Help: reviewing new wiki page

Don't have anything to suggest yet. But after having read about 40% of your work, just wanted to say that I am very impressed. I will try to read the rest tomorrow, but it does not appear that you have missed anything.

i have invested 100+ hours in this so far

Thank you for your devotion.

Dave Hooton

Steve, I'll add comments for each section.

These are for Introduction:-

Methods for adding individual notes to a Note
File

	Method	Details
1	Using the Add Note button	This adds an unattached note to your Note File
2	Use the Right-click menu	This provides the ability to add attached notes or Highlighting to your resources/books
3	Use the Redirect method in Highlighting	This provides the ability to have Highlights added (redirected) to your Note File when using the Highlighting tool.

--> Would help to indicate where the action is performed under another heading or Method. #2 is not used for highlights.

(A)
Note Indicator, (B) Title, and (C) the Content
area.

--> also show the Reference as that is not editable.

When you select Selection in the Right-click
method, the Note Indicator will appear only in that book where you
right-clicked to add your note (providing that you set
the Note Indicator to be something other than None).

--> this is confusing because you haven't yet talked about setting note indicators and it implies it could appear in other books.

Adding a note using the
Right-Click menu

³ For highlighting
to show,

(a) you must have selected the text when creating the note.

(b) you must select a highlighting style from the Note Indicator drop down
menu next to your note.

(c) you must have your Note File checked in your book inside the Visual
Filter Menu.

⁴ For your Note Indicator
to show,

(a) you must have selected selected a Note Indicator for your note other
than None.

(b) you must have your Note File checked in your book inside the Visual Filter
Menu.

--> again, this is confusing because you haven't yet talked about setting note indicators and styles. I would assume default settings and then talk about changing them.

NB.Mick

i am nearing completion of a new Note's wiki page for version 4.5 and up. i have invested 100+ hours in this so far and i could use your help. Please review the page and if you see anything which i have missed or any corrections, please leave a post here in this thread and i will make the corrections.

Thank you in advance for your help!

Steve,

thank you first for your enormous work! That's really great.

Some things I stumbled over (at first looking into it, no thorough review) that you might want to consider:

open an existing notefile is buried as second bullet under create a new notefile - no one will find this from the site's TOC. Imho, this should be a paragraph on its own with its own title

the following Hint may be helpful, but not on your page. All other hints refer to using the Notes feature - this one refers to using the wiki page (thus should be on the wiki main page, not here). I suggest removing it. If you feel there should be an advice like this, consider putting it on top of the page, maybe in all-italics or otherwise differently formatted, and name it something like "wiki usage tip" to differentiate from the Hints that help with using the Notes feature
the section on creating links to documents was at first rather confusing to me. Why should I paste a file location into the note, later copy it and then delete it?.

I think you are right with your hint, but to explain it to people like me, I'd suggest putting in a screenshot of the link target field like this
and explaining that the field expects a filename including the full path and one could just paste the filename from somewhere else or edit (=build or type) it in the hyperlink box, as long as it stays open.
Your Hint then is more understandable as an optional set of steps for having more control over the process of building the filename (like: getting path from explorer window and filename from file properties, or just typing it). I personally tend to shorten this by creating a link in Explorer to the file and copying the target address - but then MS sometimes makes quotes around it and I have to remove them for Logos.

These are just points that occurred to me - thanks again for doing this!

Hi Steve

Many thanks for your work on this - it is going to be very helpful.

I think the extensive use of hints is a great bonus! The "Problems?" section at the end is also going to be very useful

A few comments (some picky!):

In the paragraph on note placement (below) the word "place" which I have underlined should be "placed":

"When notes are added they are placed inside your Note File where Logos4 thinks they need to be. Notes added via theAdd Note button are added to the bottom of the Note File. Notes added via the other 2 methods may be place in canonical or alphabetical order within your Note File. You can move a note to different positions within your Note File (see Moving a note’s position). Keep in mind though if you Sort your notes via the Note menu that your order is lost."

