PLEASE VOTE: Comprehensive reworking of NOTES in one or more phases i.e. if you are unhappy with not
Comments
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Actually PBB and SFL have been under development for some time, they're just not ready for beta...just yet. But I expect that to happen any time now since it's scheduled for this quarter AFTER the schedule was reset.Frank Saur said:However getting on the first page means nothing as evidenced by the lack of PBB, Sermon File (which is being mangled from it's original state - really website???)
Well I can't speak for these items since I don't follow them as closely, but I know the current holdover is that you can turn off internet to avoid syncing (agree or not, that's the argument.)Frank Sauer said:and the requests for the ability to choose to not sync personal items and the ability to select what is updated on your system...
Sarcasm is my love language. Obviously I love you. 0 -
Thomas Black said:
Actually PBB and SFL have been under development for some time, they're just not ready for beta...just yet. But I expect that to happen any time now since it's scheduled for this quarter AFTER the schedule was reset.
Yeah I know... However many things have been under development for some time and no fruit yet... Like I said hope it does, but it would be a surprise. As for the Sermon File, it sounds based upon Bob's comments that it is going to be ruined with the Logos website "fetish" Just glad I jumped on the Add-In when it was offered for free and not for the fee it was costing. If we have to rely on the stupid cloud to compile our sermons then Logos really does NOT care about the customers' concerns.
Thomas Black said:Well I can't speak for these items since I don't follow them as closely, but I know the current holdover is that you can turn off internet to avoid syncing (agree or not, that's the argument.)
Yeah again lose functionality or submit to privacy risk! Yet there is no warning about this in the License Agreement IIRC unless updated....
Logos 10 - OpenSuse Tumbleweed, Windows 11, Android 16 & Android 14
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Frank Sauer said:
If we have to rely on the stupid cloud
Sorry, but this is too good to miss. How do I determine if a cloud is smart or stupid? I missed that in school.[:P]
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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tom collinge said:MJ. Smith said:
How do I determine if a cloud is smart or stupid?
This is easy question to answer.
If the cloud is providing rain while you are on a picnic, it is a stupid cloud. If the cloud provides a scenic view, then it is a smart cloud.
I only deal with clouds that score above 115 on the Stanford Benet test. [;)]
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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Adding the votes on all note related changes we are now at approximately 1100 votes.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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MJ. Smith said:Frank Sauer said:
If we have to rely on the stupid cloud
Sorry, but this is too good to miss. How do I determine if a cloud is smart or stupid? I missed that in school.
MJ must be dating herself - the rest of us knew this long ago.
Blessings,
FloydPastor-Patrick.blogspot.com
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Floyd Johnson said:
MJ must be dating herself - the rest of us knew this long ago.
Yup - I'm old enough to have a drum for a keypunch machine on my desk. And my forms rulers are 16 inches (160 characters) long. But I don't think I have a green card for IBM that fits in my pocket anymore or even the yellow Burroughs card. - quick what was the color of the CDC card? I must be getting senile.[:D]
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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MJ. Smith said:
Yup - I'm old enough to have a drum for a keypunch machine on my desk. And my forms rulers are 16 inches (160 characters) long. But I don't think I have a green card for IBM that fits in my pocket anymore or even the yellow Burroughs card. - quick what was the color of the CDC card? I must be getting senile.
Ugh ! I remember keypunching. That was a nightmare, and I'll only be 39 on my next birthday. [A]
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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If this doesn't get the attention it deserves, perhaps someone at Logos should be fired today.
[I]
ASUS ProArt x570s Creator, AMD R9 5950x, HyperX 64gb 3600 RAM, ASUS Strix RTX 2080 ti
"The Unbelievable Work...believe it or not." Little children...Biblical prophecy is not Christianity's friend.
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George Somsel said:
Ugh ! I remember keypunching. That was a nightmare, and I'll only be 39 on my next birthday.
Wonder about child labor conditions ? (keypunching before becoming a teenager seems bit odd).
Seem to remember keypunching predating Logos Bible Software.
