Revelation Commentaries - this one will need lots of new bidders

As many of you know, the set of Revelation commentaries has been 'stuck' for a long time, with a lower and higher peak. The higher peak is set at a price which is not much less than fully published commentaries sets are going for (and actually about the same if one has the academic discount), and therefore it is not too surprising that no one has jumped on the higher peak for a while. However, the higher peak appears to be discouraging bids at the lower peak, as people see the higher price and move on.

The book of Revelation is a unique book in the NT, and I personally would love to see this set come into production, as I'm sure many others would. For those of you who have not bid, but yet would like to see this set, the only way forward is for enough bidders to go in at the lower bidding peak until it dislodges the higher peak.

In my opinion, this set is worth it just for Elliot alone, which was THE definitive historicist commentary back when historicism was still a popular hermeneutical option among Protestants.

Hort's work is still very important, especially on the question of the dating of Revelation (Hort defends the early date).

The Antichrist Legend by Bousset is the third reason I personally would love to see this set in publication. Bousset traces the antichrist motif all the way back to ancient Mesopotamia.

Also worthy of note is William Kelly's work. Kelly was a contemporary of Darby, whom he follows in the main contours of this classic dispensational work written from a Plymouth Brethren perspective. Seiss was also a contemporary of Darby and was influenced by the Plymouth Brethren. He wrote his dispensational commentary as a Lutheran.

http://www.logos.com/product/8522/classic-commentaries-and-studies-on-revelation

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Hapax Legomena

O.K., you convinced me, I bid $50.00. I am one of those who held off from the beginning because of the insanely high suggested price for public domain works.

Friedrich

In my opinion, this set is worth it just for Elliot alone, which was THE definitive historicist commentary back when historicism was still a popular hermeneutical option among Protestants.

Hort's work is still very important, especially on the question of the dating of Revelation (Hort defends the early date).

The Antichrist Legend by Bousset is the third reason I personally would love to see this set in publication. Bousset traces the antichrist motif all the way back to ancient Mesopotamia.

Also worthy of note is William Kelly's work. Kelly was a contemporary of Darby, whom he follows in the main contours of this classic dispensational work written from a Plymouth Brethren perspective. Seiss was also a contemporary of Darby and was influenced by the Plymouth Brethren. He wrote his dispensational commentary as a Lutheran.

Dean, this was a very helpful post. I have already bid (at $50!), but now I know a bit more about what I bid on. I sure hope to get it for this. I'm afraid I won't go 160.

Paul Chatfield

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/327729#Comment_327729

I agree - well said Dean. This type of info is helpful in general in understanding how good the classic commentary sets are. I've got both Genesis and Galatians though I reckon the Galatians set was better value in the brief look I've had at both. Paul Newsome did a helpful file with commentaries that Spurgeon recommended. If any of you know of other respected thinkers who have reviewed commentaries, it would probably help others put bids in too ...

Bill Anderson

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/327736#Comment_327736

E.W. Hengstenberg's commentary is also in this set. I would love to have it in Logos 4 but at the $50 price point. [:)]

Lynden O. Williams

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/327766#Comment_327766

Bump.

erik sietsema

I am trying to catch all of these sets before they get out of community pricing. I tend to agree that $90 is a little on the pricey side. I initially low balled my bid hoping others would follow. I upped my bid to 50 at your suggestion. Thanks. Erik

Paul N

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/327786#Comment_327786

I'm assuming this of all the Classic Commentary Collections would have a larger group of last minute bidders once the line is crossed. I think it'll end up going for $40.

Evan Boardman

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/327786#Comment_327786

I have James Durham in Hard cover and would love it in Logo's, its a massive 1001 pgs !! 1001 pgs isn't nothing to brag about, but 1001 pgs of Durham is.[:D]

MJD

This is one post of many posts about getting interest drummed up on getting this set published. I am back in at $160 now, I tried the $50 to push awhile back, but I figured if I increase it might go up faster.

I would like to have the complete Classic Commentary series, lets keep pushing.