In your comments on creating a note using the Right-Click menu:

⁴ For your Note Indicator to show,
(a) you must have selected selected a Note Indicator for your note other than None.
(b) you must have your Note File checked in your book inside the Visual Filter Menu.

the word "selected" appears twice in (a)

In the section which starts "Adding note(s) by Redirecting Highlighting to your Note File" you talk about redirecting highlighting notes to a specific file and the option of using a default note file. I think it would be helpful to have some of the concepts explained about how highlights are now specific instances of notes and the implications of this. Otherwise, this might be rather confusing.

Great work, Steve

Thanks, Graham

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/352006#Comment_352006

Thanks Graham for your input!

In the paragraph on note placement (below) the word "place" which I have underlined should be "placed":

Done

In your comments on creating a note using the Right-Click menu:

Done

In the section which starts "Adding note(s) by Redirecting Highlighting to your Note File" you talk about redirecting highlighting notes to a specific file and the option of using a default note file. I think it would be helpful to have some of the concepts explained about how highlights are now specific instances of notes and the implications of this. Otherwise, this might be rather confusing.

ugggghhh, this one was more difficult. So i thought it out and rewrote the bullets under this heading. And spaced them a little apart with indention for emphasis to different topics.
Adding note(s) by Redirecting Highlighting to your Note File

========================================

Dave and NB, i am still looking into your suggestions.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/352270#Comment_352270

ugggghhh, this one was more difficult. So i thought it out and rewrote the bullets under this heading. And spaced them a little apart with indention for emphasis to different topics.
Adding note(s) by Redirecting Highlighting to your Note File

Good work, Steve!

NB.Mick

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/352270#Comment_352270

Dave and NB, i am still looking into your suggestions.

while you're at it, one more point: I can't recall a wiki page with a two-column TOC. This really confused me at first, since I thought the items in the right column were further infos to the ones in the left. I understand that you want to have the TOC fit on one screen page, but I'm not sure this solution helps a lot.

Maybe it's just a bit of space between the left & right columns that's needed... I don't know.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/352313#Comment_352313

Maybe it's just a bit of space between the left & right columns that's needed

Is it possible to add a vertical line between the columns?

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/352313#Comment_352313

Dave and NB, i am still looking into your suggestions.

while you're at it, one more point: I can't recall a wiki page with a two-column TOC. This really confused me at first, since I thought the items in the right column were further infos to the ones in the left. I understand that you want to have the TOC fit on one screen page, but I'm not sure this solution helps a lot.

Maybe it's just a bit of space between the left & right columns that's needed... I don't know.

Wiki has some two column TOC's => http://wiki.logos.com/Mac_Troubleshooting (bit easier to rearrange TOC order) and => http://wiki.logos.com/Using_the_Forum Note: Thanks to Steve using Bold in TOC, Mac Troubleshooting now has some Bold TOC lines; Thanks to Jack's suggestion, added a vertical line between TOC columns and removed TOC bullet points (similar to Steve's new TOC, but without lots of horizontal lines).

Introduction comment: lots of Note content can be too long for display in Logos 4

For Notes to show in multiple books (resources), the resources need to have indexes for the same reference data (e.g. Bible, Headwords, Strongs)

Note: headwords can appear in dictionaries, encyclopedias, lexicons, etc. (could add encyclopedias after dictionaries)

Logos 4.3 release notes and Logos 4 help includes Mac keyboard shortcuts for Notes (Indentation keyboard shortcuts are different). PC control key often becomes command key on Mac.

Wiki Mac and PC User Interface Differences => Feature Parity includes (Note: Logos was written by Bob Pritchett):

PC Notes can automatically hyperlink scripture in notes while hyperlink can be manually added on Mac

Logos: We presently use operating system controls for rich text editing on each platform. The functionality is not the same on each, and we are unable to hook in at a low level to enable all the desired features on the Mac platform. Our long term plan is to replace the OS provided rich text editor with our own component, but until then we are unlikely to be able to advance the text editing features beyond their current state.