Keep Smiling [:)]
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PLEASE vote for http://logos.uservoice.com/forums/42823-logos-bible-software-4/suggestions/1619077-rework-notes-function-in-one-or-multiple-phases now # 10 on front page, only needs 5 more votes to move up another position.
Keep Smiling [:)]
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Wonder about child labor conditions ? (keypunching before becoming a teenager seems bit odd).
I was precocious -- I have a 25 yr old daughter.
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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Good one MJ... lol Stupid cloud =no user control. Smart Cloud =/user control on what resides there without punishment
Logos 10 - OpenSuse Tumbleweed, Windows 11, Android 16 & Android 14
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George Somsel said:
I'll only be 39 on my next birthday.
My Dad only reached 39 (about 59 times) ... as my son approached 39 I got very concerned about MY age. [:S]
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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MJ. Smith said:
as my son approached 39 I got very concerned about MY age.
Perhaps your son is older than you are. [^o)]
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Jack Caviness said:MJ. Smith said:
as my son approached 39 I got very concerned about MY age.
Perhaps your son is older than you are.
HaHa ! That reminds me of a song that was fairly popular when I was a kid called "I'm my own grampa."
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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George Somsel said:
HaHa ! That reminds me of a song that was fairly popular when I was a kid called "I'm my own grampa."
I remember that song, it seems to me that was more than 39 years ago. [^o)]
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Jack Caviness said:
I remember that song, it seems to me that was more than 39 years ago.
It can't have been since I'm not yet 39. [:D]
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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George Somsel said:Jack Caviness said:
I remember that song, it seems to me that was more than 39 years ago.
It can't have been since I'm not yet 39.
Hmm an enigma wrapped in a riddle: From Wikipedia
[quote]"I'm My Own Grandpa" (sometimes rendered as "I'm My Own Grandpaw") is a novelty song written by Dwight Latham and Moe Jaffe, performed by Lonzo and Oscar in 1947
Let's see now. 2011–1947 = 34 Yep, you must have been about 5 when the song first became popular. [*-)]
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Jack Caviness said:George Somsel said:Jack Caviness said:
I remember that song, it seems to me that was more than 39 years ago.
It can't have been since I'm not yet 39.
Hmm an enigma wrapped in a riddle: From Wikipedia
[quote]"I'm My Own Grandpa" (sometimes rendered as "I'm My Own Grandpaw") is a novelty song written by Dwight Latham and Moe Jaffe, performed by Lonzo and Oscar in 1947
Let's see now. 2011–1947 = 34 Yep, you must have been about 5 when the song first became popular.
Ray Stevens did a version of this song. That's how I was introduced to it.
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PLEASE vote for http://logos.uservoice.com/forums/42823-logos-bible-software-4/suggestions/1619077-rework-notes-function-in-one-or-multiple-phases now # 10 on front page, only needs 5 more votes to move up another position.
Keep Smiling
Now # 9, needs 30 more votes to move up to # 6.
Keep Smiling [:)]
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MJ. Smith said:
Yup - I'm old enough to have a drum for a keypunch machine on my desk. And my forms rulers are 16 inches (160 characters) long. But I don't think I have a green card for IBM that fits in my pocket anymore or even the yellow Burroughs card. - quick what was the color of the CDC card? I must be getting senile.
I don't even know what you're talking about :-)
Jacob Hantla
Pastor/Elder, Grace Bible Church
gbcaz.org0 -
Jacob Hantla said:MJ. Smith said:
Yup - I'm old enough to have a drum for a keypunch machine on my desk. And my forms rulers are 16 inches (160 characters) long. But I don't think I have a green card for IBM that fits in my pocket anymore or even the yellow Burroughs card. - quick what was the color of the CDC card? I must be getting senile.
I don't even know what you're talking about :-)
I'll send you a towel so you can dry your ears. [;)]
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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Now at 9th. Only 12 more votes needed for 6th.
Mac Pro (late 2013) OS 12.6.2
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As of right now with 403 votes we're looking at four more votes to bump to 8th place, 8 for seventh and 10 for sixth.
