Catholic Resources

Is any body interested in seeing the Catechism of the Catholic Church and its companion book available for the Logos software? I sure am; I think it would make a valuable reference set. For more information on these books, here are their ISBN numbers.

ISBN-13: 978-0879739768

ISBN-13: 978-0898704518

Another good Catholic reference would be the two volume series on 2nd Vatican Council documents by Austin Flannery. The ISBN number for volume one is as follows:

ISBN-13: 978-0918344397

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Comments

MJ. Smith

[Y]

TCBlack

The sheer value of these for comparative studies for everyone makes these a good suggestion.

St. Columcille

Yes, absolutely. There are soo many quotes that it uses like St. Athanasius, St. John Chrysostom, and documents from various councils like Vatican II and papal encyclicals. I would want the CCC to be printed after a full papal encyclicals are printed with some of the more recent influential and ecumenical councils from past the Nicene Post-Nicene Father volumes so that we can get the links from the CCC directly to those quotes from the CCC bibliographical content. Since right now, Vatican II documents is being offered on prepub, and Thomas Aquinas' "summa theologia," "summa contra gentile," and St. Anselm's works, the ANF and NPNF are already available, they would be able to set it up to link better.

So I'd wait on the CCC to be printed until we have all the bibliographical reference materials it quotes is out.

As such, I do believe I'd like to see more documents from all 21 ecumenical councils like Trent, Vatican I, and Florence, Lateran councils, councils of Lyons, Constance, Vienne and all the Doctors of the Church are completely out. With the ANF and NPNF volumes already out, we have the documents of the seven ecumenical councils before the Great Schism between Catholic and Orthodox as well as St. Augustine, St. Chrysostom, and others. So I think we are not all there yet. I would buy it still, if they made it before it, but I would hope that they can upgrade whatever they produce so as to access missing bibliographical links. I've notice that when I do my own studies with the CCC, I will go to the Vatican website and read something from Lumen Gentium and find that there are even more bibliographical quotes and notes that further cite other theologians and works. It is not so much a maze as a well documentated context.

So thumbs up on the suggestion. [Y] It is a great summary and quick reference, the CCC, but it is easily taken out of context if nobody looks at the references. Case in point, I post on a Christian forum website that states Catholics believe we become a god and quotes the CCC 460 which quotes St. Athanasius, yet the NPNF Protestant commentary states Athanasius was not teaching we could become "god" but that we are sharing in the theosis of God coming from 2 Peter 1.4. No matter telling people that is not what is being taught in that CCC document, we need to demonstrate it by the context of which the quotes cited are taken in their original textual context. So I hope you could wait until the above bold titles given above come out, so as to best demonstrate context whether it is accurate or inaccurately presented by those who both present Catholic teaching and those who oppose it. Always better to have the resources than in ignorance assume what a third party states it means good or bad.

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/220883#Comment_220883

we become a god

The "a" here verges on LDS theology as I understand it. A Catholic's view: Summa Theologiae 3.1.2. Aren't you glad you can look it up in Logos?[:D] Don't you wish you had Presence of God: a History of Western Christian Mysticism
by Bernard McGinn for an indepth Western analysis[:(]

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/220883#Comment_220883

So I'd wait on the CCC to be printed until we have all the bibliographical reference materials it quotes is out.

I think that publishing it together with the compendium which gives the original source should be sufficient - some who want the CCC may not be interested in purchasing the other documents. I do understand your concern regarding misunderstanding but tend to think misunderstandings are unavoidable. First, it is difficult to get some to understand how diverse Catholics are. Second, when groups use the same words to mean different things it can take years to realize we don't disagree - evidence discussions with Lutherans and Greek Orthodox.

Simon Wright

Hi,

Have you tried BIBLIA CLERUS? not as good as logos but has great content including the 1997 catechism

Deacon Simon

Ralph A. Abernethy III

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/220944#Comment_220944

[Y] for making the Catechism of the Catechism of the Catholic and the documents of Vatican II available in Logos.

Kevin Becker

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/220951#Comment_220951

documents of Vatican II

http://www.logos.com/product/8825/vatican-ii-documents

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/220944#Comment_220944

Hi,

Have you tried BIBLIA CLERUS? not as good as logos but has great content including the 1997 catechism

Deacon Simon

Agreed. And VulSearch4 has the standard gloss on the Vulgate - another resource which should be in Logos.

St. Columcille

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/220894#Comment_220894

I have the Summa Theologica from the Logos, and I do not believe this is the cited word within the CCC 460. However, it does seem almost verbatum of St. Athanasius says. The Summa Theologica on Logos does not link the CXXVIII Sermon on the Birth of Our Lord, and I am having problems looking for it on the NPNF series. Here is Aquinas:

"Fifthly, with regard to the full participation of the Divinity, which is the true bliss of man and end of human life; and this is bestowed upon us by Christ’s humanity; for Augustine says in a sermon on the Birth of Our Lord (CXXVIII.): God was made man, that man might be made God."

Thomas Aquinas, S., & Fathers of the English Dominican Province. (2009). Summa theologica (Complete English ed.). Bellingham, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc.

CCC 460 "For the Son of God became man so that we might become God." 80 St. Athanasius, De inc. 54, 3: PG 25, 192B.

Except taken from http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/p122a3p1.htm#460.

