NKJV Error in Isaiah 44:1
Have reported this Typo via the Logos app multiple times but does not appear to be fixed. Does anyone have an explanation for this error? This does not give me confidence that the rest of the passages in the Logos version is the same version as my NKJV books.
Below is from the Logos version:
44 “Yet hear me now, O Jacob My servant,
And Israel whom I have chosen.
The New King James Version (Is 44:1). (1982). Nashville: Thomas Nelson.
Below is from BibleGateway (matches with all my physical NKJV copies).
44 “Yet hear now, O Jacob My servant,
And Israel whom I have chosen.
Comments
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It's not a typo or an error but a difference between some NKJV texts. See, e.g., the NKJV Study Bible (Thomas Nelson, 2008) https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=SKz9pXVEoQYC&printsec=frontcover
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Must be a printing error then, as my 2018 Thomas Nelson Study NKJV bible renders it correctly. But regardless, I did not purchase a 2008 NKJV Thomas Nelson study bible, so I would not expect the text of a 2008 Thomas Nelson Study NKJV bible for the NKJV Bible sold on Logos.
Do we have a list of other variances the 2008 Thomas Nelson Study NKJV Bible has?
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Logos Study Bibles in general contain only the notes so you don't purchase the Bible text itself more than once.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Gordon Jones said:
It's not a typo or an error but a difference between some NKJV texts.
My Mom's hardcopy NKJV (early 1990s) has the 'hear now'. Hard to say when 'hear me now' crept in.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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DMB said:Gordon Jones said:
It's not a typo or an error but a difference between some NKJV texts.
My Mom's hardcopy NKJV (early 1990s) has the 'hear now'. Hard to say when 'hear me now' crept in.
Must be exclusive to the 2nd edition study bible then as i have a 2021 printed nkjv with Hear now
I consider this still a problem as I purchased an NKJV bible, and expect the text of a NKJV bible. Even the study bible has a newer revision with the verse correct.
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Alex Metcalfe said:
Below is from the Logos version:
44 “Yet hear me now, O Jacob My servant,
Visual Filter can be used to effectively hide "me" in Isaiah 44:1 (change text to 20% italicized subscript with light yellow foreground color)
The MacArthur Study Bible published by Word Publishing, a division of Thomas Nelson in 1997 matches the Logos version. Also Family Life Marriage Bible published in 2007 by Thomas Nelson has 1982 NKJV text matching the Logos version, as does The Maxwell Leadership Bible (2nd Edition) published by Thomas Nelson in 2007.
Keep Smiling [:)]
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So seems the Study Bibles from 90s to 00's have the error then. Any reason Logos is using an outdated revision of a Study Bible for the NKJV text?
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The text is simply the text of the edition licensed to Logos. They cannot change the text without the publisher's approval which is usually a new edition and a new purchase. It is not an error if it is faithful to the hardcopy edition is claims to be.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Ok so shouldn't it be Logos' responsibility to get in contact with the publisher then, or even put on the store page advising what version of the NKJV they are selling which is a Study Bible 2nd revision edition? This is a matter of quality control, and consumer confidence. Do we have confidence that the text we are reading is in fact the text we assumed we purchased?
I understand that in this instance, its a verse, but its the precedent that it has set that is the problem.
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I don't know which version of the study bible you have ... the ones I have do not come with a Bible text. All the entries I find in the store front have publisher, date, and ISBN. I'm not sure what else you need in order to know exactly what you are getting. I've not run into a bookstore that tells you there is a later edition unless they carry it.
Alex Metcalfe said:I understand that in this instance, its a verse, but its the precedent that it has set that is the problem.
No, for students and academics it is critical that the text matches the citation for the text. If it did not that would make Logos nearly useless in seminary as you couldn't safely cite it.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Alex Metcalfe said:
Must be a printing error then
I have a lot of Printed NKJV Study Bibles, but they are all relatively recent as far as publication date. I checked the reference in 7 of them, and they all match the Logos text. 4 of the Study Bibles i checked were printed by Thomas Nelson and none of them contained the text of your 2018 edition.
