Does anyone know how I exclude the pronominal suffix from a query for verbs in Logos 4 WHM?
Sorry, I'm not sure what you mean by 'exclude'? Can you give an example?
Like the difference between:
lemma:/[\u05D0][\u05D0-\u05EA][\u05D0-\u05EA]/ @ WestMorph [=v??????+S???E?J?C?V?]
and
lemma:/[\u05D0][\u05D0-\u05EA][\u05D0-\u05EA]/ @ WestMorph v*
in Logos 3
The default in Logos 3 was not to include forms like אכלתהו but you could add them to the search with +S???E?J?C?V?
The default in Logos 4 is to include these forms. But how can I leave them out if I so wish?
David, if I understand your question correctly you want to search for something without a pronominal suffix, right?
This search string seemed to work for me lemma:אכל ANDNOT lemma:אכל@v??????+S[123]
I think you can use datatypes to do this. So there's a difference between <lls-morph+x-arc ~ v??????+S???E?I??V?> and <lls-morph+x-arc ~ v??????>. If you need to include the verb itself in the search, you use the syntax
verb ANDEQUALS <lls-morph+x-arc ~ v??????>
David, if I understand your question correctly you want to search for something without a pronominal suffix, right? This search string seemed to work for me lemma:אכל ANDNOT lemma:אכל@v??????+S[123]
Thanks Kevin I hadn't thought of that.
I used lemma:א*@v ANDNOT lemma:א*@v??????+S[123]
The problem with this search lies in places like Gen 37:20 where one verb has a pronominal suffix and the other does not. Is there a way to overcome this?
That wouldn't work, I'm afraid (that was my first attempt too). The ANDNOT simply requires the two verbs don't appear in the same verse, which is not what you want. Theoretically there could be a situation where, in one verse, the verb occurs once with a pronominal suffix and once without. This syntax would incorrectly exclude this result.
The correct syntax would need to be lemma:אכל NOTEQUALS lemma:אכל@v??????+S[123], but NOTEQUALS is not supported in search that use the @ symbol, which is why I suggested datatypes.
I think you can use datatypes to do this. So there's a difference between <lls-morph+x-arc ~ v??????+S???E?I??V?> and <lls-morph+x-arc ~ v??????>. If you need to include the verb itself in the search, you use the syntax verb ANDEQUALS <lls-morph+x-arc ~ v??????>
Thanks Mark but in sooth I didn't comprehend anything you wrote...
Sorry, I'll try again (that's what comes of rushing). There were multiple problems with what I posted (not least that I was using Aramaic morphology). For the reasons given above, we need to use the NOTEQUALS operator, which prevents us from using the @ syntax.
In morph searching, @v??????+S[123] is identical to <lls-morph+he ~ v??????+S[123]??E?I??V?> - it's just two different ways of writing the same thing. But doing it this way allows us to use the NOTEQUALS operator. This first method is a just convenient way of writing the second method, I guess Logos internally translates the first into the second.
Likewise @v is identical to <lls-morph+he ~ v??????+S???E?I??V?>. Put the two together, and you get
<lls-morph+he ~ v??????+S???E?I??V?> NOTEQUALS <lls-morph+he ~ v??????+S[123]??E?I??V?>, which gives you what you want - verbs without the pronomial suffix.
However, I thought that this could just be shortened to <lls-morph+he ~ v??????>, but on reflection realise that this also excludes verbs with specific ending types and so on, so the correct syntax is as stated above.
If you want to search for specific verbs rather than every verb, then using your example above, and assuming you're in a morph search, it is:
(lemma:א* ANDEQUALS <lls-morph+he ~ v??????+S???E?I??V?>) NOTEQUALS <lls-morph+he ~ v??????+S[123]??E?I??V?>
If you were in a Bible search it would be
(<lemma ~ lls/he/א*> ANDEQUALS <lls-morph+he ~ v??????+S???E?I??V?>) NOTEQUALS <lls-morph+he ~ v??????+S[123]??E?I??V?>
However, I thought that this could just be shortened to <lls-morph+he ~ v??????>, but on reflection realise that this also excludes verbs with specific ending types and so on, so the correct syntax is as stated above. If you want to search for specific verbs rather than every verb, then using your example above, and assuming you're in a morph search, it is: (lemma:א* ANDEQUALS <lls-morph+he ~ v??????+S???E?I??V?>) NOTEQUALS <lls-morph+he ~ v??????+S[123]??E?I??V?> If you were in a Bible search it would be (<lemma ~ lls/he/א*> ANDEQUALS <lls-morph+he ~ v??????+S???E?I??V?>) NOTEQUALS <lls-morph+he ~ v??????+S[123]??E?I??V?>
Not only did I understand (most of) what you wrote, but it actually works!!!!
Thank you so much!
Not only did I understand (most of) what you wrote, but it actually works!!!! Thank you so much!
Not exactly the simplest syntax, is it? Thankfully Logos will do the conversion from the @ method to the datatype method for you - so long as it's a simple search. You simply type your lemma and morphology into a morph search, and then switch to a bible search. You can delete the parentheses and the [field bible, content] bit.
It will probably make a mess of it if the initial search is complex, so to create the syntax above, I had two search windows open - one to construct the main query, the other to generate my datatype syntax one lemma at a time.
Oh dear. Why don't Logos just add this to the default search options of WHM. It is rather common...
Many thanks and sorry for the bother. I had no idea it would be this complicated.
I keep fooling around with the Bible search and the Morph search tabs. This format translation is neat!
It's fine. It's the standard work-around for combining NOTEQUALS and @ morph searches. Once you know about it, it only takes a few minutes to work out.
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