Esp. your insights on how software development works. I certainly agree with your insights.
I have been with Logos since the last couple months of L3. I specifically asked the seller about an L-4. And while it's possible the sales team had not been aware that L4 was coming in a couple months; it seemed to me as if it was. So, bad blood right off the bat. Then, to not have an "upgrade offer" for new buyers was just insulting. I mean, I JUST paid $400 for L3 and not even 3 months later, I was being asked to pay ANOTHER $600! I think you can see the issue here.

When they came out with the subscription model, I did decide to go with it, because I felt that was the only way to "future proof" any investment i had in Logos. Despite my displeasure in doing so. But, at the same time, for the annual monthly price of $8, I felt it was almost worth it. Compared to say Netflix or HBO it should have been. And, i continue to hope and pray it does.

As far as it being the "premiere", I just have to disagree. Not because it lacks any ability of others, but, rather, the "inferior" products were always so much easier to use, and I did. The greatest product in the world is worthless if a) you cant use it and b) have lost all motivation to use it. And that's where Logos is. And that is where Logos needs to improve greatly; despite the great improvements since 2009's Logos editions.
Thanks again.

Batman

@Graham Criddle
I have saved your response for last, because it is so detailed, and deserves the same level as you gave me.
I have been with logos since mid 2009. Things did not go as well as I would have expected, thus, leaving a very bad taste in my mouth, and a butchered desire to even use Logos.
Fast forward to today. I was switched to Pro from the previous subscription model. I keep getting disappointed by Logos. By definition, this must make me insane; because every time a new Logos comes out, I keep hoping for and therefore, expecting different results.

I am resigned to the fact unless I get so outraged by Logos, or, Logos shuts down, I will be in it for life. This, even if I never open the program again.
This is because while I have had a severely negative experience with Logos, and I have an even worse view of the company and those that created it and run it, regardless how little desire or motivation I have at any given moment to further myself with logos, I always have a glimmer of hope that the desire will spring to life, and I will be able to take full advantage of it. Regardless how bad I may feel the motives might be on the part of Logos. It's how I feel, and, how Logos has presented itself in my view. There is very little that can be done to change that, bar a complete overhaul in it's mission structure and operations. Or, I am able to have my eyes opened to be more sympathetic and understanding of the companies mission and priorities. Which I would be grateful for either; but, not foolish enough to expect either.

I had high hopes for the latest edition of Logos. I see a huge improvement on the ease of use. I've used more features since the update than I have in the previous years combined. No, that is not a great thing. It's a small step forward, because over the past 15 years, I've had very little use, including the new usage. My total usage is probably less than 5 hours than the average low usage user. And here lies the major problem.

So here we are, with yet another update to Logos (which appears to be solely financial in nature) to create a new Logos. But, is it improved? Certainly based on perspective, the answer either yes, or no. And this is where I am at. Where my spiritual and all other struggles are.

I see Logos as not improving at all, but, declining and even failing. And in these areas:
1.Monthly comped books. We have once again lost several books. We went from 4 to 3. Now to 1. Plus the monthly free books, that went from 1 to 2. We also lost the choice of books. But, we also gained in that the books are in copyright, and modern.
2. While we gain several mobile courses, depending on level, we once again, lose the ability to choose what courses we wish to "borrow".
3. AI features. I have looked, and read and still have no clue what this is. I know there are credits used. How many? No idea. How to access it? Again, no idea. Why should I even care about it? Again, not a clue.
Perhaps this is my fault; or, perhaps this is Logos' inability to properly explain things.
I am under the belief that there is some number of tokens we receive each month for AI usage. I also believe that number is supposed to show up someplace. But, no idea where, as I dont see it anywhere. And, how would I use them, if I even had them or knew where they were? Again, no clue at all.

Logos did a great job in creating excitement, I think; because I was hoping to see what benefits this was. But, as far as end results? Similar to the results of the opening of Capone's vault and Y2K. A fireworks finale that fizzles rather than pops!

So, I thank you for the explanation; I still have no clue and the information I keep getting has given no hints or clues. So, once again, tomorrow, I will have some free time, and will give CS a call and see what they can do to try and demonstrate what i am not seeing.

I appreciate your response, very much.

