PRA's for L4?
Gentlemen?
Can anyone help me figure out how to configure PRA's for Logos4 or let me know if it is still available? Following an MP seminar PRA's quickly became one of my favorite features in Logos as scrolling through grouped commentaries or Bible dictionaries saved a ton of time and provided a wealth of information quickly. Do PRA's still exist? If not, is there some other way in which this is accomplished or is it at least being developed for 4? Thanks in advance for the insight.
Josh
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What are PRAs? Sorry for my ignorance.
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Josh Wilson said:
Can anyone help me figure out how to configure PRA's for Logos4 or let me know if it is still available?
What's a PRA?
Of course you can PRAY even without Logos, and whatever a PRA is, I'm sure a PRAYER is better.
Let me guess, that you're talking about Resource Associations. These are no longer supported in L4. But you can get close by prioritizing resources, and by creating collections. They don't have the ability to scroll through in a circular way (I miss that), but it's as close as we can get for now.
Help links: WIKI; Logos 6 FAQ. (Phil. 2:14, NIV)
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Parallel Resource Associations. It was a semi-advanced user feature, but was uber helpful. You grouped certain "PRA" that were organized in similar fashion (e.g. vss or topics), then you could simply use the arrow key to move from BKC to NAC to NIGTC on John 1:1 or you could flip through all your Bible Dictionaries to see what they said about "Abraham" etc.
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I think he means parallell resource association, if so Logos handles that internally now and does a great job.
Alt + arrow now I believe
Never Deprive Anyone of Hope.. It Might Be ALL They Have
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Bummer.. :-( Yeah, I figured the other stuff out already, but I am missing the "circular" feature of 3.0. Here's hoping Logos brings in back.
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Josh Wilson said:
Parallel Resource Associations
Okay. Just couldn't remember what the "P" was for. Now I remember. I used them too.
Once again, the closest we can get in L4 is with Prioritizing resources. But when you do it, group similar things together. I put all my preferred English Bibles first, then my preferred Spanish Bibles, then my preferred original language Bibles, then my 'heavy-hitter' commentaries, then some Study-bibles, then a couple of Dictionaries (I should probably add some Bible dictionaries & encyclopedias in there too.
Logos4 will scroll like with like, but uses it's own order, unless you change it by prioritizing your preferred works. Keeping like with like, helps know what you've got and so add what you're missing later.
Help links: WIKI; Logos 6 FAQ. (Phil. 2:14, NIV)
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@Dominic. Ha! Thank you. Alt + arrow it is!
A couple quick follow up questions.
1. Is there a comprehensive list of shortcuts/hotkeys somewhere?
2. Is there a way to limit what resources it "circles through" or manually add/remove resources to the path as with PRAs via collections or something? Right now it is taking me to a bunch of resources I really don't want to look at. The blessings and curses of a huge Logos library :-)
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Yeah Josh, this function is missed
They are partially supported. You can Prioritize resources (In the Library right click on a resource or drag and drop to the Prioritize list [Prioritize list is found in the upper right part of the Library window]) and these will allow that function to partially work. Whatever resources you put in the prioritize list (ordered from top to bottom - top is first in your association) for a particular datatype then those will scroll with the right/left arrow key, but as you know they will not loop (or they are not circular). When you when you start right clicking and come to the resource that is the last one on your Prioritize list then it will begin going through remaining "like resources" in your library. The only way to get back to the beginning is to left arrow click and backtrack through the list. This is where limiting the list and looping is greatly missed. Also, the prioritize list will get filled with all kinds of different resources so you might try to order like datatypes together (drag and drop) so that you can keep track of which ones you have added.
There are a few advanced settings (in the prioritize list right click on the resource and it will give you some options) that can help control which resources scroll and which don't (a little) but there is still much limitation in the current implementation.
There is always hope that this additional function will be added back into the program. Bob (Logos) does think through and weigh things that we do not see, and he (and the programming team) does listen and is very willing to consider these options. It is a good thing to let them know how you use it, what you miss, and the value you place on that particular tool.
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Thanks for the info. The prioritizing is at least a strong step in the right direction. I guess I am just going to end up prioritizing a lot more books than I had initially thought. I have noticed Logos' willingness to help. I actually put all my eggs in one basket early deciding not to purchase some other platforms as well due to this and Logos commitment to continue improving their product. I am feeling a bit vindicated with the release of L4.. thanks for the many improvements, Logos.
Bob, this is at least one user who would greatly appreciate the "looping/circular" option and any added ability to customize which resources are related to what other resources in a future update... I had a LOT of PRA's and used the feature constantly.