- - - - - -

The "Alert this is reported as not working in the Mac yet." refers to known feature parity issue, which could be moved from after f) to after c) Alternative is referencing Feature Parity since automatic hyperlink generation on Mac is a long term goal by Logos.

Mac uses cmd+click to follow hyperlink in a note. Logos 4.5b Beta 5 on Mac has a bit of a time lag, need to hover over link, wait for pop-up, then can use cmd+click to open.

Using Logos 4.5b Beta 5 on Mac can create a hyperlink to a web page, but cmd+click does not switch to browser. Can sync note to Logos 4.5b Beta 5 on PC then use ctrl+click to open hyperlink.

Keep Smiling [:)]

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/352322#Comment_352322

Maybe it's just a bit of space between the left & right columns that's needed

Is it possible to add a vertical line between the columns?

Noticed double bar has been added to TOC grid (lock ?)

Apologies: not used to seeing TOC in a spreadsheet style with lines around every entry.

Keep Smiling [:)]

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/352492#Comment_352492

Hi KS4J,

Noticed double bar has been added to TOC grid (lock ?)

i noticed in NB's comments...

This really confused me at first, since I thought
the items in the right column were further infos to the ones in the
left.

We all are different in some ways. The double-lines add a visual boundary for the eyes of those who are not used to a 2 column table format.

My primary purpose was to put the primary topics on the Left (where our eyes start) and secondary items on the right. Also when some are looking thru the TOC trying to find things, they sometimes get frustrated when they need to scroll up & down. Also some of the headings are fairly long and wrap (if a user is not using maximize for their browser window).

Apologies: not used to seeing TOC in a spreadsheet style with lines around every entry.

Apology accepted! ([:O] although you may not have meant it like that???)

As i mentioned above, some headings wrap, so having the table lines help train the eye to realize part of the heading is on the line immediately under it (i also forced indentation of the lines under). i find that having a good descriptive heading is useful to those who don't know exactly what they are looking for.

Peace brothers, Joy in our Lord and Grace to us all !

steve

EDUARDO JIMENEZ

Wonder about the convenience of mentioning the other places where you can add notes too. (PG, EG, BWS), and how to deal with them. Imho, Logos should provide manner to integrate this notes as well, They are scattered, disconnected, useless.

Thanks for your work, Sir.

PS: Remember that these notes are not about the books themselves, but annotations, comments, impressions of the information obtained.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/352571#Comment_352571

Hi Roger,

Wonder about the convenience of mentioning the other places where you can add notes too. (PG, EG, BWS)

Notes itself seems to be complicated enough not to mix it with the other sections (notes in the guides). i sympathize with your struggle with notes in the other tools. But in the EG and BWS wiki pages, i mentioned in each place the importance of keeping track of each of the saved EG/BWS guides. i did not try to discourage their use, although i personally tend to use traditional note with hyperlinks to the guides (that way the guides aren't saved and my note are easy to find and the link opens the guide(s) to exactly where i was.).

Exegetical Guide Bible Word Study

and how to deal with them. Imho, Logos should provide manner to integrate this notes as well, They are scattered, disconnected, useless.

As mentioned above, i emphasized that users should track them with Favorites. There are so few tools available with the note sections in these tools, it is like Logos was trying to dissuade us from using them. But that aside, i can see ways that these are useful to others. With the easier way to locate them with Search (My Content added as a source in the Basic search) makes it easier for users who use these areas for notes.

PS: Remember that these notes are not about the books themselves, but annotations, comments, impressions of the information obtained.

These sound like the most likely the way many users use them, but no one can complete say how all users will use Notes. i myself many time use notes to hold links to a collection of information in different sources. (e.g. all the Charts in the ESVSB, topics on doctrines: Salvation, Persecution, Sanctification and in such may reference works outside of Logos which are found on the web or in my other documents ).