MJ. Smith

Allow me to be a bit flippant. What do I get from the newest, shiniest Logos - whether owned or purchased? Probably less than 2 decades of use looking at the length of life of the two generations preceding me. Less than that should I encounter certain disabilities. Whether physical or electronic, the books have little value to my family and little resale value - but can be a pleasant surprise for a seminarian. Logos/Verbum has shown little traction in making the changes need for the churches using multiple passages and broader methods, but they have shown progress in simplifying their interfaces, unifying their architecture, etc. which is necessary for them to remain at the forefront of Bible software. The question is a simple sum of three questions: How much do I value the actual work I get from using Logos/Verbum? How much do I value the entertainment value of playing with Logos/Verbum? and, finally, how much do I value supporting Logos/Verbum as an ongoing enterprise living beyond me? To me, it is worth it. As for others, I can't say.

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1348739#Comment_1348739

Yes … I'd have to have deduced above, you're in it for the long haul (subscription). You sort of 'passed Go' in Sept-Oct (last chance to buy L10 features). So I guess, I don't understand you're frustration. Your cost/resource is quite low ($10,000/7000 books, approx), Beats Matthew's old record. You like subscriptions. And FL is happily doing what you want.

Where's the beef? And … as I understand it, a couple years from now, you'll own the L7-10 features and more (non-AIs). Unlike others, you'll get your features for 'free' (subscription goes to ownership). And maybe a few details they changed.

Justin Gatlin

Hey Bat, I made a video where I tried to show all of the new features as part of using the Bible study builder:

https://youtu.be/Ikye3BbY408?si=Fn6hQQ0X_5tv_ZB9

If you think my style would be helpful and have more questions, maybe we could set up a video call where I can share my screen and walk you through your questions. No charge.

Batman

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1348792#Comment_1348792

Actually, I do not like subscriptions. Companies love them, because whether people use them or not, their cash cow keeps on draining people's accounts. Some are better than others; but, most are built on the hop you forget all about them, and keep using them. Worse, is the fact that you don't own the material purchased. Many are discovering that with songs or movies they purchased; once the company loses the rights to it, we as customers lose them as well.
That, is where FL shines. They did protect us in that way. Two thumbs up for Logos there.
Now, as far as logos goes, if i can do a subscription of $16 to Netflix (I dont, btw), HBO, or anyone else, I can see doing it for Logos. I don't appreciate what comes off as greed to me, particularly when it comes to a "Christian" organization. I somehow feel as if Jesus would pull out the whip and blast them for it. And, perhaps me as well, for blasting them. But, to me, greed has no place in the Church, or, in God's work. If God blesses a company for their hardwork, Im all for it— and begrudge no one anything. But, if they are greedy, and the like, Oh yes, I very much do.
My purpose behind continuing is, I have poured so much in, and have gotten not even 1/2 a percent in value in return. BUT, it is the continued hope that things will eventually turn around that i hope and pray for.

Batman

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1348796#Comment_1348796

Thank you. I will be in touch.

Jerry Bush

Mr. Bat the Man -

I certainly hear and understand your frustration. I am sometimes too much of an apologist for Logos, but one thing I see is that I am locked in, like you described. I have spent what you have, maybe a bit more, and it's not like I can take those books elsewhere. That is true for my Amazon Kindle books as well, and sometimes that bothers me

I am comfortable with subscriptions, but I understand why you and others are not. I use Logos daily and fairly heavily so I believe I am receiving the value I am paying for. But I think sometimes about what happens if I leave ministry (a possibility in the near future) and am no longer a heavy user? Or when I am old and retired and have little to no use for the program any longer… there are few options but to try and sell my library to another Logos user or give it away to someone. I see the pros and cons of all of this.

One reason that is not discussed too much about subscriptions is piracy. In the past, I have seen cracked versions of Logos on file-sharing sites. I never used them but I saw them for sure. I reported them to Logos but there was nothing much that they could do about that. Subscriptions eliminate that possibility for the company. Not sure what that has to do with your struggles, but it came to mind for some reason.

Obviously, I don't have many answers for your situation. But know that many of us understand your irritations with the program and the company in general.

Milkman

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1348594#Comment_1348594

Well said.

mm.

Matthew Anstey

I too find the new subscription models confusing and I can't seem to find answers to the questions I'm asking about it. Eg, I want to know the cost after the 2 year subscription deal ends, as I don't want the price skyrocketing at that point.

I also want to know which DSS manuscripts I will get with a Max subscription, and which ones I have to then buy. And tbh, I find it quite frustrating that despite having the academic version, many critically important Hebrew manuscript documents/resources are not supplied, but have to be purchased.