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/327890#Comment_327890

A $ 160 bid includes lower prices too. Also, community bidding by many users at $ 160 covers over 55 % of estimated production costs. For projected price to drop, need many more new bids by Logos users.

Noticed retail comparison price for print is $ 934.95 so a bid of $ 90 would have a discount over 90 % if enough bids are placed to cover estimated production costs for complete 27 volume set with 12,448 pages. Suspect if all current $ 50 bids were raised to $ 90, projected price would be close to $ 90

Keep Smiling [:)]

Rosie Perera

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/327935#Comment_327935

The bump at $50 is nearing 50%. Usually once a CP title reaches 60% it gains momentum, but only when the price is right. I think the $160 price point is too daunting for people. So let's see if we can get enough more bidders at 50% to raise it to the momentum point and then it will sail over the top in a couple of months. It's been sitting there for way too long. Look at how fast the other classic commentary collections have been climbing up the percentage ladder in comparison.

Fabrice

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/327946#Comment_327946

There is a point here : those who bid $50 won't bid for more, however, those who bid $160 could well bid $50! It's a way to gain momentum. :-)

Mike Childs

You convinced me. I am in at $50.

Dean J

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/328071#Comment_328071

Thanks to all those posters who have jumped on board so that we can try to bump this one up a little. It's weird that there doesn't seem to be any movement on the live progress diagram though. This must be an expensive set to produce. I'm surprised there have been so many bids at $160 - this must be a set many of us really want to see - but ironically, that very desire to see the set has created a high peak which is working against our seeing it.

BriM

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/328080#Comment_328080

Yes, it seems strange, but I suspect those who bid $160 would have a better chance of getting it into production by lowering their bid to $50. Then a lower peak could form and entice new bidders.

BillS

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/328103#Comment_328103

Yes, it seems strange, but I suspect those who bid $160 would have a better chance of getting it into production by lowering their bid to $50. Then a lower peak could form and entice new bidders.

[Y] +1

In at $50. Willing to let it go by if more...

tom

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/327935#Comment_327935

Suspect if all current $ 50 bids were raised to $ 90, projected price would be close to $ 90

Hi KS4J,

To put it in my simply language, this ain't going to happen. I am not going to spend $90 for out of date commentaries. I did bump UP my bid to $50, but I am not sure if the series is worth $50 for me.

Rosie Perera

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/328080#Comment_328080

Thanks to all those posters who have jumped on board so that we can try to bump this one up a little. It's weird that there doesn't seem to be any movement on the live progress diagram though. This must be an expensive set to produce. I'm surprised there have been so many bids at $160 - this must be a set many of us really want to see - but ironically, that very desire to see the set has created a high peak which is working against our seeing it.

I keep waffling on this one. I started in at $160 as there was already a small bump there, and then lowered to $50 when I saw another bump forming there. I leave my bid at 50 most of the time, but when I see the bump at 160 getting to a new milestone I get worried again and bump back up to 160 because I don't want to miss this one. But I'm back down at 50 again. I can't remember if we get an email giving us one last chance when a CP hits 100% if our bid is below the set price. If I knew that for sure, I could rest easy about it.

Evan Boardman

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/328182#Comment_328182

I can't remember if we get an email giving us one last chance when a CP hits 100% if our bid is below the set price. If I knew that for sure, I could rest easy about it.

You will get an e-mail telling you that it made the 100% mark right and bidding will end Friday noon right?

Evan Boardman

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/328192#Comment_328192

Whether you get an e-mail or not you know to check before Friday noon![H]

Rosie Perera

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/328192#Comment_328192

I can't remember if we get an email giving us one last chance when a CP hits 100% if our bid is below the set price. If I knew that for sure, I could rest easy about it.

You will get an e-mail telling you that it made the 100% mark right and bidding will end Friday noon right?

My point was it's not this coming Friday noon for the Revelation set, because it hasn't gone over 100% yet. So I will have to stay vigilant every week. Will I get an email when it does go over 100%? If I don't, and I happen to forget to check the week that it goes over 100%, I would miss out on the set if my bid were at 50 and the strike price were higher.