Thank you for your response, my intent was not to argue and hope you realize that i am just explaining alternatives and reasons.

Peace in our Lord!
steve

EDUARDO JIMENEZ

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/352586#Comment_352586

Mi amigo Steve:

Thank you for your response, my intent was not to argue and hope you realize that i am just explaining alternatives and reasons.

No problem sir, I thank God for your help! Sorry if I've been to pushy on this.

Saludos.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/352561#Comment_352561

As i mentioned above, some headings wrap, so having the table lines help train the eye to realize part of the heading is on the line immediately under it (i also forced indentation of the lines under). i find that having a good descriptive heading is useful to those who don't know exactly what they are looking for.

While keeping TOC line wrapping, added alternate TOC format to wiki page for visual comparison, which does not have lines around every TOC entry (easy to shift a set of items from left column to right column). Noticed when a mouse hovers on a TOC line with wrapping, underling appears for both lines.

Please look at both TOC's on your temp page, then delete one.

Thankful for wiki collaboration plus Thankful for new wiki page. Thanks Steve.

Keep Smiling [:)]

NB.Mick

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/352670#Comment_352670

Keep Smiling, Steve:

I appreciate the changes to the TOC. When looking at the other two-column TOCs mentioned above, and especially now when comparing the two TOCs, I feel that the horizontal lines that make it look like a spreadsheet are what mislead me in the first place and still irritates. Maybe this is a problem only for people who use Excel a lot...

If I could give an opinion, then, I'd vote for a TOC style without horizontal lines. But I think that's not a must. The new allocation bewteen left and right column does a lot, so either wayyou decide on the layout format, I'd suggest keeping this. That said, the new layout option still has the two columns very near to each other - I could imagine putting the vertical bars between them (I like that) or at least have them more separated.

By the way, Steve, thanks for moving the Hint for picture usage up below the TOC. If you don't feel like making a separete section on opening existing note files, maybe changing the paragraph title to "creating and opening Note files" would do for a start...

My €0,02

Brother Mark

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/352677#Comment_352677

Just to keep the Great TOC bonfire going... I agree that the excel-like cell format isn't beneficial, however encapsulating the entire TOC in a "box" and retaining the bold vertical line is helpful. Something like this in appearance is, IMHO, intuitive:

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/352270#Comment_352270

Hi Steve

Following a recent thread (http://community.logos.com/forums/t/47510.aspx)on deleting a notesfile containing highlights by mistake I wondered if it could be worth putting a warning about this in your section on deleting notes files (http://wiki.logos.com/Steve$27s_Temp_page2#Deleting_a_Note_File) The section really focuses on intentionally deleting a file and gives appropriate warnings - how about adding in something about deleting a notes file which one didn't remember creating but actually contains lots of highlights.

Also noted this section says that deleted notes files can't be recovered. Sometimes (as in the case in the thread referenced above) Logos Customer Services can recover them and it would be good to have this noted in this section.

Hope this is useful

Graham

Found a typo

[quote] ⁴ For your Note Indicator to show,

(a) you must have selected selected a Note Indicator for your note other than None.

Note that the word "selected" is repeated.

Still think this is superb

Also, in the hint just below this

[quote]Hint: when an image is fuzzy or too small, click on the image and your browser should show the image full size

(after viewing the image you may need to hit the Back button on your browser to return to the wiki page).

Perhaps you could mention the option of selecting "New Tab" or "New Window" from the right-click menu

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/352670#Comment_352670

While keeping TOC line wrapping, added alternate TOC format to wiki page for visual comparison, which does not have lines around every TOC entry (easy to shift a set of items from left column to right column). Noticed when a mouse hovers on a TOC line with wrapping, underling appears for both lines.