I was a dedicated Bibleworks user from the start and even today, years after BWorks closed down, I find Logos to be significantly inferior for the sort of detailed Hebrew analysis I want to do, compared to BWorks. It is very difficult to create Hebrew searches quickly, and even harder to create complex searches. BWorks excelled in this. (A number of the advanced Hebrew searches and features in BWorks I designed, in consultation with Mike Bushell. And I did a lot of beta-testing for them.)

And there is a whole range of searches, especially on vowels and cantillation, that Logos doesn't seem able to do.

I find the user-interface counter-intuitive, incredibly cluttered (despite all my efforts to reduce extraneous text on the screen), and generally difficult to use. There are buttons and options everywhere, often buried many levels deep, to turn things on and off, and to look for things. Overall, I just find it quite a jumbled mess.

I can't stand the way markings keep appearing on my documents, indicating what other users found interesting etc. I remove these, but they seem to keep appearing, on the same resources, over and over again.

Just to add, I use Logos for about 5-6 hours, one day a week, when I am doing intensive grammatical and translation work, so I am not sure if I used it more frequently whether I would feel happier about it. I use it for my scholarly work in BH linguistics and translation. So I'm not a typical user.

Justin Gatlin

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1349906#Comment_1349906

They haven't committed to what the subscription price will be in the future. But they have said that existing owners will stay on a lower tier.

You should probably make a separate post for your other concerns. The extra markings should not be coming back. My Hebrew is not good enough to understand why someone would want to search for marks apart from the words themselves, so I don't know how to set up what you want to do there, but someone else might.

I don't think that the DSS are included in the subscription and if you already own the Logos 10 full feature set, the subscription doesn't include any new language features yet. But you can buy the biblical and nonbiblical scrolls on Logos.

https://www.logos.com/product/4241/the-dead-sea-scrolls-study-edition-vol-i-1q1-4q273-vol-ii-4q274-11q31?queryId=c7428c74744729314213ca5bd0ecf6fd

Famille Thevoz

Dear Mr. Batman,

I would suggest that maybe you could try getting a different experience from Logos, using it from your phone and tablet if you have one. From your posts, I read that you invested a lot in resources, so I would suggest that you find a way to make use of them and really enjoy them in a way that also fits your taste.

As an example, I like reading Logos resources on my phone or on a tablet. The phone or tablet provides a clean, uncluttered reading experience that I enjoy, different from Logos desktop application.

Why not try spending quality time reading your Bible and meditating in prayer with God on your phone and/or tablet with Logos, gleaning more insights from your favorite purchased commentaries ? Using Logos mobile application, you can easily keep multiple resources open and synchronized at the same passage, like a few favorite Bibles and commentaries, and switch between them with just a swipe of your finger.

I would encourage you to make the most of what you have purchased already, and not worry or think about spending more. I pray that God helps you with this, since this is impacting you. God bless you.

Batman

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1349576#Comment_1349576

Now that is sad. As much as I blast Logos for what they do; the fact that people would steal or aid in stealing, is beside me. Particularly when it comes to God's word. But, I am sure I have done similar without giving any thought; so, who am I to stand judge, I suppose. Somehow, we dont see digital is stealing, I'm guessing. And while I scoff at companies who make claims that they "lose millions" every year, because I don't believe 1/10 of those who who pirate material or use pirated software (paid for at a substantially lower cost, or not at all) would most likely not pay.
So, while it does not have much or anything to do with my struggles and frustrations, it does come as a bit more helpful in understanding why [any] company would go this route. But, again, as far as owning vs subscribing, its really pretty much the same— until/unless Logos goes under before I do. Either way, I will most likely keep paying each year for the right to use the program til I die, or, if they raise the price to a price I just no longer can afford and/or justify. And then, when I die, the result will be the same.

Batman

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1350043#Comment_1350043

That is practical advice, and while I do have the mobile edition on my phone and kindle, as you point out, it is different, and a bit frustrating in its own way.
But at the same time, the advice is solid, and very much appreciated. Something I usually teach others, and thats to refocus and redirect attention from one perspective to a whole new one. Focusing on what I can do rather than what I cannot, until I can, is certainly a better way to view things.
Thank you/

Justin Gatlin

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1350043#Comment_1350043

It might reassure you to know that Logos gave longtime Connect subscribers the full feature set for free when they moved to the new model. They had no obligation to do that but did so (under the current management which people are so skeptical of). So while nothing is certain, if Logos was going to go under and lose the ability to maintain their servers, they might give permanent licenses again. It seems more likely to me that Logos would be sold several times like Wordsearch was, its customer base is too big to fade into the night.