But it seems this is one that lots of people care about not missing, so there's likely to be a post on the forums when it does go over 100%. Problem is, I sometimes take hiatuses from the forums too, so I might even miss that post. I'm sticking with 50 for now, and I just hope I don't miss out. I suppose it won't be the end of the world if I don't. I mean, I already have 71 commentaries on Revelation; it's not like I really need more....

Evan Boardman

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/328159#Comment_328159

but I am not sure if the series is worth $50 for me.

Just having Durham is worth $50 for me. I don't agree with PostMill but I do alot he has to say is hard to disagree with. A very godly and wise man.

I am not going to spend $90 for out of date commentaries.

Frankly to me, these out of date commentaries are the very best and would chose them over and others. I'm glad they are here.[:)]

fgh

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/328182#Comment_328182

I can't remember if we get an email giving us one last chance when a CP hits 100% if our bid is below the set price. If I knew that for sure, I could rest easy about it.

Of course you do. Are you saying you've never bid below the peak? I almost always do that, unless I'm very eager. It's only those who bid or raise after the 100% mark that can help bring the price down. If everyone who was ready to pay the peak price bid there from the start, there wouldn't be any bidders left to lower it after it crossed. Besides, at least half of what I've bid on have current prices that I'd never pay. I just bid something low so that I will get that reminding e-mail and can keep an eye out if it gets close enough to reconsider.

Dean J

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/328203#Comment_328203

But it seems this is one that lots of people care about not missing, so there's likely to be a post on the forums when it does go over 100%. Problem is, I sometimes take hiatuses from the forums too, so I might even miss that post. I'm sticking with 50 for now, and I just hope I don't miss out. I suppose it won't be the end of the world if I don't. I mean, I already have 71 commentaries on Revelation; it's not like I really need more....

71??? Is there a smiley for 'green with envy'? That is a LOT of commentaries!

I can't see this set getting anywhere near 100% for at least a few months - and possibly a few years, the way it's going. You could check in, and if the fifty has dislodged the 160, you could bid the higher price then - you would have plenty of time, I would imagine, before it went over the top.

fgh

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/328203#Comment_328203

Generally goes out within minutes of crossing the line.

Rosie Perera

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/328211#Comment_328211

OK, thanks fgh!

Dean J

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/328212#Comment_328212

I do believe the lower peak has moved up a little - or are my eyes playing interpretative tricks in me?

Michael

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/328519#Comment_328519

I do believe the lower peak has moved up a little - or are my eyes playing interpretative tricks in me?

It has! Both bids are now in the same blue bare between 40% and 60%.

BillS

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/328519#Comment_328519

I do believe the lower peak has moved up a little

Yay! Go, $50!

David Ames

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/328103#Comment_328103

Yes, it seems strange, but I suspect those who bid $160 would have a better chance of getting it into production by lowering their bid to $50. Then a lower peak could form and entice new bidders.

The peak at $50 includes all of the bids at more then $50 as if they were at $50. If all bids over 50 changed to $50 the 50 point would not change.

BUT without that peak at 160 maybe four times as many would jump in at 50 and we would get it. - this set is a MUST have for me and is preventing me from buying others until it has its price set. (my bid is at 50 - what I think is a good price)

JimTowler

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/328542#Comment_328542

People need to know and believe its possible to get this one for bids of US$50 or less. The bids at $160 do not really help, and in fact I think they hurt getting this title over the line.

Almost all the other "Classic Commmentaries on xxx" look like they will cross at only $40 to $50.

CP works best if we dont rush titles over the line, and not too many at once. I think I have low bids in on over $1000 worth of CP resources. It suits me just fine if some of these take many months before they go live and I get billed!

Paul Chatfield

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/328678#Comment_328678

I agree JimT with not rushing. It seems to me that we're getting great bargains in the medium term, but if we need things urgently, CP isn't the place for it. Revelation is doing far better than a number of CP's (just take Job and Psalms for some obvious examples) and my guess is it'll be through CP in the summer and in our hands by the Autumn - hopefully at $50

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/328685#Comment_328685

Looking at http://www.logos.com/product/8522/classic-commentaries-and-studies-on-revelation noticed $ 50 peak has grown a bit; stills needs more than double the number of current Logos user community bids to cover estimated production costs for 27 volumes with 12,448 pages.