These were all printed by Thomas Nelson, but are also all newer than 2018:
Orthodox Study Bible
Know the Word Study Bible
Macarthur Study Bible
The NKJV Study Bible
Large Print NKJV Pew BibleAlso matching the Logos text:
NKJV Topaz reference edition, Cambridge Publishing
NKJV Holman Study Bible, Holman publishers
Thompson chain reference Bible, NKJV edition, ZondervanSo your text was not found in any my newer print Bibles.
Out of curiosity, I also compared the NKJV in Bibleworks 9 ... it was the same as Logos
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I have a 2018 printed large print pew edition too and it says Yet hear now
The logos adds "me"
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Alex Metcalfe said:
The logos adds "me"
Maybe Thomas Nelson has a 'good' NKJV and an easy-going NKJV? Obviously, there's two types. Your question, how many more variances (between NKJV-good and NKJV-easy) is good. The 'me' isn't even in the KJV, much less the hebrew. And technically misleading from a semitic-languages point of view. Only a couple of my translations (the explanatory ones) add similar.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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DMB said:Alex Metcalfe said:
The logos adds "me"
Maybe Thomas Nelson has a 'good' NKJV and an easy-going NKJV? Obviously, there's two types. Your question, how many more variances (between NKJV-good and NKJV-easy) is good. The 'me' isn't even in the KJV, much less the hebrew. And technically misleading from a semitic-languages point of view. Only a couple of my translations (the explanatory ones) add similar.
Hopefully this is addressed by the Logos staff. As far as I am aware at thus stage, I have been sold a corrupted version, based on the copyright year, and that the store page does not say its a NKJV Study Bible second revision.
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Alex said:
Hopefully this is addressed by the Logos staff. As far as I am aware at thus stage, I have been sold a corrupted version, based on the copyright year, and that the store page does not say its a NKJV Study Bible second revision.
I'm not sure what you expect from Logos staff here. Bible publishers make small updates all the time, which is far away from publishing a "second revision" (some indicate the internal text version, such as German Elberfelder Bible, but most don't). Logos can only contain the text as given to them by the publisher - I would expect them to have a contract requiring Logos to use the latest (which the publisher might deem the best) of those text versions.
Whether this is a "corrupted" or "improved" version obviously is in the eye of the beholder, the publisher will consider it improved. Logos can't simply pick and choose which of those small changes to implement.
Have joy in the Lord!
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Alex said:
Hopefully this is addressed by the Logos staff. As far as I am aware at thus stage, I have been sold a corrupted version, based on the copyright year, and that the store page does not say its a NKJV Study Bible second revision.
There is another thread on the forum discussing a difference in the headings found in NKJV. The last post in the thread has two links to different print editions which had been published by Thomas Nelson.
The older thread was discussing headings, but you can use those links and then navigate to the Isaiah 44:1 reference. You will find that the difference you are concerned with is there also. So it is Thomas Nelson publishers that published two differing versions of the text, and also has apparently supplied differing electronic editions to different electronic publishers.
You could contact the publishers if you desired to pursue this issue further with them. It is my guess that they likely already know about it.
It would be interesting to do a text compare and discover if there are other differences.
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Alex said:
The logos adds "me"
Well, the Logos 'me' is in the Libronix NKJV with a file date of 2009 ... been there 15 years at least. I wouldn't be surprised if they bought the Study Bible Edition (Nelson Study Bible) and pulled the NKJV text out separately. In theory, the updated copyright (post-1982) is in the study Bible, and Logos used the NKJV copyright.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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John said:
It would be interesting to do a text compare and discover if there are other differences.
I did a quick comparison of the two differing texts that I was able to find as downloads on the internet. I think the results are significant enough to post.
I only put a limited amount of time into this, so this is not intended to be the final word on anything. I started verifying the quick results to the latest version of the NKJV in Logos 10 to the NKJV text in Bibleworks, and I found that the differences match.