Athanasius: 3. For He was made man that we might be made God; and He manifested Himself by a body that we might receive the idea of the unseen Father; and He endured the insolence of men that we might inherit immortality. For while He Himself was in no way injured, being impossible and incorruptible and very Word and God, men who were suffering, and for whose sakes He endured all this, He maintained and preserved in His own impossibility.

Schaff, P. (1997). The Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers Second Series Vol. IV (65). Oak Harbor: Logos Research Systems.

The footnotes states the following:

θεοποιηθωμεν. See Orat. ii. 70, note 1, and many other passages in those Discourses, as well as Letters 60. 4, 61 2. (Eucharistic reference), de Synodis 51, note 7. (Compare also Iren. IV. xxxviii. 4, ‘non ab initio dii facti sumus, sed primo quidem homines, tunc demum dii,’ cf. ib. praef. 4. fin. also V. ix. 2, ‘sublevat in vitam Dei.’ Origen Cels. iii. 28 fin. touches the same thought, but Ath. is here in closer affinity to the idea of Irenaeus than to that of Origen.) The New Test. reference is 2 Pet. i. 4, rather than Heb. ii. 9 sqq; the Old Test., Ps. lxxxii. 6, which seems to underlie Orat. iii. 25 (note 5). In spite of the last mentioned passage, ‘God’ is far preferable as a rendering, in most places, to ‘gods,’ which has heathenish associations. To us (1 Cor. viii. 6) there are no such things as ‘gods.’ (The best summary of patristic teaching on this subject is given by Harnack Dg. ii. p. 46 note.)

Schaff, P. (1997). The Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers Second Series Vol. IV. Oak Harbor: Logos Research Systems.

Iren. IV. xxxviii.4 states the following:

For after His great kindness He graciously conferred good [upon us], and made men like to Himself, [that is] in their own power; while at the same time by His prescience He knew the infirmity of human beings, and the consequences which would flow from it; but through [His] love and [His] power, He shall overcome the substance of created nature. For it was necessary, at first, that nature should be exhibited; then, after that, that what was mortal should be conquered and swallowed up by immortality, and the corruptible by incorruptibility, and that man should be made after the image and likeness of God, having received the knowledge of good and evil.

Roberts, A., Donaldson, J., & Coxe, A. C. (1997). The Ante-Nicene Fathers Vol.I : Translations of the writings of the Fathers down to A.D. 325 (522). Oak Harbor: Logos Research Systems.

Footnote 623 states:That is, that man’s human nature should not prevent him from becoming a partaker of the divine.

Roberts, A., Donaldson, J., & Coxe, A. C. (1997). The Ante-Nicene Fathers Vol.I : Translations of the writings of the Fathers down to A.D. 325. Oak Harbor: Logos Research Systems.

This goes to the theoses of 2 Peter 1.4. Hence, any Catholic who understands Athanasius, Aquinas, and Augustine, as well as Irenaeus knows that it is impossible to confound the LDS teaching as being anywhere similiar. I wish some of the footnotes in the NPNF and ANF might link further when such Protestant footnotes lead to similiar quotes within the same. I had to track down a little bit more of my own. However, I find logos to be the best software and am fairly loyal to them.

Anyways, I had to present this here, even though it is a suggestion forum, I wanted to demonstrate the importance of waiting until the other bibliographical works are electronically submitted. Even when there already exists many of the quotes, it takes more digging as I had to look for Irenaeus's quote as was mentioned Protestant commentary in the Athanasius's quote. I think anyone looking into these texts might see the importance of digging deeper when it quotes another source material so as to not assume a preconceived notion of something existing in the text that does not contextually fit. I'd purchase it anyways even if they have few linking quotes.

I wanted to finish with one more thought. Just as the Oxford English Dictionary takes submissions of words to expand their dictionary as time goes on, I'd like to see the logos do something similiar when it comes to linking bibliographical resources that have been previously released. Perhaps there is a way in the future to where Augustine's "Sermon on the Birth of Our Lord" comes out and I want to upload the link to the Aquinas's "Summa Theologica" where it mentions it.... There are soo many books out now on Logos, and I am sure there are many bibliographical sources not linked because they didn't exist yet in Logos. It is just an idea to play with in the future for maybe a Logos 5 or 6. Let some of us do the legwork, just get some editors to ensure accuracy of our submissions from what is already produced and have minor upgrades to reflect easier linking to other logos works.

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/221057#Comment_221057

knows that it is impossible to confound the LDS teaching as being anywhere similiar.

I agree - I was trying to point out that the use of "a god" rather than "God" moved the phrase into LDS rather than Catholic theology. The St. Aquinas, O.P. reference was a subtle move towards the Byzantine understanding of theosis and as an opportunity to recommend McGinn's work (of which I am quite fond).

You've done a very good job of explaining the Western understanding. I appreciate it.

fgh

the two volume series on 2nd Vatican Council documents by Austin Flannery

This was the version of V II that I had hoped Logos would publish. But I guess it's not too late yet...

The Catechism I've probably voted for half a dozen times already. [:)]

(And, yes, I want the Councils (and papal encyclicals) as well. I suggest Norman Tanner: Decrees of the Ecumenical Councils, which has both English and original languages. If only it wasn't so expensive!)

judnowell

I would love to see this as well.

fgh

Another good Catholic reference would be the two volume series on 2nd Vatican Council documents by Austin Flannery.

Now on prepub: Vatican Council II: The Conciliar and Post Conciliar Documents (2 vols.).