Sarcasm is my love language. Obviously I love you. 0 -
Thomas Black said:
As of right now with 403 votes we're looking at four more votes to bump to 8th place, 8 for seventh and 10 for sixth.
Done! Now it's 24 more for 5th.
Mac Pro (late 2013) OS 12.6.2
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PLEASE vote for http://logos.uservoice.com/forums/42823-logos-bible-software-4/suggestions/1619077-rework-notes-function-in-one-or-multiple-phases now # 10 on front page, only needs 5 more votes to move up another position.
Keep Smiling
Now tied for # 6 (after 3 weeks on User Voice), needs 21 votes to become # 5, needs 55 votes to become # 4, needs 113 votes to become # 3.
Keep Smiling [:)]
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Quite a meteoric rise.
I think it definitely reflects both the primacy many folks attribute to it and perhaps just a bit of the power of lobbying as well.
Sarcasm is my love language. Obviously I love you. 0 -
Thomas Black said:
Quite a meteoric rise.
I think it definitely reflects both the primacy many folks attribute to it and perhaps just a bit of the power of lobbying as well.
Rework notes function - in one or multiple phases is now # 5 (after 22 days of voting), needs 40 more votes to become # 4.
Keep Smiling [:)]
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Still no reply from Logos regarding this thread...good thing I didn't hold my breath. [+o(]
ASUS ProArt x570s Creator, AMD R9 5950x, HyperX 64gb 3600 RAM, ASUS Strix RTX 2080 ti
"The Unbelievable Work...believe it or not." Little children...Biblical prophecy is not Christianity's friend.
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David Paul said:
Still no reply from Logos regarding this thread...good thing I didn't hold my breath.
I'm not sure I would expect a response soon and here's why:
The thread and the issue on uservoice are both asking for a major change of both direction and thought regarding notes. As conceived by the company (and perhaps mostly by Bob) notes are more equivalent to the 1 inch margin at most in a wide margin Bible or perhaps a little post-it note flag stuck between your pages calling out a valuable but inherently brief single line thought. We are not simply asking for features we are asking Logos to re-imagine the entire vision for notes within Logos. We are asking Logos to reverse a trend and thought pattern in notes that spans every previous version of the software (well the ones that had notes at least).
I understand that it takes a five mile window to turn an aircraft carrier. You cannot turn something that massive more quickly by simply giving it a bigger rudder or "spinning the wheel" harder. Brute force doesn't turn an aircraft carrier - it takes a series of calculated maneuvers as well as time and space.
I believe we'll see the same sort of phenomena regarding notes. I can guarantee that personal interaction, this and related threads, and other venues has brought the spectre of change to the eyes of those who make decisions.
But minds are not changed by brute force, it takes calculated maneuvers like this concerted effort, continual gentle pressure as well as a good bit of time and space.
I have seen Logos as a company listen to it's userbase too many times and in too many personal interactions to think for a moment that this is being ignored. I believe instead it is being watched, weighed and considered. I would expect discussions - "what if" scenarios and even some resistance over the course of change. But I do believe that just like that a 1,019 foot (333m) ship displacing 100,000 tons will inevitably complete the turn, so will Logos on Notes.
I await the completion of the maneuver.
Sarcasm is my love language. Obviously I love you. 0 -
Thomas Black said:
I await the completion of the maneuver.
Also wondering about PBB part of maneuver (potential for sharing Notes with other Logos users). Wonder if Logos 4 PBB's can incorporate sentence diagrams plus illustrations and pictures, etc ?
Likewise wonder if PBB development being affected by this thread and issue on uservoice ?
Keep Smiling [:)]
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I believe PBB is currently being seen as an "answer" to much of this. I also believe it's the right answer to a different question.
Sarcasm is my love language. Obviously I love you. 0 -
Thomas Black said:
I understand that it takes a five mile window to turn an aircraft carrier. You cannot turn something that massive more quickly by simply giving it a bigger rudder or "spinning the wheel" harder. Brute force doesn't turn an aircraft carrier - it takes a series of calculated maneuvers as well as time and space.
