Another hypothosis for no PBB in present beta
Could it be that they are releasing it as a for-sale extension? This would seem to explain why the present beta was sparse on new features (though I really like the justified text). Their code development resources are hard at work on something that will be released separately from the beta, or PBB will not be released as a beta and will go straight to production. (what, can it be.....get your pitch fork, lets storm Bellingham!). Nothing like a good overreaction to a fact-void conspiracy theory.
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Philip,
I really don't think they're going to do that - and I believe this would be the worst decision they can make. If they did, I'd surely take it as an affront and consider moving over to Mac and Accordance - Logos customers have been more than patient with the way Logos 4 was sold and developed since it has been out (I said it before, I'll say it again: I think Logos is treating their customers as if they were beta testers, and in my opinion they should change this as soon as possible), so I think a working PBB for free would be the least they can do to make amends.
"Mach's wie Gott - werde Mensch!" | theolobias.de
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Philip Spitzer said:
Could it be that they are releasing it as a for-sale extension?
That would be same as v3, so no surprise
Before PBB is released document sharing needs sorted, I suspect this is the reason behind the delay
Bob says PBB is under development, and I believe him..
Never Deprive Anyone of Hope.. It Might Be ALL They Have
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I agreeTheolobias said:I said it before, I'll say it again: I think Logos is treating their customers as if they were beta testers, and in my opinion they should change this as soon as possible
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I suspect, the intervening months aside, that the current beta was a "bone" for us to chew on while the programmers attended Bibletech ([:'(] snif I wanted to go too!). Moreover, justified text was not a feature likely to produce an avalanche of (1) Bugs (2) Complaints (3) New Scenarios (4) Urgent issues that are likely to follow a major feature release like PBB.
I believe whatever the case, that the primary factor is - as Dominic indicates the technical requirements on the backend of Logos' servers as well as on preparedness in the programmers to be available to scramble in case of unforseen disasters.
PBB is going to be a major feature. All hands on deck.
Sarcasm is my love language. Obviously I love you. 0 -
Thomas Black said:
PBB is going to be a major feature. All hands on deck.
to take my post from conspiracy theory to reality, everything that Bob has ever said has indicated that this would be the case. I am confident that whatever Logos produces, and however they package it, PBB is going to be a major addition to Logos.
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Philip Spitzer said:
I am confident that whatever Logos produces, and however they package it, PBB is going to be a major addition to Logos.
Yes, and the beta has the code to handle PBB resources ...
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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Philip Spitzer said:Thomas Black said:
PBB is going to be a major feature. All hands on deck.
to take my post from conspiracy theory to reality, everything that Bob has ever said has indicated that this would be the case. I am confident that whatever Logos produces, and however they package it, PBB is going to be a major addition to Logos.
Wonder about "printing" Logos Wiki as a PBB ? (periodically update resource)
Keep Smiling [:)]
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Wonder about "printing" Logos Wiki as a PBB ? (periodically update resource)
Good idea, KS4J!
"Mach's wie Gott - werde Mensch!" | theolobias.de
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Philip Spitzer said:
Could it be that they are releasing it as a for-sale extension?
Logos makes their money on sale of resources. The software is simply (an important) enabler for that. Even upgrades are paying for a new bundle of resources. The only way Logos would sell a PBB add-on is if you got a zillion resources along with it.
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Dominick Sela said:
Logos makes their money on sale of resources. The software is simply (an important) enabler for that. Even upgrades are paying for a new bundle of resources. The only way Logos would sell a PBB add-on is if you got a zillion resources along with it.
Remember Sermon File Addin for Libronix?
"Mach's wie Gott - werde Mensch!" | theolobias.de
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Thomas Black said:
I suspect, the intervening months aside, that the current beta was a "bone" for us to chew on while the programmers attended Bibletech (
snif I wanted to go too!). Moreover, justified text was not a feature likely to produce an avalanche of (1) Bugs (2) Complaints (3) New Scenarios (4) Urgent issues that are likely to follow a major feature release like PBB.This is a very common thing to do in the software development field.
