Greek education/training
If I could get a formal degree at a local Christian university, BIOLA in my case, how much Greek education would I need to be able to fully use Logos 4? I just want to know how advanced an education a person needs to fully utilize Logos 4 Platinum's Greek (and Hebrew?) facilities. For example, is an M. Div. sufficient or would a person need more?
Comments
For example, is an M. Div. sufficient or would a person need more?
Hello and welcome Steve,
Not all M.Div programs are equivalent. I would say that with one year of NT Greek under your belt plus the "learn biblical Greek with Logos DVDs" you should be able to use the tool to its full potential.
If I could get a formal degree at a local Christian university, BIOLA in my case, how much Greek education would I need to be able to fully use Logos 4? I just want to know how advanced an education a person needs to fully utilize Logos 4 Platinum's Greek (and Hebrew?) facilities. For example, is an M. Div. sufficient or would a person need more?
To use Logos to its full potential, you'd probably need a PhD in Greek, if not another one in Linguistics.
However, to use the Greek and Hebrew tools in Logos, in an educated and careful way (so as not to read in the Greek, what isn't there), would require one or two years of Greek at the college level, and/or a year of Biblical Greek (Koine) at the graduate (seminary) level.
It is possible to get started in original language work in Logos knowing next to nothing (the reverse interlinears make some kinds of studies very, very easy), but there are a lot of pitfalls to avoid, and the less training you have the more vulnerable you are to them.
Help links: WIKI; Logos 6 FAQ. (Phil. 2:14, NIV)
I've been working my way through Greek for the Rest of Us: Using Greek Tools without Mastering Biblical Greek
I don't plan to stop there though, I'm just trying to get some immediately applicable knowledge and a head start for when I start Greek at seminary.
To all respondents,
Mitchell's Mounce suggestion looks like the most direct route to SOME progress in Greek as it
is the most financially realistic for me now. Mounce has two
publications that, together, are less than $100. I was just curious as
to how deep Logos software went into the grammar of the original
languages. When R. DeRuiter mentioned a Ph.D., I was frightened away
from the prospect. Regarding the Logos DVDs, I am tired of spending so
much money on Logos software, owning the Platinum plus more, but this
may be the step necc. to make the pieces of the puzzle fit together.
Blessings to you all for your gracious, wide-ranging wisdom.
Steve
Regarding the Logos DVDs, I am tired of spending so
much money on Logos software, owning the Platinum plus more, but this
may be the step necc. to make the pieces of the puzzle fit together.
Have seen Logos DVD's => Learn to Use Biblical Greek and Hebrew with Logos Bible Software on sale a couple times: not know if (when) for repeat.
Looking at Logos package comparison => http://www.logos.com/comparison noticed Scholar's Platinum includes a reference Greek Grammar => Grammar of the Greek New Testament in the Light of Historical Research plus some introductory Greek Grammar resources; may want to look at resources in your library:
type:grammar greek
Caveat: Master Library Builder (2,010 vols.) added 11 Greek Grammatical resources to my library, including => A Short Grammar of the Greek New Testament, for Students Familiar with the Elements of Greek (an intermediate grammar) and => Learning New Testament Greek Now and Then (beginning) that has Logos Greek Morphological codes in the 2nd chapter for Libronix 3, which have changed a bit in Logos 4: e.g. Libronix 3 NMSG became NGSM in Logos 4 for Noun, Genitive, Singular, Masculine. Chapter 3 of Learning New Testament Greek Now and Then introduces sentence diagramming with using morphological coding (for word parsing).
Thread => Another Interlinear Q. Original Greek and English Translation includes an observation about Greek and English interlinear usage (caution).
Keep Smiling [:)]
Persistence will make up for a lack of brilliance (or professional education).
A basic knowledge of Greek will certainly help you benefit from the many language tools available in Logos. I am not sure anyone ever is able to "fully use" Logos, because there is always more to learn. But it will surely help.
If you have the opportunity to study Greek, I would highly recommend taking advantage of that opportunity. It will greatly benefit your study of God's Word.
I took far more Greek that was required of me at Asbury Seminary, and Asbury required far more than the average seminary. In fact, I had to take 6 hours of Greek that did not even count toward my degree before they let me start taking Greek exegesis courses that did count toward my degree. How I resented those hours not counting at the time! Now I wish they had made me take 12 hours Greek before starting. (They now count those 6 hours toward the degree as elective hours. The whimps!) I will not even say what I think of a seminary that does not require Greek.
One more thing, there is no "magic bullet" or "short cut" or "easy way" to learn Greek. It takes practice and persistence. It is worth it.
I am blessed by your desire to study God's Word seriously. I commend you, and will pray for you.
"In all cases, the Church is to be judged by the Scripture, not the Scripture by the Church," John Wesley
The above wisdom is GREAT!