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I could not find one. I prioritized my commentaries, leaving out the ones I do not use that often, and it still cycles them through. Also, in L3 you could go from your last commentary back to your first commentary when you got to the end of your list. Not in L4, you have to backtrack to get back to your first prioritized commentary.
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PRA's were more popular than we thought, and we see the advantage in some cases. We're looking at how to bring this back in an even better -- and less confusing to people who didn't attend an MP seminar -- way.
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Bob Pritchett said:
PRA's were more popular than we thought, and we see the advantage in some cases. We're looking at how to bring this back in an even better -- and less confusing to people who didn't attend an MP seminar -- way.
Bob. Thanks for listening.
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Bob,
Thanks for the reassuring words of bringing back PRA in an even better way.[:)]
JK
MacBookPro Retina 15" Late 2013 2.6GHz RAM:16GB SSD:500GB macOS Sierra 10.12.3 | iPhone 7 Plus iOS 10.2.1
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Josh Wilson said:
@Dominic. Ha! Thank you. Alt + arrow it is!
For me it works as it was in v3, that is just an arrow. May be it is my Czech keyboard, I don't know.
Bohuslav
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Bob Pritchett said:
PRA's were more popular than we thought, and we see the advantage in some cases. We're looking at how to bring this back in an even better -- and less confusing to people who didn't attend an MP seminar -- way.
Thank you Bob. I am constantly amazed by your very flexible and willing attitude.
Bohuslav
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Bob Pritchett said:
PRA's were more popular than we thought, and we see the advantage in some cases.
Great, Great!!
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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Bob Pritchett said:
PRA's were more popular than we thought, and we see the advantage in some cases. We're looking at how to bring this back in an even better -- and less confusing to people who didn't attend an MP seminar -- way.
Fantastic! I use PRAs extensively in L3 and complained that they were missing from the Mac 1.2. PLEASE put them into L4. [:'(]
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I also used PRA's extensively and am amazed to read that they are gone. It is true, however, that it was often confusing as to how to set things up. Even with a Proctor manual and quickfiles it was still kind of a mixed bag.
It it comes back, yep, make it way simplier for people like me!
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Agree with sentiments expressed - PRA's are fundamental to the way I use Logos 3.
Andrew
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Bob Pritchett said:
PRA's were more popular than we thought, and we see the advantage in some cases. We're looking at how to bring this back in an even better -- and less confusing to people who didn't attend an MP seminar -- way.
Yahoo! Thanks, Bob!
Charlene
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Bob Pritchett said:
PRA's were more popular than we thought, and we see the advantage in some cases. We're looking at how to bring this back in an even better -- and less confusing to people who didn't attend an MP seminar -- way.
Thanks Bob, that's good to hear. As an alumni of Morris's seminars, I made heavy use of resource associations and was really disheartened during the beta to see them gone, and now am very glad to hear that this functionality is coming back.
AKA WillyBurger
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I second that emotion!
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I'm also happy to hear they're going to be included in Logos 4. I use PRAs constantly in 3.
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Bob Pritchett said:
PRA's were more popular than we thought, and we see the advantage in some cases. We're looking at how to bring this back in an even better -- and less confusing to people who didn't attend an MP seminar -- way.
Normally, I don't care to add another comment just to agree with all the other posts, but I feel that the return of PRAs is that important. So, I will add my voice to the chorus: THANK YOU, BOB! [Y]
Jack
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Bob Pritchett said:
RA's were more popular than we thought, and we see the advantage in some cases. We're looking at how to bring this back in an even better -- and less confusing to people who didn't attend an MP seminar -- way.
Glad to hear this. Can I suggest you integrate it with the collections feature? What would be useful would be a drop-down when reading the resource that allowed as to use Logos' auto PRA, or one of our own collections as the PRA. This would solve the great problem with v3 which was that a book couldn't be in two PRA's at the same time (well it could, but Logos would get confused and potentially jump to the wrong resources).
This is my personal Faithlife account. On 1 March 2022, I started working for Faithlife, and have a new 'official' user account. Posts on this account shouldn't be taken as official Faithlife views!
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Would it be possible to develop different Priorities in your Library? You could have your Bible Priorites, Commentary Priorities, Bible Dictionary Priorities, Language Priorities, and Custom Priorities acting as PRA's. Each Prioriity could be customized with an option to turn them off or on. Just an idea for development.
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I attended a Morris Proctor seminar back in 2005 and PRA's were a big part of how I used Logos. I especially appreciated them for commentaries. However, they could be confusing since commentaries sets would join books together and every set had different division. One volume commentaries had to have a totally different approach. There was one Bible Exposition book commentary that I had to leave out completely as combined a historical book with prophetical books. To switch passages, I had to be in a commentary set that covered both passages or I couldn't make the jump. Yet, I made PRA's work for me. I would add my voice to those liking to see PRA's continue in some format, less confusing would be better.
