Love new book previews, BUT...
I love the improvements LOGOS did to the website, including searching and book previews via Biblia.com. It shows that LOGOS is listening to comments and suggestions of its users. Thank you for that!
At the risk of sounding ungrateful, I have a big gripe: I have come across MANY books where Table Of Contents is completely absent or partially unavailable. latest being
A Western Jesus: The Wayward Americanization of Christ and the Church
I view it as a big deal when considering a book for purchase. Right now preview pages appear to be random.
- Would it be possible to definitely include the entire TOC in previews.
- in another thread it was suggested to include 1 complete chapter for review purposes (ala Kindle)
Comments
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toughski said:
Would it be possible to definitely include the entire TOC in previews.
This is needed. The old screen shot approach Logos took the TOC was often all one saw. The current is an improvement but a TOC view is really essential for exploring a book. Second the motion.
toughski said:in another thread it was suggested to include 1 complete chapter for review purposes (ala Kindle)
At least six-eight pages in a row from a couple of different chapters. And please give us a header that tells us where we are: what the chapter is and the chapter title when we are looking at previews.
The 'samples' as they are presented now are of some help, but they are not enough to really evaluate a book. You are going in the right direction, however, Logos.
Pastor, North Park Baptist Church
Bridgeport, CT USA
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Yes, I agree with all of the above.
Ideally some sort of navigation through the sample pages like what Amazon.com provides would be very helpful, and including at least Copyright page, TOC, Index (if any), and first few pages of main content of the book. The latter should start at first real chapter (not the Foreword, Preface, or Introduction, though including a few pages of the beginning of some of that front matter would be useful too -- entire Preface or Intro if it's not too long).
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All these comments are on the money.
Here's how Logos should think about it: If I still have to go to Amazon or books.google.com to sufficiently evaluate a book's content to decide if I want to buy It, then the "See Inside" feature isn't good enough.
Donnie
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Donnie Hale said:
If I still have to go to Amazon or books.google.com to sufficiently evaluate a book's content to decide if it, then the "See Inside" feature isn't good enough.
That's why LOGOS is losing (my) money. I am buying Kindle resources left and right, because Amazon is making it a better user experience to evaluate, research and try-out a book. I am not even talking about much better pricing.
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Agree also with the above. But it's probably refreshing to see customers wanting to check over the merchandise. I for one really like it because it lets me compare the hardcopy version to the Logos version (whether notes are included, appendices, etc).
So whoever is behind the page development, kudos!
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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toughski said:
I am buying Kindle resources left and right, because Amazon is making it a better user experience to evaluate, research and try-out a book
I am buying Kindle resources left and right because they're THERE and they aren't available on Logos yet. I am really really trying to resist when it's theological books, but that's becoming harder and harder. Logos has given me such an impatient "I want it now, click, I've got it now" attitude towards books. So when they don't have something I want, it's very very tempting to go get it from Amazon. I needed some books for a course on the History of World Christianity, for example. Bought them from Amazon. These included books from Zondervan, Wiley-Blackwell, Cambridge University Press, and HarperCollins.
Yes, I guess I know Amazon is a huge company and has more clout and money to get more books published digitally faster, but when it comes to the realm of Christian books, Logos should RULE, no matter what the publisher! [:)] I'm not whining. I want for Logos to be successful at what they do. And I'd rather have these books in my Logos library so they'd be interlinked. But in some cases, I'd simply rather have them now than wait. Time and my reading whims wait for no man.
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Rosie Perera said:
I needed some books for a course on the History of World Christianity, for example.
Promise me that the course recognizes that Western Europe wasn't the center of the Christian world for the first millennium or so. [8-|]
Seriously, would you be willing to share the reading list?
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Yes, we really need the TOC, and we need useful pages. For example, for a commentary we need both some pages from the introduction -- on something like dating, authorship, or some theological issue -- and some pages of [more or less] verse by verse commentary. And if the commentary claims something special -- in depth thematic articles, detailed maps, great charts... -- we need to see examples of that as well.
What would be really useful would be if Logos preselected a good 'controversial' pericope in each book of the Bible, and then displayed that section for every commentary on that book. And the same with dictionaries and encyclopaedias: preselect a number of 'telling' words, and then display those entries for all.
MJ. Smith said:Rosie Perera said:I needed some books for a course on the History of World Christianity, for example.
(...) would you be willing to share the reading list?
Yes, please. If you have the time, perhaps you could make it into a Reading List?
Mac Pro (late 2013) OS 12.6.2
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Rosie Perera said:
Christian books, Logos should RULE, no matter what the publisher!
I'm not whining. I want for Logos to be successful at what they do. And I'd rather have these books in my Logos library so they'd be interlinked. But in some cases, I'd simply rather have them now than wait. Time and my reading whims wait for no man.I still buy paper books because of my reading whims, but I have recently bought some digital copies from Amazon, and like my Logos books on their kindel fire better then the ones they sell. It's really irratating to not be able to touch the note in the text and see what it says, in the kindel version I actually have to go to the back of the book to read the note, in the Logos book I touch and it's on screen.