Also, enough $ 160 community bids have been placed so $ 160 peak is higher than $ 50 peak. Guessing if 28 % of those who have bid $ 160 were to lower their bid to $ 50, the peak for $ 160 would become less than current $ 50 peak. Likewise if many more $ 50 bids are placed, the $ 50 peak would become bigger than $ 160 peak.

Praying for more bidders; suggest bidding highest amount willing to pay.

Keep Smiling [;)]

Dean J

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/328833#Comment_328833

Guessing if 28 % of those who have bid $ 160 were to lower their bid to $ 50, the peak for $ 160 would become less than current $ 50 peak.

Yes, but the question is - are those so willing to see it that they are willing pay so much for it also willing to lower their price in order to increase the chances of getting the set published?

Ken McGuire

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/330974#Comment_330974

While too high of a price scares people off, too low of a price causes problems as well. Take a look at the community pricing items sorted by "bestselling". That lets you know they are doing for bids. Currently Revelation is #17, and I suspect would pick up more people if the expected price was lower. On the other hand, The Preacher's Homiletic commentary is #2 on the list and not even close to production. The Hastings Encyclopedia of Religion and Ethics is #3 and even worse off.

Most of what comes through CP financially makes sense for me ONLY through CP. The "regular" price generally seems way too much for me

JimTowler

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/331027#Comment_331027

I'm sure other like me might have spent-up on many of the specials over the Christmas Sales period. If they too are thinking like me, I try to limit how much/many resources I bug or bid on at any one time.

In my case, I think I have indicated low bids on almost all the Classic CPs, and it really suits me if they take their time going over the line.

If people push too hard, me and others too might cancel some of the orders. Just my position, but I dare not think I'm always unique in my views.

Friedrich

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/331592#Comment_331592

if Barnes could make it over the top in CP (I think it took probably the half-life of uranium to do so), then Revelation collection can too. . .

David Ames

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/330974#Comment_330974

Yes, but the question is - are those so willing to see it that they are willing pay so much for it also willing to lower their price in order to increase the chances of getting the set published?

Yes, several have changed their bid to 50 but have also stated that they will pay 160 if and only if they must to get this [[the 50 now 160 latter if needed club]]

[[others that have bid 160 may not be reading the forum - there are subsets in this group that list for over 130 each in hard copy (or so they said)]]

Evan Boardman

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/331722#Comment_331722

Perhaps if the $160 Revelation group bidded like the Philippians group of $90 it would pass. I still say its to high but at least they passed it. But Like David said I tend to think many bidders dont read the Forums.

Dean J

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/331724#Comment_331724

Perhaps if the $160 Revelation group bidded like the Philippians group of $90 it would pass. I still say its to high but at least they passed it. But Like David said I tend to think many bidders dont read the Forums.

Exactly - people want it so much they are willing to pay $160, but apparently they don't want it so much that they are willing to bid a price that would more likely get it into production.

nicky crane

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/331962#Comment_331962

Now we've got Philippians down from $90 to $40 in less than a week, how about getting together to deal with Revelation?

I've upped my bid to $100, which no way will I pay, but if the price goes down maybe more people will bid. We really need more people to take the plunge and bid at $50, which is actually nearer completion than $100!

Dean J

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/332793#Comment_332793

Now we've got Philippians down from $90 to $40 in less than a week, how about getting together to deal with Revelation?

I've upped my bid to $100, which no way will I pay, but if the price goes down maybe more people will bid. We really need more people to take the plunge and bid at $50, which is actually nearer completion than $100!

[Y] I'm upping my bid to a $100 too.

If everyone gets on board, we can move it down once it peaks past the $160, and bring it down hopefully to somewhere in the $40 range.

BriM

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/332793#Comment_332793

I've upped my bid to $100, which no way will I pay, but if the price goes down maybe more people will bid. We really need more people to take the plunge and bid at $50, which is actually nearer completion than $100!