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DominicM said:
I suspect this is the reason behind the delay
Bob says PBB is under development, and I believe him..
I think there are two other reasons we don't have PBB yet. I mentioned one of them 15 months ago and won't rehash it. The other has to do with Logos 4 being fundamentally different than Libronix. (Copyright issues in "the cloud") Just my uninformed opinions.
I do believe Bob Pritchett meant what he said, when he said it. But alas, even Bob is only human [:'(] and the rest of the world does not always cooperate with our plans and dreams. Case in point: Hebrew Audio Pronunciation Add-in.
At least we know they are still making great advancements on multiple fronts. Now go tinker with that beta.
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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Philip Spitzer said:
Could it be that they are releasing it as a for-sale extension?
I would expect to see a public beta followed by a for-sale extension. Since PBB is a paid extension now, surely this will continue. But they will want to get some good beta testing, so I think a public beta is likely.
Theolobias said:I think a working PBB for free would be the least they can do to make amends.
I don't agree, and would be surprised to see PBB offered for free since it has never been a free product. Logos has made amends for any hiccups by offering a continually improving product.
Dominick Sela said:The only way Logos would sell a PBB add-on is if you got a zillion resources along with it.
But PBB was a paid add-on for Libronix... As was Sermon File. I expect both will still be paid add-ons, but those who have paid for it before will probably not have to pay again (I'm keeping in mind that every major software package out there generally makes you pay for major upgrades, and this will be a major upgrade to PBB and Sermon File), except for ongoing licensing of PBB.
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At best, suggesting there will be an upgrade fee for the L3 → L4 tool is speculation and goes against the track record of the company. I would be way beyond surprised if such were the case.Chris Roberts said:But PBB was a paid add-on for Libronix... As was Sermon File. I expect both will still be paid add-ons, but those who have paid for it before will probably not have to pay again (I'm keeping in mind that every major software package out there generally makes you pay for major upgrades, and this will be a major upgrade to PBB and Sermon File), except for ongoing licensing of PBB.
Sarcasm is my love language. Obviously I love you. 0 -
Chris Roberts said:
Logos has made amends for any hiccups by offering a continually improving product.
Sorry, but that's not quite correct. It only proves what I mentioned before - that Logos partially succeeds in treating their customers as if they were beta testers without them complaining or even noticing it.
Improving one's product is what software developers do for a living. It's what all software developers do, otherwise there wouldn't be no customers buying their product.. When I buy a broken car that's supposed to be new, then getting the car repaired is a case of warranty, not a case of the manufacturer saying "Sorry, this wasn't supposed to happen. Now, out of good will, we're going to pay for the repair."
I'm well aware PBB was not meant to be a default feature for L4, but there have been and still are so many minor and major bugs in L4 from the very beginning, that I think offering PBB for free could be Logos' way of saying thanks to their customers for sticking with their product. I'm not demanding this, I'm just suggesting.
"Mach's wie Gott - werde Mensch!" | theolobias.de
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Thomas Black said:
the current beta was a "bone" for us to chew on while the programmers attended Bibletech
My personal theory is that the current beta lacks new features because the programmers are making changes that are invisible to the user but that will make the next batch of new features possible. This is common practice and is usually built in to the development life cycle in a thread call something like enablement and it is usually necessary so that the developers can be sure that the underlying changes do not adversely impact the general stability of the existing product features before they unleash a whole series of new function. Whilst completely hidden from the user these changes typically add new fields to support databases, display function for new file formats and additional API functions in core libraries. Included in the scope of this type or release is usually a code review for stability and overall performance as well as an effort to streamline the code by removing duplicate functionality that has crept in as developers have rushed to deliver and then stabilise new features. Basically it's a bit like having a health check before moving onto something bigger and more challenging.
From experience programmers hate this phase because they really do enjoy giving new stuff to the beta junkies!