Right now one of my grandson's is in the hospital (i could use your prayers for him), i will take a closer look and think about it along with others who have commented on this in a few days. i am assisting my son & daughter-in-law with the other kids.

Saturday night, i left the page under construction as i am rewriting the Intro area to be for informative on each aspect of Note files.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/352763#Comment_352763

Following a recent thread (http://community.logos.com/forums/t/47510.aspx)on deleting a notesfile containing highlights by mistake I wondered if it could be worth putting a warning about this in your section on deleting notes files (http://wiki.logos.com/Steve$27s_Temp_page2#Deleting_a_Note_File) The section really focuses on intentionally deleting a file and gives appropriate warnings - how about adding in something about deleting a notes file which one didn't remember creating but actually contains lots of highlights.

Good idea Graham, will do in a few days

Also noted this section says that deleted notes files can't be recovered. Sometimes (as in the case in the thread referenced above) Logos Customer Services can recover them and it would be good to have this noted in this section.

Yes, i am aware of that (see Problem area, i noted the possibility there). Keep in mind this may not always be possible, depending on many circumstances (did they recreate the Note File and make changes and it sync'd, along with how many days have elapsed and how much they may have added to the recreated Note File. Plus other variation (tried to re-install, copied from backup, etc). So i thought best to put the worst case here to discourage deletion of files. Then i add the possibility in the Problem's area. It probably would be a good idea to add a short note and link to the problem item. If i remember some forum beta post correctly, Logos is in the process of adding some kind of recovery to L4 for the users.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/352798#Comment_352798

Thanks Jack for your time!

Found a typo

[quote] ⁴ For your Note Indicator to show,

(a) you must have selected selected a Note Indicator for your note other than None.

Note that the word "selected" is repeated.

You need to refresh your browser page, i changed this Saturday night (moved this table to the Intro section and deleted item 4). Thought this might save you some time if you were to check out the wiki further.

Thanks again!

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/352830#Comment_352830

Yes, i am aware of that (see Problem area, i noted the possibility there).

Sorry I missed that

So i thought best to put the worst case here to discourage deletion of files

Good plan

If i remember some forum beta post correctly, Logos is in the process of adding some kind of recovery to L4 for the users.

Yes - http://community.logos.com/forums/t/19890.aspx has the details

Graham

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/352823#Comment_352823

Right now one of my grandson's is in the hospital (i could use your prayers for him), i will take a closer look and think about it along with others who have commented on this in a few days. i am assisting my son & daughter-in-law with the other kids.

Steve, praying for you, your grandson and your family

Graham

JT (alabama24)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/352823#Comment_352823

Right now one of my grandson's is in the hospital (i could use your prayers for him), i will take a closer look and think about it along with others who have commented on this in a few days. i am assisting my son & daughter-in-law with the other kids.

Praying Steve!

BillS

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/352823#Comment_352823

Right now one of my grandson's is in the hospital

Praying...

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/352832#Comment_352832

You need to refresh your browser page

Good point. I have kept it open for a few days to save my place.

Praying for your grandson, and family

A note on Mac compatibility:

[quote] f) To jump to the hyperlink, hold the Ctrl key down and click on the link with your mouse. (Mac users: hold Cmd key down)

Alert this is reported as not working in the Mac yet.

Auto creation of Bible hyperlinks is not yet operational in L4M. Can be created by selecting the text and typing the reference into the link field. Cmd-click will jump to the Scripture reference.

THANK YOU for your abundant labor.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/352823#Comment_352823

Right now one of my grandson's is in the hospital (i could use your prayers for him), ... . i am assisting my son & daughter-in-law with the other kids.

Praying for God's Peace and Love to be with you, your family, and all involved. Thankful for God's perfect timing.

Keep Smiling [:)]

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/351978#Comment_351978

--> Would help to indicate where the action is performed under another heading or Method. #2 is not used for highlights.

Added column per your suggestion. Also rewrote the Intro to speak on each of these methods.

--> also show the Reference as that is not editable.

