Where did this feature go: topic browser
Comments
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holy smokes, somehow I read the first page and didn't realize there were 5 more before i posted. sorry! I may have written a reply that is now moot (or as some write, "mute." lol)
I like Apples. Especially Honeycrisp.
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I don't know how this fits in the whole discussion and what's cooking in the future for Logos 4 or yet again whether this point is already mentioned in the threads that parallel the discussion here, but I noticed that there are entries from topical resources (eg, Nelson's topical index, Nave's) that show up under the Topics sections in the Passage Guide.
That's more than what we get in a plain search but not more than searching a collection of Bible Dictionaries and Bible topical resources. In other words, it is still just a few resources that show up topically. Makes you wonder why topical resources do show in the PG but not in the topics section of a regular search.
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Personally still looking for Logos to upgrade topic search instead of the current down-grade from the L3 topic search.
I know it has been said that L3 didn't efficiently do topic searches. However, L3 is STILL (8 mo. later) head/shoulders above L4 in topic searching. (which I used 20+ times a week)
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There's been a lot of talk about Logos's LCV database that they are working on (Logos Controlled Vocabulary) which will let them tag all resources with "topic" like fields. I don't know if they realize how urgent it is that they finish that work so we can get real topic searching working again. A recent post by Louis St. Hilaire indicated that this is apparently long and laborious labor, to complete the LCV database and retag every dictionary so that it works with these new topic fields. Once that is done it will apparently be much faster to do topic searches than it was in L3, but in the meantime we wait, wait, wait. Or go back to L3.
I hope I've conveyed adequately to Louis how important this functionality is to so many people. I'll also refer him to this thread which has become active again.
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Rosie Perera said:
I hope I've conveyed adequately to Louis how important this functionality is to so many people. I'll also refer him to this thread which has become active again.
I agree. Topic searching is so integral to the use of bible study programs that I still can't understand how they could have put L4 out without having completed this part of the program. That being said, I do enjoy the other features that are available and am managing to get by with the searching as it is for now. But I also want to stress that topic searching should be right at the top of the list of priorities.
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TimEngwer said:
Topic searching is so integral to the use of bible study programs that I still can't understand how they could have put L4 out without having completed this part of the program.
Just so you and everyone know; Bob said that he had two choices:
1.) don't release until ALL of everyone's wish list is granted for features....
2.) Release when the features that the DATA said MOST users used most often.
He thought it was more important to get the software into the hands of those who wanted it. Those who wished to wait till all of the -features were in place...could do so with no harm done.
Just an FYI on why it was released when it did.
Robert Pavich
For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__
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Robert Pavich said:
2.) Release when the features that the DATA said MOST users used most often.
What data was Logos looking at? I think that a Topic Search is something that more people use than Logos thought would. I wish that implementing it could be at the top of Logos' list.
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Jeremy said:
What data was Logos looking at? I think that a Topic Search is something that more people use than Logos thought would.
They didn't tell me... [;)]
Robert Pavich
For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__
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Hi Jeremy,
Like others, I don't know either... however Bob did make a very interesting point that's relevant. He commented that on the remaining features there was something like 5-10% of users who were vested in each feature---a different 5-10% on each one... And the data they looked at was on the usage stats to make Libronix better (that some--many?-- of us--me included--opted out of). It turns out that that info was used to make decisions about something I really cared about. [:O]
Blessings!
Grace & Peace,
Bill
MSI GF63 8RD, I-7 8850H, 32GB RAM, 1TB SSD, 2TB HDD, NVIDIA GTX 1050Max
iPhone 12 Pro Max 512Gb
iPad 9th Gen iOS 15.6, 256GB0 -
BillS said:
Hi Jeremy,
Like others, I don't know either... however Bob did make a very interesting point that's relevant. He commented that on the remaining features there was something like 5-10% of users who were vested in each feature---a different 5-10% on each one... And the data they looked at was on the usage stats to make Libronix better (that some--many?-- of us--me included--opted out of). It turns out that that info was used to make decisions about something I really cared about.
Blessings!
Why would they elect to use that data knowing that many users opt out? (I'd imagine they could easily determine the number of those who opt out.)
Why not use that data (limited) and send out an email survey (they do have everyone's emails)? Seems like putting all your eggs in one basket isn't a good idea.
Also, I did NOT print much in L3... Didn't really need to... (a lot of cut and paste). I DO NEED to print a lot in L4.... THEY ARE COMPLETELY DIFFERENT PROGRAMS!
Every one has majored on L4 being soo different. Why use L3 stats to determine L4 functions then? My issue with my line of thinking here is that while I didn't use printing much in L3 I NEED it in L4 because of the new features (clippings the biggest, but also many of the new reports). If your going to add new features seems reasonable that you need to think about what users will need to support those new features.
It is obvious (at least to most) that Logos missed the boat with a few things... However, I am confident they are taking note and I expect them to make printing available soon.
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J. Morris said:
Why use L3 stats to determine L4 functions then?