Beyond Compare software found 575 differences, but many of these upon examination are going to be unimportant or the result of formatting and/or headings in the text. It would take quite some time to go though each one, so I will not take this any further.
Conclusion, there are definitely two versions of the NKJV, represented in both Printed editions and Electronic. One of them appears to be a very rough draft which still has a lot of old KJV English (For example, in Hebrews 6:8, briars is still spelled briers in the Logos version)
Someone at Tyndale House publishers apparently has made a huge mistake. It is easy to correct and replace electronic editions. But what if Alex's 2018 study Bible is the only printing they did with the correct text?
I hope my conclusions are wrong. But if they are correct, I am amazed that they have never been discovered by anyone except Alex. How could this even be possible?
I will attempt to attach a file with my compare report. Since the formatting was different in the files I compared, the only quick and easy way to get results was to strip the book and reference information. But this may help as a starting point if anyone wants to investigate further.
Note: the forum software added a ".ZIP" file extension. I had to rename it to ".XPS" and then it is usable.
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John said:
I also compared the NKJV in Bibleworks 9 ... it was the same as Logos
I typed this in error, but it is too late for me to edit my post. Bibleworks (at least up to version 9) had the alternate text, which is the same as Alex's study Bible.
All of the NKJV printed editions I have on my bookshelf match the Logos text, which I now believe to be from an older rough draft of the text. (But I could be mistaken of course)
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Thank you for doing this. Your efforts are appreciated. This is a massive concern. Hopefully Logos follows up with Thonas Nelson and gets the correct version.
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NB.Mick said:Alex said:
Hopefully this is addressed by the Logos staff. As far as I am aware at thus stage, I have been sold a corrupted version, based on the copyright year, and that the store page does not say its a NKJV Study Bible second revision.
I'm not sure what you expect from Logos staff here. Bible publishers make small updates all the time, which is far away from publishing a "second revision" (some indicate the internal text version, such as German Elberfelder Bible, but most don't). Logos can only contain the text as given to them by the publisher - I would expect them to have a contract requiring Logos to use the latest (which the publisher might deem the best) of those text versions.
Whether this is a "corrupted" or "improved" version obviously is in the eye of the beholder, the publisher will consider it improved. Logos can't simply pick and choose which of those small changes to implement.
At the very least, update the store page and citation it generates to distinguish the version they have. Consider thr implications in an academic context if this is not addressed.
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Alex said:
At the very least, update the store page and citation it generates to distinguish the version they have.
What could be written to distinguish 1982 NKJV text variants ?
Printed bibles have the same 1982 copyright date while not identifying NKJV textual variant.
Keep Smiling [:)]
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Alex said:
At the very least, update the store page and citation it generates to distinguish the version they have.
What could be written to distinguish 1982 NKJV text variants ?
Printed bibles have the same 1982 copyright date while not identifying NKJV textual variant.
Keep Smiling
"This version contains textual variants found in the 2nd Edition NKJV Nelson Study Bible. For a list of variations, please list..."
Seems Nelson needs to address this as well. Further research done also shows there has been a quiet revision in 1984, meaning there is another version. So far we have 3 versions now. 1 quiet revision from 1984, and from there, another variation which seems to originated from the 2nd edition nelson study bible.
A noticeable difference between the 1982 and 1984 revision is
6 And one will say to him, ‘What are these wounds between your arms?’ Then he will answer, ‘Those with which I was wounded in the house of my friends.’
The New King James Version (Zec 13:6). (1982). Nashville: Thomas Nelson.
Pre-1984 NKJV bibles will render what are these wounds in your hands? instead of arms.
Unfortunately the 1984 revision is not reflected on the copyright page of NKJV bibles.
The question now is with Nelson, how many revisions and variants have they actually got, and have not revealed to us?
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Alex said:
The question now is with Nelson, how many revisions and variants have they actually got, and have not revealed to us?
no more than the highest printing of a particular printing.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Alex said:
The question now is with Nelson, how many revisions and variants have they actually got, and have not revealed to us?