It would be nice to be able to set PRA's (or favorites) for each Bible book individually.
Others have mentioned keylinks. I used them, but found them confusing in bringing up Greek books. The Greek books were not keylinked the same way and it is hard to bring up the right book. I think that Greek would as well be better served by favorites, rather than keylinks.
I would like the concept of PRA's and Keylink to come back, but in a new and better format.
Wayne
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PRA's are important to me as well. One way to group them might be with tags.
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I would like to put a verse in the passage guide and have Logos 4 open up to my favorite commentary for that Bible book, whether it be a one volume Bible commentary set or a individual book commentary. There is no commentary set that is good in all books. It would be nice to be able to set our own preferences for each Bible book, for biblical languages, dictionaries, etc. I think that this would be a significant improvement over the pra's from L3.
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Please bring them back. Thank you!
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James Brown said:
You only need to press the arrow key. I have NAC open and when I press arrow it goes to other commentaries.
Dr. Kevin Purcell, Director of Missions
Brushy Mountain Baptist Association0 -
I am gratified to hear that PRA's are being considered for L4. While I'm not a heavy L3 user like many on this forum, I consider PRA's one of the best ways to direct and organize my Bible research. Not all books are equally valuable (and each of us have our own priority lists). This along with customizable right-click keylinks are critical to those of us who wish to organize our library to meet our research requirements. I've not been to any L3 training and I figured this stuff out without too much difficulty, but I agree that making it easier to use is a good idea. Just don't make it simpler; we need the power we know in L3 and the improved automation and consistency we're seeing in L4.
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Bob Pritchett said:
PRA's were more popular than we thought, and we see the advantage in some cases. We're looking at how to bring this back in an even better -- and less confusing to people who didn't attend an MP seminar -- way.
Bob,
Thank you for listening and considering how to bring this function back! It is a great tool that you developed before, and has a huge benefit when prioritizing which resources I like to use for specific studies (books and topics). I look forward to what you develop!
mike
Windows 7, Nexus 7
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PRAs were invaluable in my study as well. Thank you for trying to make them even better.
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Bob Pritchett said:
PRA's were more popular than we thought, and we see the advantage in some cases. We're looking at how to bring this back in an even better -- and less confusing to people who didn't attend an MP seminar -- way.
Wow! I apparently totally missed this announcment.
+++++++1 [Y]
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Mark Barnes said:
Can I suggest you integrate it with the collections feature? What would be useful would be a drop-down when reading the resource that allowed as to use Logos' auto PRA, or one of our own collections as the PRA. This would solve the great problem with v3 which was that a book couldn't be in two PRA's at the same time (well it could, but Logos would get confused and potentially jump to the wrong resources).
That's a great suggestion, Mark! I never used PRAs in Logos 3 because I hadn't figured out how to use them until I got so fed up at seeing all the Targumic Fragments all the time and forced myself to learn how to work around that. But by that time, Logos 4 was just around the corner so I didn't ever work through other ways that PRAs might have been useful to me. Now that we can hide resources in L4, I wouldn't need to use them for what I was using them for in L3, but I'm sure there are other purposes and I support those who would like to see them return in some form or other. Knowing they'd be more L4-like in a new implementation, I'm sure I would get to know them and love them.
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Josh Wilson said:
A couple quick follow up questions.
1. Is there a comprehensive list of shortcuts/hotkeys somewhere?
go to help in L4 (F1) and under basics click 'keyboard shortcuts'.
Logos Platinum
Windows 7 - 64 Bit
Lenovo laptop E520 i7-2640M, 2.8GHz 8G Ram, 2G GraphicsAustralia
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Bob Pritchett said:
PRA's were more popular than we thought, and we see the advantage in some cases.
I am very happy about this; PRA's were integral to my use of L3 and I would like more control in some instances over what L4 thinks are parallel
They they were relatively intuitive and self explanatory after somebody explained it.
Jacob Hantla
Pastor/Elder, Grace Bible Church
gbcaz.org0 -
David Gullick said:Josh Wilson said:
A couple quick follow up questions.
1. Is there a comprehensive list of shortcuts/hotkeys somewhere?
go to help in L4 (F1) and under basics click 'keyboard shortcuts'.
You can also find this list on the wiki (and it's been updated there to add something that was forgotten in the Help file):
http://wiki.logos.com/Logos_4_Keyboard_Shortcuts_For_Windows
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What about SERIAL resource associations? I loved having my UBS4 & LXX linked, so when I bounced to the OT it was ready & waiting.
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