Hindsight is great isn't it? [;)]
Just funning with you...I'm guessing that there wasn't many ways to go about knowing how your userbase uses the software...user generated stats would be a good one.
Robert Pavich
For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__
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Here's the choice:
- You can use Logos 4 from November 2009, with 90% of the features that 90% of the users use most (stats are illustrative, not accurate).
- You can wait, use Logos 4 from November 2010, with 100% of the features that 100% of the users use most.
All of us Logos 4 users chose option (1). Option (2) is still open for us (L3 still works!). The point is that all features require developmental time, and have to be prioritised. There are a limited number of developers, and a limited amount of time, and presumably a limited amount of cash. We can't have everything all at once. Logos didn't think "I bet no-one wants to print", and we're now proving them wrong. They thought "It's really complicated coding a print function. As most things people want to print can be copied/pasted into Word, there's an easy workaround for now. So let's focus our coding time on features that can't be worked around (like super-fast searching, dynamic collections and a wonderful UI). We'll get onto printing as soon as we can."
This is my personal Faithlife account. On 1 March 2022, I started working for Faithlife, and have a new 'official' user account. Posts on this account shouldn't be taken as official Faithlife views!
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I don't have L3 loaded, so I can't confirm this. But I think topic browsing was on it's way out long before L4. If I remember correctly, I purchased Chafer's systematic theology back in April of 2007 (it may have been a different set) and it was not tagged for topics. I had to go the subject index and select subject links to find, what used to be called "topics".
I complained, but at the time CS didn't seem to understand why I found the topic browser so important.
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DHG said:
CS didn't seem to understand why I found the topic browser so important.
That may be true. However, Logos does recognize the importance of the topic browser and is trying to redo it in a method that will produce much better results than L3 could. In another thread Sean states that Logos has added a staff member to speed the progress of the tagging portion of the function.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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I would add that the topic browser didn't include all of the dictionaries in L3 either.
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My basic search will not give me a topics section. Also, it doesn't look like the screen shot above when starting the search. It asks me to search "all text" in "collection X"? Is there a way to get it to show like above or at least give me a topics section? I keep getting evert hit for the word rather than when it is a topic.
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Rev Arthur Joseph said:
My basic search will not give me a topics section.
Try viewing this wiki article: Topic found in Basic Search
You will need to click on item #3 as shown in the above wiki article
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Rev Arthur Joseph said:
Is there a way to get it to show like above or at least give me a topics section?
In order to get the topics section, you need to make sure that the "collection X" spot is set to "Entire Library" (click on it to indicate your choice).
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Sean Boisen said:
I know some disagree and would prefer the topic browsing experience of L3. Please be assured that we care about improving your experience, and we're doing our best to balance that with all the other challenges of providing a rich, complex application like Logos 4.
I have purchased thousands of dollars of books within Logos over 15 or more years. I'd like to be able to search my library for topic/subject headings that contain a chosen word. I don't need to wade through every use of the word.
I know you already understand what I'm saying and may sympathize. Your idea of concepts is theoretically better. However the reality is that this is a serious issue that affects me regularly, now. At times I even consider repurchasing some of the hard-back books I got rid of when added them in Logos, so I can find things faster.
Lately I'm finding that I can find some type of information faster on
the web than fooling with Logos. The problem is that I know the caliber
and theological viewpoint of the works I own, but I don't for stuff on
the web. Furthermore I paid for these works and want to get the most use
out of them. I am really, really disappointed in this situation.Have a great day,
jmac0 -
Appears Logos 4.3 SR-3 could improve topical search.
For example, searching All Text in Entire Library for marriage customs includes topic section, but some Topic articles are not found when searching Heading Text and Large Text for marriage customs:
Wish "Heading Text" or "Large Text" would include Table of Content entries. Looking at Libronix 3.0g Topic Browser, noticed 3 articles listed for marriage customs, with 2 included in Logos 4.3 SR-3 library search topic section.
Keep Smiling [:)]
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... For example, searching All Text in Entire Library for marriage customs includes topic section, but some Topic articles are not found when searching Heading Text and Large Text for marriage customs:
We're still integrating resources into our concept index (the Logos Controlled Vocabulary). This is a time-consuming task which requires analyzing each article and determining where it matches our inventory of ~11k topics. The Zondervan Dictionary of Bible Themes is currently in process, which is why that article doesn't yet appear in the Topics section of Search.
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Sean Boisen said:
... For example, searching All Text in Entire Library for marriage customs includes topic section, but some Topic articles are not found when searching Heading Text and Large Text for marriage customs:
We're still integrating resources into our concept index (the Logos Controlled Vocabulary). This is a time-consuming task which requires analyzing each article and determining where it matches our inventory of ~11k topics. The Zondervan Dictionary of Bible Themes is currently in process, which is why that article doesn't yet appear in the Topics section of Search.
Likewise, as far as searching Heading Text, we've updated the annotation of about 500 resources so far so their headings can be searched (i think this is really what Jim was looking for), though I don't believe all those updates have shipped yet. So you can expect continued improvement on heading search as well.
