Other theological dictionaries in searches?
Comments
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Dave Hooton said:
... yet L4 came out with this arcane approach via Basic Search when BWS Definition was the obvious area to concentrate on). Net result - L4 is backwards on any real progress in the areas of both topic searching and metadata accuracy, and Logos appears to have lost one of its Information Architects.
That's a long way of agreeing with the other MVP's here!
One clarification search terms: BWS exposes only the terms you can actually find in your Bible. So unless you have KJV as your preferred Bible, you won't ever see "Jimnah" as a search term, since that form is only used in the KJV (Gen 46:17): modern translations use "Imnah" instead.
On the other hand, Basic Search really does expose almost all the terms you can find in your library. And Biblical People exposes all the common variants of names that mean the same thing and are within the Biblical scope (so you can search BP for "Jimnah" regardless of your preferred Bible, but you can't search for Philo because he's not found in the Biblical text). We're actually trying to carefully design our features so you get the right behavior in the right place without having to think too hard about it (granted that we're still working toward that goal).
And no, this Information Architect is no more lost than he was before [:)]
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Todd Phillips said:
... I appreciate that you have a prioritized list--I hope that the IVP dictionaries are very high on the list. I'm also hoping that some resources that aren't directly related to "Biblical Studies" per se are on your list, like Oxford dictionary of the Christian Church, the New Dictionary of Theology, the Dictionary of Christianity in America and other similar are also fairly high on the list.
I'm assuming in the future I can type in the last name of an individual, and get results for all person topics with that last name?
Yes, the IVP dictionaries are reasonably high on the list, though we're starting with those resources that have the broadest placement in our base packages.
We definitely would like to extend the LCV to individuals in church history as well as more detailed theological concepts, though that's a little further down the road. But I hope we'll get to the point where you can type "Calvin" and get links to biographical articles, as well as "sermons by", "resources about", etc. Likewise, I'd love to offer the ability to enter "Wesley", get links to information about John, but then also provide a link for resources about Charles (in the same way that a search for "bear" currently offers you three different concepts described by that term).
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Sean Boisen said:
One clarification search terms: BWS exposes only the terms you can actually find in your Bible. So unless you have KJV as your preferred Bible, you won't ever see "Jimnah" as a search term, since that form is only used in the KJV (Gen 46:17): modern translations use "Imnah" instead.
Okay if I disagree with your logic here - I'm more apt to be looking for names in forms that AREN'T in my Bibles - they are more apt to be unfamiliar.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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MJ. Smith said:Sean Boisen said:
One clarification search terms: BWS exposes only the terms you can actually find in your Bible. So unless you have KJV as your preferred Bible, you won't ever see "Jimnah" as a search term, since that form is only used in the KJV (Gen 46:17): modern translations use "Imnah" instead.
Okay if I disagree with your logic here - I'm more apt to be looking for names in forms that AREN'T in my Bibles - they are more apt to be unfamiliar.
Me too, but it makes sense to me that I'd need to search for that somewhere else than via Bible Word Search. However I wish it would use a combined list of words that are found in any of the Bibles I have in my library. Even though my preferred Bible might be TNIV, I might remember a word from the days when I was using KJV and not realize that it isn't translated that way in TNIV, and I might want to do a word study on it.
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MJ. Smith said:Sean Boisen said:
One clarification search terms: BWS exposes only the terms you can actually find in your Bible. So unless you have KJV as your preferred Bible, you won't ever see "Jimnah" as a search term, since that form is only used in the KJV (Gen 46:17): modern translations use "Imnah" instead.
Okay if I disagree with your logic here - I'm more apt to be looking for names in forms that AREN'T in my Bibles - they are more apt to be unfamiliar.
In that case you'll want to use Bible Search (or Biblical People/Places) instead. I'm not proposing this is more logical, only asserting that it's the current behavior.
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Sean Boisen said:MJ. Smith said:Sean Boisen said:
One clarification search terms: BWS exposes only the terms you can actually find in your Bible. So unless you have KJV as your preferred Bible, you won't ever see "Jimnah" as a search term, since that form is only used in the KJV (Gen 46:17): modern translations use "Imnah" instead.
Okay if I disagree with your logic here - I'm more apt to be looking for names in forms that AREN'T in my Bibles - they are more apt to be unfamiliar.
In that case you'll want to use Bible Search (or Biblical People/Places) instead. I'm not proposing this is more logical, only asserting that it's the current behavior.
The point is that we can select virtually any word and get a definition from BWS eg. I can enter holy but have to use the context menu for holiness (which is in my bible).
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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Mike Binks said:
In the case of the Zondervan bundle, I feel conned and what is more with the current advertisement on the product page other customers are likely to be conned too.
