Nestle-Aland Greek New Testament - textual apparatus
Overall, I like Logos... but as a seminary student with limited funds, I was very disappointed to discover that the Nestle Aland NT contained in the basic Scholar edition does NOT include the textual apparatus.
That, to me, is akin to selling study Bibles, but ripping out the concordance that comes with it and charging extra for it.
C'mon Logos... really??? A basic apparatus is standard to most Greek NT's. Why make us pay extra to just to be able to have a capability to (at a glance) determine if there are any significant variation in the text? Not saying we should have an exhaustive apparatus necessarily, but couldn't we have at least *something* along the lines of a basic one?
Respectfully,
Stan
Comments
- Sinaiticus
- Vaticanus
- Alexandrinus
- Bezae
- Washingtonianus
- Boernerianus
- GA1141
The new SBL GNT has a basic apparatus, although it is quite different from NA 27's apparatus. You can get it for free: http://www.logos.com/product/8486/the-greek-new-testament-sbl-edition if you don't already have it.
If you get the Original Language Library or Scholar's Gold or up you can get Tischendorf's apparatus, old but still useful.
The fact of the matter is that even Bibleworks, renowned for its focus on exegesis, does not offer the NA27 apparatus even as an extra module. Accordance, Logos' chief rival on the Mac side of things, has a CD that one must purchase to get the NA27 and BHS apparatuses, it is similar in scope to the SESB for Logos Users which is slightly more expensive but looks like it has more content.
I share your frustration for having a text-only NA 27 but there's not much that can be done.
Prov. 15:23
It is true that the SBL has an apparatus, but as you mentioned it is not a critical apparatus which in my opinion defeats the purpose, at least for what I am trying to accomplish with it. BibleWorks does have Tischendorf in the program and not as an add in module which is nice, I personally have come to prefer Tischendorf's over NA 27. That being said Bibleworks has also been very transparent in their dealings and attempts to get the NA 27 apparatus and failure to do so over the German Bible Society unwillingness to come down in price. That being said Bibleworks has also been working on (for quite some time but many of the same frustrations follow with manuscripts and copyright I am afraid) a tool that would help a person to create their own apparatus filled with the variants of the text of their choosing. I feel that this will probably be awhile before we see this. In the meantime, I am satisfied with Logos and their inclusion of NA 27's apparatus and use it as such.
That being said Bibleworks has also been very transparent in their dealings and attempts to get the NA 27 apparatus and failure to do so over the German Bible Society unwillingness to come down in price. That being said Bibleworks has also been working on (for quite some time but many of the same frustrations follow with manuscripts and copyright I am afraid) a tool that would help a person to create their own apparatus filled with the variants of the text of their choosing.
This is the logical conclusion of electronic Biblical scholarship and projects like Dan Wallace's Center for the Study of New Testament Manuscripts. I expect that within the not so distant future we will be able to acquire images/transcriptions of almost every extant Greek manuscript with the ability to have a custom or exhaustive apparatus. Such a product would not be limited by the space constraints of a print volume and hopefully will allow for better textual critical deliberations and discussions.
Prov. 15:23
... I expect that within the not so distant future we will be able to acquire images/transcriptions of almost every extant Greek manuscript with the ability to have a custom or exhaustive apparatus....
This already being done to some extent in other software (and beautifully so!).
However, it will be interesting to see what Logos, does or what it will offer in the future.
חַפְּשׂוּ בַּתּוֹרָה הֵיטֵב וְאַל תִּסְתַּמְּכוּ עַל דְּבָרַי
...The fact of the matter is that even Bibleworks, renowned for its focus on exegesis, does not offer the NA27 apparatus even as an extra module. ..
To be fair to Bibleworks it should also be mention that...
As, of BibleWorks version 9 the CNTTS apparatus database is included in the base package. It's basepackage also offers the complete NT digital image sets of the following manuscripts(from Dan Wallace's Center for the Study of New Testament Manuscripts) in their entirety:
Having said that I think the OP would be better served with the full SESB 3.0/Libronix (only 324.95USD) rather than Logos Scholars(629.95USD) since what the OP really wants (at this time) it just the Greek NT with the Apparatus. However, if the OP is a seminary student the OP may need the bigger library provided by Logos4 Scholar package.
חַפְּשׂוּ בַּתּוֹרָה הֵיטֵב וְאַל תִּסְתַּמְּכוּ עַל דְּבָרַי
BK ... did you mean http://www.logos.com/product/8484/stuttgart-electronic-study-bible ($180) which has all the apparatus needed?
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
BK ... did you mean http://www.logos.com/product/8484/stuttgart-electronic-study-bible ($180) which has all the apparatus needed?
חַפְּשׂוּ בַּתּוֹרָה הֵיטֵב וְאַל תִּסְתַּמְּכוּ עַל דְּבָרַי
Respectfully, I disagree that the publisher is the cause of the OP's disappointment.
I think is is fair for customers to assume that the Logos product faithfully reproduces the text, unless told otherwise. Besides this being a general principle of commercial law, it is congruent with Logos' statement that they will not alter or correct files received from the publisher.