Now I haven't played with the notes in/on the kindel, and to see if they update in the cloud, but would love it if the Logos app would be able to highlight and take notes. But I agree, when i'm in the middle of studying something, and see something that is quoted that I would like to read, Amazon has the edge. Logos, get with it, you're losing easy profits from us reading nerds. Oh, and another thing, the book I have in the kindel from amazon doesn't have page references, the logos app has!!!!!!
Hey Logos, if you guys can improve the android app by the New Year with highlighting and notes, I can live with that. [:D]... otherwise, it's really Great app!
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Also, when you're finished with the far more important issues, you might want to make sections like this look somewhat prettier:
From the preview of JPS Commentary on the Haggadah.
Mac Pro (late 2013) OS 12.6.2
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I would recommend that we wait and see what Logos has in its super secret beta lab, before we jump the gun. Remember they are just getting started with the wish list, and only rolled it out in its introductory stages, because some of us kept asking for it.
If we (ahem I) had not been so persistent, it might still be in the oven with the lights off.
Mission: To serve God as He desires.
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toughski said:Donnie Hale said:
If I still have to go to Amazon or books.google.com to sufficiently evaluate a book's content to decide if it, then the "See Inside" feature isn't good enough.
That's why LOGOS is losing (my) money. I am buying Kindle resources left and right, because Amazon is making it a better user experience to evaluate, research and try-out a book. I am not even talking about much better pricing.
Then I would say that you are being very foolish for allowing this to prevent you from utilizing a far superior presentation. It's your choice if you want to lose this functionality. I will buy Kindle books that I simply want to read and not link to others in my library, but, if linking is in the picture, I'll buy Logos.
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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George Somsel said:
Then I would say that you are being very foolish for allowing this to prevent you from utilizing a far superior presentation. It's your choice if you want to lose this functionality. I will buy Kindle books that I simply want to read and not link to others in my library, but, if linking is in the picture, I'll buy Logos.
I call this a lose-lose situation. It is up to Logos to make it a win-win
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We're still tuning what we show from the books. The goal is 5% of the content, and we are (or already have) adjusted the algorithm to show more at the front of the book and less in the remainder.
I can now see the whole Table of Contents for "A Western Jesus" -- is this good enough, or do we need other changes?
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Bob Pritchett said:
We're still tuning what we show from the books. The goal is 5% of the content, and we are (or already have) adjusted the algorithm to show more at the front of the book and less in the remainder.
I can now see the whole Table of Contents for "A Western Jesus" -- is this good enough, or do we need other changes?
What is good enough for one book may not be good enough for another. Some need to have the TOC displayed while others do not. For a commentary, e.g., I don't see much need for a TOC since we know the material a good deal of the book covers. In that case what is needed is a bit of the introduction and a small section of commentary to display how the author deals with the text. Other resources such as Festschriften must have a complete TOC.
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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Bob Pritchett said:
I can now see the whole Table of Contents for "A Western Jesus" -- is this good enough, or do we need other changes?
I noticed this too. THANK YOU!
However, taken from the very beginning of introduction "This is not a book about theology or philosophy of ministry. It is a book ..." and it cuts off. What does the author think this book is about? I have no clue!
I think that in Introductions authors are presenting the reasons their book was written, what distinguishes it from the rest, their whole perspective on the issue at hand. I do not see why this "marketing" info needs to be omitted.
OK, can we have the Title page, Copyright, Acknowledgement, Dedication, Foreword and the Table of Contents in their entirety as well as some coherent representative part of content (whether it is 5% or less).
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For the most part I would think that providing one full chapter (for books with chapters) would be sufficient for almost any preview, and in most cases would comprise less than 5% of the book, and still provide the kind of depth being needed. For a dictionary a few full articles. For a Lexicon, a few full pages.
Sarcasm is my love language. Obviously I love you. 0 -
TCBlack said:
For the most part I would think that providing one full chapter (for books with chapters) would be sufficient for almost any preview, and in most cases would comprise less than 5% of the book, and still provide the kind of depth being needed. For a dictionary a few full articles. For a Lexicon, a few full pages.
Thomas, while I would not object to one full chapter (cool!), I have found that there are times when a book has two distinct parts (such as David Bosch's Transforming Mission, which I still await in Logos format). Sometimes books have theology and application, or history and case-study, etc. etc. it would be nice to have a broader overview, because the book's quality (and perhaps the key part one is interested in buying the book for) can vary from section to section. No algorithm will work perfectly for every book--I understand that. But I still advocate a cross section.
I would agree with the poster who would like to see a section of commentary, ie, how it handles a verse from start to finish. Think of WBC that has several distinct parts.
I noticed (in another thread) that TOC is still lacking in several book previews.
I like Apples. Especially Honeycrisp.
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Complete ToCs are now available in every resource preview via a button immediately to the right of the reference box. I know this won't address the desire for larger and more targeted preview sections but hopefully will provide a better feeling for the structure of the book.
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[Y]
Thank you Thomas and Logos!
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Thomas Beirne said:
Complete ToCs are now available in every resource preview via a button immediately to the right of the reference box. I know this won't address the desire for larger and more targeted preview sections but hopefully will provide a better feeling for the structure of the book.
I really like it, thank you.
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Thomas Beirne said:
Complete ToCs are now available in every resource preview via a button immediately to the right of the reference box.
Wow, this is cool, thank you!
Have joy in the Lord!
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