God Bless
Graham
Pastor - NTCOG Basingstoke
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Thomas Black said:
I suspect, the intervening months aside, that the current beta was a "bone" for us to chew on while the programmers attended Bibletech
I was at BibleTech and most of the developers were indeed there, but they all had their laptops and we had internet access in the conference center, and they were all fixing bugs (in PBB most likely!) while listening to the presentations!
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Chris Roberts said:Philip Spitzer said:
Could it be that they are releasing it as a for-sale extension?
I would expect to see a public beta followed by a for-sale extension. Since PBB is a paid extension now, surely this will continue. But they will want to get some good beta testing, so I think a public beta is likely.
Theolobias said:I think a working PBB for free would be the least they can do to make amends.
I don't agree, and would be surprised to see PBB offered for free since it has never been a free product. Logos has made amends for any hiccups by offering a continually improving product.
Dominick Sela said:The only way Logos would sell a PBB add-on is if you got a zillion resources along with it.
But PBB was a paid add-on for Libronix... As was Sermon File. I expect both will still be paid add-ons, but those who have paid for it before will probably not have to pay again (I'm keeping in mind that every major software package out there generally makes you pay for major upgrades, and this will be a major upgrade to PBB and Sermon File), except for ongoing licensing of PBB.
But there are free Libronix features, such as user generated synoptic tables, that are only going to be supported by PBB. I will be very disappointed if there isn't a free version of PBB that doesn't at least support what we could do in Logos 3 years ago for free.
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Remember, Bob mentioned that they were considering a type of App store with PBB. Everyone gets to be an author. With that in mind I would expect for PBB to be free. Logos gets a cut of the cost of the book/magazine etc., and the author takes the rest. Think Amazon Kindle.
Logos would handle the payment etc..
Lets wait and see what comes up of it.
Mission: To serve God as He desires.
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Lynden Williams said:
Remember, Bob mentioned that they were considering a type of App store with PBB. Everyone gets to be an author. With that in mind I would expect for PBB to be free. Logos gets a cut of the cost of the book/magazine etc., and the author takes the rest. Think Amazon Kindle.
I missed that discussion. That would be very interesting indeed!
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But random speculation is rather fun. :-)Lynden Williams said:Lets wait and see what comes up of it.
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Wonder about "printing" Logos Wiki as a PBB ? (periodically update resource)
Do you have any idea how much this confused me - I immediately thought topics.logos.com not the forum wiki. Don't do this to me before I've finished my first cup of coffee.[*-)][C]
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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MJ. Smith said:
Don't do this to me before I've finished my first cup of coffee.
You posted this after NooN! [O]
By noon I have had more than a few cups of coffee. [C] [C] [C] [C] [C] [C] [C] [C] [C] [C] [C] [C] [C] [C] [C] [C] [:|]
I still ask why would Logos make PBB books like the commentaries of Calvin available for free when they can sell you the same set for a few hundred dollars?
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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It requires several cups of coffee for me to remember what I used to know. When we get PBB perhaps I will write what I used to know so that I can read it and get an earlier start.
"For the kingdom of God does not consist in words but in power"
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Jeffrey Glen Jackson said:
But there are free Libronix features, such as user generated synoptic tables, that are only going to be supported by PBB.
I didn't know this. When did Logos announce this?
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Matthew C Jones said:
You posted this after NooN!
When Mom says that the eldest and youngest in the family were extreme night owls, she isn't kidding - don't worry, the middle two are morning larks it not quite so extreme.[;)]
True story: My brother was a research engineer at Techronics. His boss saw him only if Wayne was still at work at 8:00 a.m. He aimed to be at work by 9 or 10 p.m.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Could be wrong but I reckon that PBB is months away rather than days or weeks - why postpone other features until Q1 2012? What requires that kind of development space to be created?
I reckon PBB by end of June. I'll be pleasantly surprised to be wrong (and I'm hoping I am).
I also hope that if it is a paid upgrade that there is a trial period to evaluate it to see if it's worth the rubles.