I believe we'll see the same sort of phenomena regarding notes. I can guarantee that personal interaction, this and related threads, and other venues has brought the spectre of change to the eyes of those who make decisions.
But minds are not changed by brute force, it takes calculated maneuvers like this concerted effort, continual gentle pressure as well as a good bit of time and space.
Perhaps if we used a bigger hammer:? [;)] [6]
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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Thomas Black said:
We are not simply asking for features we are asking Logos to re-imagine the entire vision for notes within Logos
This was brought home to me yesterday when I (re)discovered that notes within the guides did not support links (yes, I know how to fake it out). In my mind a note is a single object - whether attached to a note file, guide or clipping. And a clipping is simply a specialized note. This is so fundamental to my thinking (a user's view of the data) that I keep being surprised that it is not Logos' view.
But I also believe that there is another piece at work. Because we do not have the PBB or the Sermon files, some of us have used notes to fill the gap. That makes the use statistics look like a PBB is an appropriate alternative. In my case, much of what I have in L4 notes does belong in PBB's and semon files. But most things that belong in notes are in L3 cause L4 notes lack the basic functionality I need. A simple example:
I have thousands of such notes which are the building blocks for lectionary based bible studies for the full Sunday and Feast days lectionary cycles - Catholic, Lutheran and Anglican.
What I hoped the handouts would provide but don't mind switching to Word were the notes and questions that I build out of my Logos notes to give out in class:
A sample of an old notes handout.
A sample of an old questions handout.
These are simple, old school HTML documents from my old website. They don't strike me as asking too much from Logos for L4 to store the base information. While I understand the hesitancy of Logos based on the technical issues, I don't know what will make Bob see why the current version is so dissatisfying. But I do believe that the conceptual foundation of notes is currently flawed and I believe Logos listens.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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From an email from Bob:
"... And PBB _is_ underway, so working on notes
A) would delay that and
seems pointless till people get PBB and see
how many of their needs it meets.I'm not ignoring you, but I just have to balance many different projects and
needs,.... We're
not rejecting any particular notes suggestion; we're just not working
on notes right now."I think we should say "fair enough" and let Logos finish the current L4 project - PBB's. We know that it is a major project that would eat up most of the L4 PC development team. All we could get now is a "planned" - probably without a date - and we do know that Bob has noted the support for a revision of the notes. I'll be satisfied with a "planned" after the delivery of PBB's. From my own usage, I do agree that the PBB will supplant some of my current use of notes but none of my intended use of notes.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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[Y]MJ. Smith said:From an email from Bob:
"... And PBB _is_ underway, so working on notes
A) would delay that and seems pointless till people get PBB and see
how many of their needs it meets.I'm not ignoring you, but I just have to balance many different projects and
needs,.... We're
not rejecting any particular notes suggestion; we're just not working
on notes right now."I think we should say "fair enough" and let Logos finish the current L4 project - PBB's. We know that it is a major project that would eat up most of the L4 PC development team. All we could get now is a "planned" - probably without a date - and we do know that Bob has noted the support for a revision of the notes. I'll be satisfied with a "planned" after the delivery of PBB's. From my own usage, I do agree that the PBB will supplant some of my current use of notes but none of my intended use of notes.
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MJ. Smith said:
I think we should say "fair enough" and let Logos finish the current L4 project - PBB's. We know that it is a major project that would eat up most of the L4 PC development team. All we could get now is a "planned" - probably without a date - and we do know that Bob has noted the support for a revision of the notes.
I'm glad to see this MJ.
Nice avatar revision.
Sarcasm is my love language. Obviously I love you. 0 -
MJ. Smith said:
I think we should say "fair enough" and let Logos finish the current L4 project - PBB's.
Seems like a good plan.
See the change in your avatar. Have you been to the Fountain of Youth?
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Jack Caviness said:
See the change in your avatar. Have you been to the Fountain of Youth?
She's always been a lovely young lady just as I'm going to be 39 on my next birthday. You wouldn't care to deny that, would you?