I don't feel conned, but I was certainly disappointed as well. It seems a bit like release it quick and add features on the fly. This used to not bother me so much, but a few years ago I got fed up with computing problems and moved to a position where I just wanted computing solutions that just fully worked out of the box, were stable and were of extremely high quality. Because the Zondervan stuff was released post 4.0, I had expectations for full compatibility.
Suggestion: Perhaps product pages should have an icon indicating full compatibility for Logos 4? Obviously what "full compatibility" is would need to be defined, but it would help users wade through what resources are still optimised for L3 and which ones really take advantage of L4's capabilities.
<soapbox> The other trouble with the solution of release quick and add features on the fly is that we expect that everyone can download endless large updates. The recent interlinear updates were HUGE. There are parts of the US and indeed the rest of the world where this is a very big problem. </soapbox>
My two pence worth. I still like Logos, but this would be a humble critique of what appears to be the prevailing wind of the L4 generation of products.
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Donovan R. Palmer said:
Suggestion: Perhaps product pages should have an icon indicating full compatibility for Logos 4? Obviously what "full compatibility" is would need to be defined, but it would help users wade through what resources are still optimised for L3 and which ones really take advantage of L4's capabilities.
This post from Bob explains why he doesn't think the lack of LCV tagging constitutes incompatibility with L4: "It never occurred to me that you'd consider a book not indexed to the
LCV to be incomplete."This is my personal Faithlife account. On 1 March 2022, I started working for Faithlife, and have a new 'official' user account. Posts on this account shouldn't be taken as official Faithlife views!
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Mark Barnes said:
This post from Bob explains why he doesn't think the lack of LCV tagging constitutes incompatibility with L4: "It never occurred to me that you'd consider a book not indexed to the
LCV to be incomplete."However in that post Bob is looking at it from a production rather than a users point of view.
I do a Passage Guide for a reference. Opening up on my left hand pane are 17 tags. The bottom four are links to outside sources and the top one for my own notes. Of the others, now 12, that interact with my paid for resources, three Biblical People, Biblical Places and Biblical Things do not work with the resource.
Now as a user that looks to me like one third of my program is non-functioning. I know that this discounts many other features not in that list that may work or may not.
How are we users to know which areas of the program are affected by this tagging programme?.
The whole ethos of Logos is set to encourage us to trust it to find the references in the resources and not to have to go hunting round each one individually.
That it did not find Elijah (or it would seem anyone else) in the Zondervan Encyclopaedia I think is a serious omission.
I am afraid that Bob's line simply shows a lack of imagination and in this case little appreciation of the user experience.
Mike
tootle pip
Mike
Now tagging post-apocalyptic fiction as current affairs. Latest Logos, MacOS, iOS and iPadOS
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Mike Binks said:
However in that post Bob is looking at it from a production rather than a users point of view.
I am afraid that Bob's line simply shows a lack of imagination and in this case little appreciation of the user experience.
You're obviously right about this, though I sympathise with him as it's unusual for him. I'm glad he's admitted as much, rather than trying to cover up. (I'm sure he's so familiar with the way Logos works and the company's policies that he sometimes 'forgets' how things can seem to those people without that knowledge.)
This is my personal Faithlife account. On 1 March 2022, I started working for Faithlife, and have a new 'official' user account. Posts on this account shouldn't be taken as official Faithlife views!
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Mike Binks said:
Of the others, now 12, that interact with my paid for resources, three Biblical People, Biblical Places and Biblical Things do not work with the resource.
I don't think this is correct. Those three sections of the Passage Guide are meant to show specific items that are mentioned in the passage in question, to link you to the Biblical People/Places/Things pages for them, and to preview their references and media images that pertain to them.
If you look up James 3:3, under Biblical Things you'll find "bit and bridle", and if you have the Zondervan Encyclopedia, an image from the first volume showing "a youth controlling his horse with a bridle" .
If you look up Job 28:7, you'll find a reference to a falcon, and a picture from the first volume of a "limestone figurine of a falcon" .
If you look up Matt 22:17, you'll find Tiberius Caesar under Biblical People (note, even though the verse itself doesn't disambiguate which Caesar this is, Logos does), and a picture of a coin with an image of TIberius.
I appreciate that you can't always know what tagging is and is not complete: that's complex, hard to communicate, and changes frequently. But we are working hard to make the program, the resources, and the data that ties them together better, quite literally every (working) day.
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Sean Boisen said:
If you look up Matt 22:17, you'll find Tiberius Caesar under Biblical People (note, even though the verse itself doesn't disambiguate which Caesar this is, Logos does), and a picture of a coin with an image of TIberius.
I take you point Sean, and if I am guilty of overstating my case then I apologies.
However if I want to move from the Link to Tiberius Caesar the only dictionary that is listed is the NBD and it was this shortage that I wanted the Zondervan Encyclopaedia to alleviate.
However now I know I can open the resource from the library and search it from there - kind of defeats the purpose though.