Added Reference item along with new image and descriptions.

--> again, this is confusing because you haven't yet talked about setting note indicators and styles. I would assume default settings and then talk about changing them.

Move this table up into the Intro (where it seemed to fit better with the descriptions). Also removed items that you suggested.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/354385#Comment_354385

For those who have been praying for my grandson, the hospital/doctors have isolated the problem to Colitis, which was causing bleeding and complete loss of appetite. They are scheduled to start a treatment in the next few days.

Thank You for your Prayers, they were/are much appreciated!

Dave Hooton

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/354385#Comment_354385

--> Would help to indicate where the action is performed under another heading or Method. #2 is not used for highlights.

Added column per your suggestion. Also rewrote the Intro to speak on each of these methods.

Thanks for making these changes, Steve. I have a comment regarding the Difference between Selection / Reference

As it is not discussing Highlighting (via the Tool) it would help to change that table heading to something like "Is text highlighted" and then remove or modify note 3 because even if you select text it is not highlighted when you use the Reference method, and the Visual Filter menu has no impact when you create an annotation; it also affects the viewing of Note Indicators.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/351992#Comment_351992

open an existing notefile is buried as second bullet under create a new notefile - no one will find this from the site's TOC. Imho, this should be a paragraph on its own with its own title

i created a new Heading: Opening an existing Note File

The hint was removed. (This is not in the TOC yet, but will be when i edit the TOC)

he following Hint may be helpful, but not on your page. All other hints refer to using the Notes feature - this one refers to using the wiki page (thus should be on the wiki main page, not here). I suggest removing it. If you feel there should be an advice like this, consider putting it on top of the page

The wiki Homepage would not be a good location. 1) Not all images in wiki pages will respond like the ones in this new wiki page. 2) Many users may never hit the wiki Homepage. So i added it to the top of the new wiki page (Steve's Temp page2) under the TOC. i had pondered on the location when i first added that hint and forgot to handle it.

he section on creating links to documents was at first rather confusing to me. Why should I paste a file location into the note, later copy it and then delete it?

Agreed, i created a new wiki page for a short tutorial on creating a Path/Filename. Removed mention and image to fit in with using this tutorial. http://wiki.logos.com/Creating_a_Full_Path_$26_Filename

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/354395#Comment_354395

As it is not discussing Highlighting (via the Tool) it would help to change that table heading to something like "Is text highlighted"

Added your heading text for that column

then remove or modify note 3 because even if you select text it is not highlighted when you use the Reference method, and the Visual Filter menu has no impact when you create an annotation; it also affects the viewing of Note Indicators.

Removed the footnote.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/352798#Comment_352798

Perhaps you could mention the option of selecting "New Tab" or "New Window" from the right-click menu

Good idea Jack! Done (see right under the TOC).

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/352763#Comment_352763

Following a recent thread (http://community.logos.com/forums/t/47510.aspx)on deleting a notesfile containing highlights by mistake I wondered if it could be worth putting a warning about this in your section on deleting notes files (http://wiki.logos.com/Steve$27s_Temp_page2#Deleting_a_Note_File) The section really focuses on intentionally deleting a file and gives appropriate warnings - how about adding in something about deleting a notes file which one didn't remember creating but actually contains lots of highlights.

Graham, i've added some Bold text to warn them, see Deleting a Note File

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/353017#Comment_353017

Auto creation of Bible hyperlinks is not yet operational in L4M. Can be created by selecting the text and typing the reference into the link field. Cmd-click will jump to the Scripture reference.

Jack, i added a work-around in that Alert: Creating a Link to your favorite Bible

EDIT: would it help to move the Alert before the first image in this subheading?

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/354436#Comment_354436

EDIT: would it help to move the Alert before the first image in this subheading?

It should probably be a bit more prominent than it presently is. Perhaps the suggested move would be the best way to accomplish this.

Pleased to hear about your grandson.