As a 2-month user I have found a few differences from the book text and the Logos resource I received. This occurred in my base packages--OLL and Catholic Scholars--as well as collections and individual resources. Searching on the forums, I have found others with similar complaints.
In my opinion, the Logos website product descriptions (or PDF charts) too often fail to identify when Logos resources do not include all the content of the original texts (with exceptions for Logos functionality such as auto TOCs). I presume Logos knows (or could know) what was in the original text, what is in the Logos product, and what is in the advertising description; I conclude that Logos is the source of the discrepancies.
Honestly, I am troubled by this issue and wonder if I am correct. I am preparing a list of what I (or other posters) consider differences. If posters on this thread would be so kind, if I post the list on this thread, would you review it and make sure I am not too off base?
Has anyone else noted such discrepancies?
Dennis, you're talking about the elephant in the room.
Take for example Aland's Harmony, which I bought and then got a refund on.
My big issue is the copy writers don't really have much familiarity with the products and largely just copy from the publisher, often without regard to the Logos version. Hopefully the recent 'review' section will bring in some expertise.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
Yes, I was upset that Aland's Synopsis and UBS4 did not indicate what was omitted from the print versions, among other discrepancies.
Yes, I was upset that Aland's Synopsis and UBS4 did not indicate what was omitted from the print versions, among other discrepancies.
The Byzantine Text omits introductory material and essays, and I agree that the electronic product should match the print version, unless it specifically states otherwise.
...In my opinion, the Logos website product descriptions (or PDF charts)
too often fail to identify when Logos resources do not include all the
content of the original texts (with exceptions for Logos functionality
such as auto TOCs). I presume Logos knows (or could know) what was in
the original text, what is in the Logos product, and what is in the
advertising description; I conclude that Logos is the source of the
discrepancies...
I agree with you.
And, it is true that Logos Base Product descriptions do not inform
potential customers that the apparatuses for the Geek and Hebrew texts
are not included with the edition of BHS and the NA27 in their
base-packages but, they do provide this disclaimer on the product page for the Nestle-Aland 27th Edition Greek New Testament (Morphological Edition)
[quote]***Due to licensing restrictions, the BHS, UBS, and NA27 do not include
critical apparatuses. The apparatuses are included separately in the Stuttgart Electronic Study Bible (SESB).
And, the product page for the:
Biblia Hebraica Stuttgartensia (BHS Hebrew): With Westminster 4.2 Morphology contains the following note
[quote]Due to licensing restrictions, the BHS does not include critical apparatuses. The apparatuses are included separately in the Stuttgart Electronic Study Bible (SESB).
Unfortunately, many never see these disclaimers because the NA27 and the BHS are probably most often acquired through the purchase of a Base Product which do not carry similar disclaimers.
חַפְּשׂוּ בַּתּוֹרָה הֵיטֵב וְאַל תִּסְתַּמְּכוּ עַל דְּבָרַי
[Corrected in response to NewbieMick--I haven't had coffee this a.m.] I think the USB4 apparatus is not available even by add-on.
EDIT:
Yes. And I think the UBS4 is only available through a base package.
No, there used to be a CD-ROM - ah, here: http://www.logos.com/product/7839/ubs-4-westcott-hort-with-swanson-morphological-analysis and besides SESB I think there was at least a third-party package from AMG that included it as well, IIRC.
/ EDIT
[Corrected--haven't had coffee this a.m.] I think the USB4 apparatus is not available even by add-on.
No idea about USB4 apparatus apart from SESB.
Have joy in the Lord! 
Hi Stan
I recall the same frustration when I purchased Scholars, and discovered the critical apparatus was not included.
What I ended up doing was adding the Stuttgart Electronic Study Bible (SESB) for Logos Users.
In the end, I guess it has to do with what can and can't be included for the price, given the partnerships with the copyright holders.
So even if you have all the resources in SESB aside from the apparatuses, you have to buy the entire SESB just to add the apparatuses?
So even if you have all the resources in SESB aside from the apparatuses, you have to buy the entire SESB just to add the apparatuses?
Yes, that is correct if you are looking for the apparatuses for the BHS, BHQ, NA27, and USB4. I am sure Logos would offer these separately or in a base package if the publisher allowed, but as it is the publisher requires the purchase of one of two SESB packages for apparatuses. The cheapest option is $179.95 http://www.logos.com/product/8484/stuttgart-electronic-study-bible.
Edit: Post no longer relevant.
Hi Stanley and welcome to the forum! Regarding your frustration, you probably should re-direct it to the NA27 publisher, who carefully 'manages' what goes with what. If you search 'SESB' on Logos, you'll see (a) quite a bit of animated discussion and (b) how the resource groups are packaged by the publisher. You almost have to buy the most expensive one to get what you want.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
Thanks.
Put another way: I would GLADLY trade about 70% of the e-books I have in Logos (most of which have a "reformed" theological bent, which I will probably rarely use, as I am a Lutheran) just to have an apparatus in Greek and Hebrew.