I have done both undergrad and graduate work in Biblical languages - In the first year of a Biblical language (Greek or Hebrew) you will learn how the words are formed with case and endings and many schools will teach the difference between "tense" and "aspect" (which is HUGE for an English speaker to grasp when dealing with Biblical languages). In the 2nd year you will learn how those words interact with each other to communicate thoughts of the author. (this is especially where you learn what Richard was warning about not reading in what is not there)
After viewing the logos DVD set on Biblical languages, I believe they do a good job of showing how Logos Software (Especially Reverse Interlinears) displays the information you learn in first year. Many of the Logos resources with Lexham in the title are directed at what you learn in 2nd year and the exploding field of text linguistics.
Making Disciples! Logos Ecosystem = LogosMax on Microsoft Surface Pro 7 (Win11), Android app on tablet, FSB on iPhone & iPad mini, Proclaim (Proclaim Remote on Fire Tablet).
If I could get a formal degree at a local Christian university, BIOLA in my case, how much Greek education would I need to be able to fully use Logos 4? I just want to know how advanced an education a person needs to fully utilize Logos 4 Platinum's Greek (and Hebrew?) facilities. For example, is an M. Div. sufficient or would a person need more?
Four years of classical and a couple of years of Koine plus years of experience in using it.
george
gfsomsel
יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
Steve, you have received a lot of good answers already. I will try to answer your question best as I understand it.
If I could get a formal degree at a local Christian university, BIOLA in my case, how much Greek education would I need to be able to fully use Logos 4?
BIOLA is a fine school and will teach you Greek well. Classroom study has many benefits over self-study. I would recommend picking up at least one year of classroom Greek. If it works in your degree plan and you are enjoying the studies, go for a second year.
I just want to know how advanced an education a person needs to fully utilize Logos 4 Platinum's Greek (and Hebrew?) facilities.
The hard part of your question is the "fully utilize" part. I am not one of "them" but there are a few translators and many trained linguists who read the forums. From what I have gathered, they make good use of Logos' capabilities. So a M. Div. is not necessary to "fully utilize" Logos Platinum. But you will not find yourself bored or limited with it either. Depending on the direction your studies take you, you can add many more study resources. (Hebrew, Coptic, Classical Greek & Latin.)
One year of Greek at BIOLA will be a great help. Two years would be fantastic. Or you could just use several of the resources others have recommended.
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
If I could get a formal degree at a local Christian university, BIOLA in my case, how much Greek education would I need to be able to fully use Logos 4? I just want to know how advanced an education a person needs to fully utilize Logos 4 Platinum's Greek (and Hebrew?) facilities. For example, is an M. Div. sufficient or would a person need more?
Way back in the 3rd Grade I was presented with a Bible of my own by my then local congregation so I could read and study the Bible. Could I understand it all then? No way. I have a seminary degree and am still learning. While I don't have a PhD, I have talked with more than a few who say they are still learning. Does this mean that my congregation was wrong to give me a Bible of my own back then when I couldn't understand it all? By no means! I have learned much and been fed greatly through my life through it.
Logos is a tool that can go pretty far. Not having to spend as much time looking things up in various resources is a huge time saver and makes me feel more free to follow up on those hunches that may be nothing but may be interesting.
How you are a steward of your time and money is something for you to figure out with God. Some are called into more - others less.
The Gospel is not ... a "new law," on the contrary, ... a "new life." - William Julius Mann
L8 Anglican, Lutheran and Orthodox Silver, Reformed Starter, Academic Essentials
L7 Lutheran Gold, Anglican Bronze
I just want to know how advanced an education a person needs to fully utilize Logos 4 Platinum's Greek (and Hebrew?) facilities. For example, is an M. Div. sufficient or would a person need more?
Hi Steve,
I had typed out a detailed response to you but my internet connection went down just as I clicked send - and now it is lost.
Suffice it to say that it is well worth the time spent if you are able to get more out of Logos > more out of the Scriptures > grow in your relationship with the Lord > and bear more fruit that will remain.
Go for it!!!! [Y]
Welcome [:D]
Apologies: not know how much education is needed for full utilization. Personally still living and learning.
Thankful for Logos Greek Morphology visual filters; wiki has Extended Tips for Visual Filters => Examples of visual filters so can highlight range of verbal expression in Greek and English.
Logos offers => Learn to Use Biblical Greek and Hebrew with Logos Bible Software
Thankful for Michael Heiser's companion web site to Futato's "Beginning Biblical Hebrew" => http://michaelsheiser.com/HWH.htm
Thankful for Lexham Discourse Greek New Testament
Hoping for more pre-orders => Lexham Discourse Hebrew Bible Bundle (6 vols.) so resource can be developed.
Keep Smiling [:)]