Thanks for pointing out to me some of the ways these facilities can be used though.
Mike
tootle pip
Mike
Now tagging post-apocalyptic fiction as current affairs. Latest Logos, MacOS, iOS and iPadOS
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Yes, that's the symptom of the previously noted fact that the Zondervan Encyclopedia isn't yet included in the LCV.
I think the best workaround for now is the one Mark Barnes has mentioned above. That is:
- follow the link to a dictionary that is included (like NBD)
- use the '+' icon to show parallel resources.
It's not perfect, but it will work the large majority of the time.
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Sean Boisen said:
Yes, that's the symptom of the previously noted fact that the Zondervan Encyclopedia isn't yet included in the LCV.
I think the best workaround for now is the one Mark Barnes has mentioned above. That is:
- follow the link to a dictionary that is included (like NBD)
- use the '+' icon to show parallel resources.
It's not perfect, but it will work the large majority of the time.
Sorry Sean - Now I am lost -
I click on Naboth|NBD
oth
Am I looking in the right place for the plus icon?
I have discovered that by right clicking on the word 'Naboth ' in the above clip I can find entries to a number of other dictionaries that do not show up in Biblical People.
In my Resources these are
Colins English Dictionary
Harper's Bible Dictionary
Holman's Illustrated Bible Dictionary
Easton's Bible Dictionary
but still no entry for the Zondervan Encyclopaedia :-(
Thank for your help
Mike
tootle pip
Mike
Now tagging post-apocalyptic fiction as current affairs. Latest Logos, MacOS, iOS and iPadOS
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Mike,
If you have a resource open (like a bible dictionary) and there is information found in another parallel resource, there will be a small (hard to see) plus sign to the right of the tab.
If you click this plus sign, a window with resources "having the same articles" in them will open.
Robert Pavich
For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__
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Thanks Robert
Robert Pavich said:If you have a resource open (like a bible dictionary) and there is information found in another parallel resource, there will be a small (hard to see) plus sign to the right of the tab.
But as you can see from my screen shot this does not appear to be the case on the Mac Version.
tootle pip
Mike
tootle pip
Mike
Now tagging post-apocalyptic fiction as current affairs. Latest Logos, MacOS, iOS and iPadOS
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Mike Binks said:
Thanks Robert
Robert Pavich said:If you have a resource open (like a bible dictionary) and there is information found in another parallel resource, there will be a small (hard to see) plus sign to the right of the tab.
But as you can see from my screen shot this does not appear to be the case on the Mac Version.
I'm sorry Mike, i didn't realize you were using the Mac alpha version (which i have to admit i know nothing about), or that this feature isn't there yet. I'll have to leave it to the Mac users to suggest what the best equivalent is here.
On the windows version you can prioritize your resources, and that changes the order in which they occur on the right-click menu. If that feature is available on the Mac alpha, prioritizing the Zondervan dictionaries might make them appear on the right-click menu.
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Sean Boisen said:
I'm sorry Mike, i didn't realize you were using the Mac alpha version (which i have to admit i know nothing about), or that this feature isn't there yet. I'll have to leave it to the Mac users to suggest what the best equivalent is here.
On the windows version you can prioritize your resources, and that changes the order in which they occur on the right-click menu. If that feature is available on the Mac alpha, prioritizing the Zondervan dictionaries might make them appear on the right-click menu.
Hi Sean and Robert,
You know enough to point me in the right direction - prioritising them worked - and what is more prioritising one prioritised them all.
Thanks again for taking the time to help.
Mike
tootle pip
Mike
Now tagging post-apocalyptic fiction as current affairs. Latest Logos, MacOS, iOS and iPadOS
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Mark asked a question earlier which was not fully answered. His question was why the ability to find via the tab functionality can't be integrated into the search tool?
I think we can extend the question well beyond the tab ability to all the workarounds that have been mentioned that prove to provide EXISTING access to topics. Why can't these be directly searched now since they exist ALREADY?
For instance, why can't we search headwords in lexical resources? These are obviously indexed already! I believe that it is the presence of these headwords in the index that account for the additional hits that can be found through the new tab and the various reports or guides. It seems that the LCV project might take a while yet. Would it be really complicated to give us access to searching the existing headwords?
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Has Logos topical search been updated? I saw that it was Feb. 2010 when they said the update would be coming soon...
joel
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Joel J. said:
Has Logos topical search been updated? I saw that it was Feb. 2010 when they said the update would be coming soon...
Yes, it is updated regularly. Search the forums for LCV or "Logos Controlled Vocabulary" and you will see lots of mentions of it being updated. You can check when the latest update was by looking for the file LCV.lbslcv in your resources folder (...Logos4\Data\random_folder_name\ResourceManager\Resources), and check its filedate. It looks to me like this database was last updated on March 17, 2011 (or at least that's the last time it downloaded to my machine).
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