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Sean Boisen said:
we've updated the annotation of about 500 resources so far
My top 500 I assume[:D] [Okay, I'll grudgingly admit that my top 500 wouldn't have as big an impact across your client base as some others' top 500.[;)]]
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Sean Boisen said:
So you can expect continued improvement on heading search as well.
As one who has mourned the absence of the Topic Browser, I will say that Large Text and Heading searches do help so all you can produce that is searchable there is good. It is good to see more are being added to the list.
Still, having what amounts to a real (think back of the book) index for each resource that can be searched would be the ideal.
Pastor, North Park Baptist Church
Bridgeport, CT USA
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steve clark said:
Try viewing this wiki article: Topic found in Basic Search
I just found this post and am really want to thank Steve for posting the link. I'm also very happy to have a topic search again. Thank you Steve and Logos.
Have a great day,
jmac0 -
Hey Mark you can add my name to the list (voting with both hands rsised) i wrote on the forum before i seen this answer.
this was one of my first observations when i got L4. and i still use L3 mostly for this reason.
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Graeme Campbell said:
Hey Mark you can add my name to the list (voting with both hands rsised) i wrote on the forum before i seen this answer.
this was one of my first observations when i got L4. and i still use L3 mostly for this reason.
Hi Graeme - glad you found this thread. I tried to find it before posting, but my eyes could not catch it, thus the suggested search. Welcome to the forums.
Blessings,
FloydPastor-Patrick.blogspot.com
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I already purchased Logos 4 and am praying that Logos would allow me to search for key words in all the titles, for this is the best way to research my library with article that pertain to the topic I need to research
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Ben Lavicka said:
I already purchased Logos 4 and am praying that Logos would allow me to search for key words in all the titles, for this is the best way to research my library with article that pertain to the topic I need to research
You can search for words in "Large Text" which I find very effect at heading searches. I think that is what you are looking for.
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Ben Lavicka said:
I already purchased Logos 4 and am praying that Logos would allow me to search for key words in all the titles, for this is the best way to research my library with article that pertain to the topic I need to research
As an alternative to Basic Search in Entire Library for "Holy Spirit"
- In the Command box type lookup holy spirit
- This will give you an article in one of your bible dictionaries.
- Click the Parallel resources sets icon to see that in other dictionaries.
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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Ben Lavicka said:
I already purchased Logos 4 and am praying that Logos would allow me to search for key words in all the titles, for this is the best way to research my library with article that pertain to the topic I need to research
Ben:
You can search in Headings, which i think is what you mean by "titles" (adding Large Text will give you more hits). Unfortunately, we have to change the markup of each individual book to enable heading search, so not all books have this feature yet. We're working through them as quickly as we can, but there are a lot of books to update.
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yup
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Hi Gibson and welcome,
From the source of your reply I understand you want better topic searching. It would help if you quoted the post to which you are responding - see http://wiki.logos.com/Using_the_Forum#Reply_post_editor
Suggestions are now made to http://logos.uservoice.com/forums/42823-logos-bible-software-4/ and you will have 10 votes. You can vote for the existing suggestion at http://logos.uservoice.com/forums/42823-logos-bible-software-4/suggestions/510241-bring-back-topic-search-and-fuzzy-search but note that it is Planned, so you can vote for others.
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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I have come across this problem with dictionaries and encyclopedias. I don't understand how it is a "trade-off" to support certain "search fields" for some and not others. Why is the Eerdmans Dictionary of the Bible have full search field support, but the black IVP bible dictionaries are not? It is an extremely frustrating limitation.
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Danny Zacharias said:
Why is the Eerdmans Dictionary of the Bible have full search field support, but the black IVP bible dictionaries are not? It is an extremely frustrating limitation.
Wonder about black IVP dictionary example(s) ?
Apologies: using Logos 4.5 Beta 14 (Release Candidate 1 download in progress), was unable to replicate:
Keep Smiling [:)]
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Could it be that the documentation that I'm basing my assumption on is incorrect? The dictionary of NT background says the search fields are footnote, large, and surface. Eerdmans does all 8.
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Danny Zacharias said:
The dictionary of NT background says the search fields are footnote, large, and surface
Concur Dictionary of NT Background has searchable Large Text (using Logos 4.5 Release Candidate 1):
:If change search to Heading Text, then no results are found in black IVP Dictionaries. When searching for topics, personally search Heading Text and Large Text.
Keep Smiling [:)]
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Sean, I have Logos 4.5 SR-2. There isn't anything like the "Topic Browser" in this version?
I want to be able to search all of my theological journals for a key word in the title of the journal article. How would I do that?
Thanks!
David
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Do a Basic search. Choose your Theological Journals collection to search in (you'll have to create this if you don't want to search each journal separately).
Now, where it says "All Text", change this to Heading Text. Then type your search criteria and press Enter.
This is my personal Faithlife account. On 1 March 2022, I started working for Faithlife, and have a new 'official' user account. Posts on this account shouldn't be taken as official Faithlife views!
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