I don't think bidding at 100 will acheive anything that a bid at 50 won't. The very slight peak at 100 is well below that at 50. 100 is too much to tempt bidders on board so I don't think it will tip over there. I'd say the best option is for some of the 160s to reduce to 50 or find more people to enter at 50. Second best would be to bid at 160 and try to tip it over. I don't recommend that because you could end up pricing people out of the market. We got lucky with Philippians as we had a good week to get down to a fair price. What would happen if someone tipped Revelation over on Wednesday morning so there were only a couple of days to drive the price down?

I've temporarily upped my 40 to 50 to encourage the peak there.

nicky crane

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/332844#Comment_332844

My thinking is that maybe more people would bid at $100 than at 160, and then we might get it down to $50, as Philippians went down very fast from 90 to 40. If the 100 peak was higher than the 160, maybe more people would start bidding. My 100 bid still supports the 50 peak, where I'd hope to see the bidding arrive as I'm not going to pay more than that anyway.

David Bailey

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/332852#Comment_332852

My recent bid is at $50 for this set. Folks at $160, lower your bids down to this price point. It may take more bidders, but I think we can do.

BriM

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/332852#Comment_332852

My thinking is that maybe more people would bid at $100 than at 160, and then we might get it down to $50, as Philippians went down very fast from 90 to 40. If the 100 peak was higher than the 160, maybe more people would start bidding. My 100 bid still supports the 50 peak, where I'd hope to see the bidding arrive as I'm not going to pay more than that anyway.

But how will they know to bid 100?

If they just look at the headline price, they'll see 160 and be put off; if they look at the graph, they'll see the next spike at 50. If we can't get them to bid 50, why would they bid 100?

Good luck if you succeed, I just don't see the logic. I think it needs a different tactic to Philippians - in that case, the price had tipped and we had to do tactical bidding to make the headline price look attractive. In this case we can stick to our guns until it tips.

Dean J

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/332879#Comment_332879

Here's the link:

http://www.logos.com/product/8522/classic-commentaries-and-studies-on-revelation

If everyone in at $50 upped their bid to $70, we would knock $160 off the top spot and would attract lots of new bidders (look at how many people were willing to go up to $90 for the Philippians set).

Dean J

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/332880#Comment_332880

My thinking is that maybe more people would bid at $100 than at 160, and then we might get it down to $50, as Philippians went down very fast from 90 to 40. If the 100 peak was higher than the 160, maybe more people would start bidding. My 100 bid still supports the 50 peak, where I'd hope to see the bidding arrive as I'm not going to pay more than that anyway.

But how will they know to bid 100?

If they just look at the headline price, they'll see 160 and be put off; if they look at the graph, they'll see the next spike at 50. If we can't get them to bid 50, why would they bid 100?

Good luck if you succeed, I just don't see the logic. I think it needs a different tactic to Philippians - in that case, the price had tipped and we had to do tactical bidding to make the headline price look attractive. In this case we can stick to our guns until it tips.

The difference is, the $100 bid would be the bid with the peak, and some people seem only to see the peak.

Furthermore, there are people who simply won't put in a lower bid if they don't think there is a chance of getting it at that price, as the Philippians set has shown.

Enough people were willing to bid for the Philippians set at the very high $90 - imagine how much more would bid for Revelation? And since it isn't close to production, there would be much more time to get it back down to $50 or less.

Evan Boardman

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/332886#Comment_332886

I think there wasnt enough bidders to tip Rev. at $160, but now that alot of people saw what happened to Phil. they might bid high in order to tip it and then work it down. I say work on it but dont tip it cause it looks like Corinthians is about to tip and it could discourage people having to many bids at once.

Friedrich

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/332900#Comment_332900

I think there wasnt enough bidders to tip Rev. at $160, but now that alot of people saw what happened to Phil. they might bid high in order to tip it and then work it down. I say work on it but dont tip it cause it looks like Corinthians is about to tip and it could discourage people having to many bids at once.