Cheers
Richard0 -
Richard Lyall said:
I reckon that PBB is months away
Picking up my pitchfork again....ordering plane ticket to Washington state. Do they allow pitchforks on planes now adays?
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Philip Spitzer said:
Do they allow pitchforks on planes now adays?
Do they still allow dogs?
I know they don't allow fireworks.
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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Richard Lyall said:
I also hope that if it is a paid upgrade that there is a trial period to evaluate it to see if it's worth the rubles.
Thomas is probably right, my speculation about this is probably wrong.
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creepy [:S]
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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Richard Lyall said:
Could be wrong but I reckon that PBB is months away rather than days or weeks - why postpone other features until Q1 2012? What requires that kind of development space to be created?
I reckon PBB by end of June. I'll be pleasantly surprised to be wrong (and I'm hoping I am).
Yes, it'll probably be end of June by the time it ships, but in order to ship by then, they will have to start the beta many weeks before. Most beta cycles for major new features have been on the order of 3 months, so I am guessing (hoping/praying) we will see a beta release with PBB in it within this beta cycle (4.3), and sooner rather than later (Beta 2...please, please, please!).
I should have asked for a sneak peak at it while I was at BibleTech (wasn't thinking!). All the devs had their laptops there and were furiously working away on it while listening to the presentations.
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MJ. Smith said:
Apologies, No since I do not know how much this confused you [:^)] (plus cannot guess what words would be appropriate). Hopefully, computer [co] safe from coffee.[C]
While Logos Wiki continues to organically grow online, wonder about value of Logos Wiki (as of some date) being a searchable resource in Logos 4 ?
Keep Smiling [:)]
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While Logos Wiki continues to organically grow online, wonder about value of Logos Wiki (as of some date) being a searchable resource in Logos 4 ?
Yes, I'm sure that would be useful. It would be a lot of work to convert it to a PBB. Supposing PBB compiler takes a Word document (or some such single document format), we'd have to convert the whole thing, including all the hyperlinks, into a single document. I'm guessing it will be hard to find someone to volunteer to create something that will become outdated almost as soon as it's finished. I imagine we'd only want the true documentation pages, anyway, not the bug reports and release notes and such. But even that would be quite a chore to convert. There are also still sections of it that are not written yet (e.g., Sentence Diagrams) and others that are just stubs (e.g., http://wiki.logos.com/Drawing_Mode). We'd probably want to get it to some level of "completeness" before making a PBB of it. But Logos continues to add features, so it'll always lag behind the product somewhat.
Now I know why Logos doesn't like to ship user's manuals with the product anymore!
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MJ. Smith said:Jeffrey Glen Jackson said:
But there are free Libronix features, such as user generated synoptic tables, that are only going to be supported by PBB.
I didn't know this. When did Logos announce this?
I don't know that there was every a formal announcement. I have vague recollections of it being mentioned in passing by Bob, which means I may well have misunderstood. If I misunderstood and PBB is NOT going to support this, then there are features of Logos 3 that are forever gone. I will be greatly disappointed, but that's nothing new for me and Logos 4.
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Jeffrey Glen Jackson said:
I don't know that there was every a formal announcement. I have vague recollections of it being mentioned in passing by Bob, which means I may well have misunderstood. If I misunderstood and PBB is NOT going to support this, then there are features of Logos 3 that are forever gone. I will be greatly disappointed, but that's nothing new for me and Logos 4.
I know there are two things in L3 that Bob mentioned will not be available in L4, at least not in the same way they were in L3. One is the weights and measurements tools. I for one am glad its gone as it gives a false assurance of the comparable weight. The second is the Library research tool that let you search for a books in various libraries around the World. He felt Google not only filled this gap, but did a better job the Logos could do.
I think realistically there may be other features that don't show up in L4. I for one don't mind that as I feel L4 is a vastly superior product because of what it adds that L3 didn't do. I can understand the disappointment of some if they came to rely on a feature that is no longer realistically supported., though.
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