I don't know much about the publishing business. But I first learned a little about it when I began using the ESV. I bought the ESV print edition when it first came out in 2001.
Between 2001 and 2005 there were at least 3 major revisions which were never called revisions, and never identified on the copyright page.
I discovered it when Bibleworks would release "updates" which said something like "brings the ESV up to the latest text revision". I would compare and find all the changes they had made. Then go to the store and look at what was on the shelves. Yes, they were different. But there was no way you would have known by looking at the copyright info page.
At some point in time, Crossway began printing "20xx text revision" on the copyright page. A lot of the study Bibles using the ESV text today are still the older 2011 text edition, but the changes between that and the 2016 were minor. ESV audio Bibles being sold today are also the older 2007 or 2011 text. Crossway was supposed to be releasing a batch of completely new audio Bibles with several different speakers which would use the up to date 2016 text.
But the NKJV I always wondered why there seemingly had never been any revisions ...
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John said:Alex said:
The question now is with Nelson, how many revisions and variants have they actually got, and have not revealed to us?
I don't know much about the publishing business. But I first learned a little about it when I began using the ESV. I bought the ESV print edition when it first came out in 2001.
Between 2001 and 2005 there were at least 3 major revisions which were never called revisions, and never identified on the copyright page.
I discovered it when Bibleworks would release "updates" which said something like "brings the ESV up to the latest text revision". I would compare and find all the changes they had made. Then go to the store and look at what was on the shelves. Yes, they were different. But there was no way you would have known by looking at the copyright info page.
At some point in time, Crossway began printing "20xx text revision" on the copyright page. A lot of the study Bibles using the ESV text today are still the older 2011 text edition, but the changes between that and the 2016 were minor. ESV audio Bibles being sold today are also the older 2007 or 2011 text. Crossway was supposed to be releasing a batch of completely new audio Bibles with several different speakers which would use the up to date 2016 text.
But the NKJV I always wondered why there seemingly had never been any revisions ...
That unfortunately is a massive problem to me. Not only academically, but for people who like to memorise passages solo or in groups where an agreed bible version is determined. Is there a financial penalty to update the copyright of a text? What happens when a professor penalises a student for a cited bible translation passage when they cross reference with their supposed same version...
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Found another one. Jer 34:16 Logos version has "whom he" instead of "whom you".
16 Then you turned around and profaned My name, and every one of you brought back his male and female slaves, whom he had set at liberty, at their pleasure, and brought them back into subjection, to be your male and female slaves.’
The New King James Version (Je 34:16). (1982). Nashville: Thomas Nelson.
Bible Gateway:
16 Then you turned around and profaned My name, and every one of you brought back his male and female slaves, whom you had set at liberty, at their pleasure, and brought them back into subjection, to be your male and female slaves.’
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Alex said:
Is there a financial penalty to update the copyright of a text?
Certainly not if done by the owner of the copyright.
Alex said:What happens when a professor penalises a student for a cited bible translation passage when they cross reference with their supposed same version
No competent professor would do this. However, I have been dinged for using the transliteration included in the quotation rather than the standard transliteration used throughout the paper. However, when I was given my first leather bound bible in 1955 I was taught why it would always match "Daddy's" exactly.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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I have sent an email to logosbugs@logos.com that refers this forum thread, and requesting if we can get the correct version that other sites such as Bible Gateway uses.
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There does not appear to be a single "correct" version. The publisher has several versions with minor differences. For example, this blog post linked on another thread refers to two versions (though its diagnostic verse suggestion of Matt 2:3 doesn't differentiate the two edtiions we've found for Isa 44:1). Since there are NKJV Bibles published since 1985 with two different texts, I think the information the author of that blog post was given by the publisher was inaccurate. I found one of my print NKJV Bibles (a study Bible from Zondervan published in 2018) has Isa 44:1 with "hear now" (not "hear me now"), while the NKJV Study Bible from 2007 on archive.org has "hear me now."
This is more like a textual variant in English translation than an error. I've had the same trouble with the ESV's quiet updates where I've memorized verses in the original 2001 text, and the changes they've made since then are not reflected in their published lists of changes.
I'm not on the team that deals with third-party resources and fixing typos here at Logos, but I suspect that since our NKJV text does match the publisher's source files and matches a print exemplar of the NKJV, then it will not be considered a bug or an error to correct. We reproduced what the publisher provided. It is frustrating that they use the 1982 copyright for these variant editions, so there would have been no way for us to know there were differences either.
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Doug Mangum said:
It is frustrating that they use the 1982 copyright for these variant editions, so there would have been no way for us to know there were differences either.
The other resource you discussed (ACCS-Romans) was a good example where the publisher did note a new date in his official copyright, to reflect corrections/re-wording. Too bad it's not an industry practice (though would impact sales, presumably).
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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Thank you for weighing in Doug. I agree with you.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Doug Mangum said:
... the ESV's quiet updates ...
I came to the conclusion that they were in a hurry to get it in print and to the market, and then spent the next 3 or 4 years correcting things that should have been done before the first printing.
I was really glad when they declared the 2016 revision as "the permanent text edition" ... but they reversed that decision shortly after making it.
But as far as I know, the 2016 edition is still the latest.
I was wondering if the upcoming CGBM driven revisions to NA29 might cause a revision to many of the translations ... ?
But the NKJV of course, should be in a class by itself, not affected by changes to the critical texts.
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Would it make sense to have a disclaimer on the store page then that addresses this?
Like how the KJV 1900 distinguishes which variant it uses.
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In my opinion, Logos should contact Thomas Nelson and ask for the latest source file of the NKJV which should be of the 1984 revision.
Other than actual word differences, there are several issues with how paragraphs are marked in the Logos edition. It's inconsistent formatting.
The section headings especially in the Gospels never match the printed copies of the NKJV.I would personally love to see a verse by verse NKJV Logos edition in addition to the paragraph-formatted one exactly how it was done in the case of the NASB95.
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Of course, you can format the text in logos to make it appear verse by verse - but I get what you are saying. It's nice that NASB is verse by verse by default. LSB is also verse by verse by default.
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Gives one new respect for the accuracy of the original hand-copied manuscripts! We can't even do digital copies without inadvertently creating variants!
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I would personally love to see a verse by verse NKJV Logos edition in addition to the paragraph-formatted one exactly how it was done in the case of the NASB95.
Does this option meet your needs?
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Unfortunately, the quality of the formatting using the 'One verse per line' hack doesn't even come close to a real verse-by-verse edition like the NASB95. The indentation of poetical sections or quotes all look bad for example. Also, the NASB95 still marks the start of paragraphs beautifully using bold verse numbers so you don't lose that information. It even solves challenges like Jam 3:5 where a new paragraph starts in the middle of a verse.
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Yep, I am somewhat OCD about text formatting. I have often wished for more control over the format. I believe the challenge lies in different publishers adopting various approaches and how Logos chooses to honor that as they deliver the text to you.
If you tweak the format settings like this, is this a bit better?
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@Donovan R. Palmer
Text formatting is crucial for readability. Unfortunately, the Logos edition of the NKJV is just not formatted well. It's probably the fault of the style-sheet of the source file that the publisher provided to Logos. But Thomas Nelson does have good formatting available for the NKJV. Just compare how BibleGateway (subsidiary of TN) displays Jer 1.
The Logos text is a mess in comparison.
To be fair, Jer 1 is tough from a typesetting perspective but how about simple prose like Num 22? Well, this should be easy, but in the Logos text it is still hard to tell accurately where a new paragraph starts. v2 and v7 use some indentation, but the other paragraphs do not. It's inconsistent.
So yeah, forget the 'one verse per line' hack and playing with text reformatting to try to turn this into a decent verse-by-verse format. Even the unchanged, native paragraph formatting of this Logos NKJV text leaves a lot to be desired.
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Shame there has been no update to this error. At the very least, a notice saying this is a variant NKJV on the product page would be enough to ensure customers are not being misled.
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