Witness to cultists Logos book recommandation please
I am NOT looking for reference works that describe specific cults and what they believe or give Bible answers.
I am NOT looking either for well-meaning folks to go look on the Logos website and reply with "maybe you could try this?".
What I am looking for is solid work on witnessing to someone who is in a cult (preferrably pseudo-christian). I am looking for is personal recommandations of Logos books you have read and used that give solid advice on how to witness to people who in cults up to their ears.
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I can't really help because I don't know enough of the actual situation. However, when an ex-in-law got involved in a well-known cult, we were concerned re: the children. What we did was research what were the weak elements of the cult - the topics that had caused others to leave the cult and the topics that were the last for a cult member to buy into. Then we made opportunities to plant seeds of doubt on those topics.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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I do not recommend the Lynn Wilder book.
"The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected."- G.K. Chesterton
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Anything by Geisler …
When Cultists Ask
proceeds through the Bible, book by book, showing how cults have used prominent texts for their own purposes. The authors then give the orthodox interpretation of the passage in question, and illustrate how the text has been isolated by one or more of the groups to support their own doctrine.
from the Logos product page
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The updated renamed version of When Cultist Ask.
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Thanks, I didn’t know they had a newer version. I have the hard copy on my bookshelf and I bought it so many years ago I’m sure it was the first version. 😂
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Strange, the newer one has an older publication date. Looks like it’s a wordsearch file and it is lacking the number of pages in its description
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Thanks @DAL and @John. I am not really looking for a Bible guide. I have what I need in that domain.
The problem is that pretty much every cult knows what their issues are and trains their members to expect "objections" and shield themselves with stock answers. They have twisted so much that it takes deeper Bible study to get them to see the answers except that most are so captive that they just deflect Bible correction. So, I am more looking for the counsel of disciplers who have a proven track record of helping cultists see the light. I know prayer is a given. I am also looking at supplemental ways to best work with them instead of getting bogged down in arguments that go nowhere.
This is the sort of resource I am looking for. I looked some into the Logos catalog and did not really see anything like that, but perhaps I missed good options. That's what I'm looking for.
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A few I’ve found useful in addition to the above
David Reed: Answered verse by verse series
Reasoning from the scriptures by Ron Rhodes
Answering Mormons questions by McKeever
Geisler also has a skeptics and cultists versions that are similar to the when critics ask book
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Well, first, they're not a cult. And the derogatory can be easily seen in your eyes, during any discussion. Second, most 'why I left' is failed behaviors. Leaders, family, friends … social relationships.
Each person is going to be different … listening is the key; what frustrates or causes doubt.
I know, you want a book. A proven technique.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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I looked some into the Logos catalog and did not really see anything like that, but perhaps I missed good options. That's what I'm looking for.
Ok I think I get it now. I do not know of anything in Logos. But if you go to Amazon and search for CULT DEPROGRAMMING you might find some interesting titles …
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Most sociologists and anthropologists have rejected the term cult; it has no fixed meaning other than "religion that I don't like."
Most counter-cult books are very low scholarship with little self-awareness.
Most tales of deconversion/conversion (regardless of direction or group) tend to adopt very quickly the paradigm and tropes of the new identity… which means they don't actually reveal much about the old group as much as perform confirmation bias for the new group.
Much of religious conversion is a function of paradigm shifts and personal experiences, not simple ignorance of individual Bible verses (which type of argument presumes a universal paradigm). Similarly, much arguing over Bible verses is really about unrecognized or incommensurate paradigms.
And I don't know any book in Logos that lays this out neatly."The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected."- G.K. Chesterton
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Most sociologists and anthropologists have rejected the term cult; it has no fixed meaning other than "religion that I don't like."
Most counter-cult books are very low scholarship with little self-awareness.
When I was in school, cult had a very specific meaning in anthropology and comparative religion and was considered a necessary step in the development of a new religion or denomination. The corruption of cult into a pejorative caused a switch of terms to NRM (New religious movement) - TLAs are conquering the world as perfectly good words get abused in popularization. Unfortunately, I suspect Francis is on a fools' mission to find a quality book for his purpose.
TLA (three letter acronym)
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Unfortunately, I think he’ll find plenty of what he’s looking for ;) It’s just never the silver bullet people think, because the framing is more complicated than people tend to understand.
"The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected."- G.K. Chesterton
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Shrek wants help with cults. 😅
I think the most effective apologetics can only be found when we know exactly what organization you're referring to.
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I think I'm good. This thread has overextended its usefulness as far as I am concerned.
Thank you to those who tried to answer what I actually asked. Some other replies reminded me of Gandalf's answer to Bilbo's "Good morning."
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Your vague question didn't warrant proper answers. The content to respond to one belief is not the same as another one.
You won't even tell us what cult it is that you're talking about. Different assemblies believe different things.
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This discussion has been closed as it is quickly straying off from the intent of the OP. Thank you.
Sr. Community Manager at Logos.
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