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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Jack Caviness said:
Have you been to the Fountain of Youth?
Yup [:D] Now if my grandson would quit trying to catch up. [;)]
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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George Somsel said:
She's always been a lovely young lady just as I'm going to be 39 on my next birthday. You wouldn't care to deny that, would you?
No, I would never deny that Martha was a lovely young lady.
As to George being 39, I plead the Fifth (Amendment to they US Constitution, not the bottle of alcoholic beverage). [8-|]
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MJ. Smith said:
From an email from Bob:
"... And PBB _is_ underway, so working on notes
A) would delay that and seems pointless till people get PBB and see
how many of their needs it meets.I'm not ignoring you, but I just have to balance many different projects and
needs,.... We're
not rejecting any particular notes suggestion; we're just not working
on notes right now."I think we should say "fair enough" and let Logos finish the current L4 project - PBB's. We know that it is a major project that would eat up most of the L4 PC development team. All we could get now is a "planned" - probably without a date - and we do know that Bob has noted the support for a revision of the notes. I'll be satisfied with a "planned" after the delivery of PBB's. From my own usage, I do agree that the PBB will supplant some of my current use of notes but none of my intended use of notes.
Likewise wonder how much can be accomplished with Logos 4 PBB's, wonder about potential for inductive Bible study handouts, tables, illustrations, etc.
Also wonder about PBB ease of use and cost.
Rework notes function - in one or multiple phases now needs 13 more votes to become # 4 (followed by 61 additional votes to become # 3).
By the way, avatar change looks good [:D]
Keep Smiling [:)]
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MJ. Smith said:Email from Bob said: seems pointless till people get PBB and see
how many of their needs it meets.I have been thinking about this, and I am wondering about our current notes. Is there going to be a tool to convert our current notes to a PBB? I know that I am not going to convert my current note files to a PBB because it will be too much work. Again, this is just me speaking, but the odds of me changing the way that I work is very slim. Because I have items in my note files, and I have to look there for my research; I am not going to add another place (PBB's) to my to-do list in my research.
I hope PBB's will help some people, but I have a gut feeling that the cry for a complete revision of the note system will note die once PBB is released. Because of this, I hope that the people who have designed PBB was/is thinking about the re-usability of PBB's code so that most of it can be used for the revision of notes.
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I just gave this suggestion thread three votes. Can you tell me what PBB means?
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Tim Finlay said:
I just gave this suggestion thread three votes. Can you tell me what PBB means?
Umm, "Peanut butter and bacon"? [6] No, Personal Book Builder.
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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Tim Finlay said:
I just gave this suggestion thread three votes. Can you tell me what PBB means?
PBB = Personal Book Builder.
Libronix 3 had PBB extra cost option for compiling documents into Libronix book format => http://www.logos.com/support/pbb
Thomas Black, a Logos Forum MVP, has a Libronix PBB repository at his web site => http://www.stilltruth.com/page/libronix_pbb_files that provided partial motivation to install Libronix 3.0g on Windows 7 (peacefully coexist with Logos 4), now can read old PBB's. Other motivator was Notes since Libronix 3 has more Notes capabilities than Logos 4. If create Notes in Libronix 3, can import to Logos 4. If not like in Logos 4, can delete, then reimport.
#1 Logos Bible Software 4 User Voice item is PBB, which has a status "well underway..."
Keep Smiling [:)]
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Likewise wonder how much can be accomplished with Logos 4 PBB's, wonder about potential for inductive Bible study handouts, tables, illustrations, etc
We really don't know much about the PBB. I think that Bob expects PBBs to solve some of the note problems. Knowing some personal communications with Bob (other than my own) I see why he believes it. I simply disagree - primarily because notes are so far from ideal that Logos can't easily see how people want to use them. As I see the navigational problems with Notes, I would expect PBB's to make the problem worse rather than being a solution. But I'm not privy to their data model - if they have finally recognized that user text is simply specialized into notes, sermons, PBB's and simply coded for inheritance rules I may be leaping so high for joy that I hit my head on the ceiling. Ouch.[:'(]
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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said:
