Slow Logos 4
Like many others, I have been annoyed with the speed (or lack
thereof) at which Logos 4 has run on my computer over the last week.
I'm ok with trying to re-learn how to use the program, but I'm not ok
with just how much slower the program runs. Yes, it is much faster when
doing an entire library search, but in Logos 3, I just didn't do a ton
of entire library searches--and my searches in collections (or Topic
Browser or Reference Browser) weren't that much slower than v4. Anyway,
I am really not meaning to be negative, but am looking for some
guidance. It appears that for some people, Logos 4 runs fine, and
wondered if there is something I can do to speed it up?
My system is an Acer Extensa 5430 laptop, with an AMD Athlon X2 dual
core processor running at 1.9 GHz (both cores together). Windows says I have 2
GB of RAM, though DirectX Diagnostics reports it at 1790 MB (I'm
assuming that means some of the RAM is being used as video memory). The
video card is an integrated Radeon HD3200. I'm running Vista Business
with all updates installed. The hard drive is 102 GB with 35.8 GB free
(5400 RPM, single partition, defragmented after install and indexing
and a couple times since just to make sure). AVG Free is also running,
though I have added the Logos4 folder to the exclusions list. All
resources have been downloaded, indexing is complete, and I have installed the SR's as they come out. Looking at the Task Manager with
Logos 4 running, it appears that Logos is the only thing that is really
using any resources--and that is mostly lots of CPU cycles.
None of the other programs I run are as sluggish as Logos 4. If
there is something within my setup that can be changed to fix the
problem, I'd be happy to do it (outside of upgrading the computer). If it's
something inherent to the program and can be fixed soon, I'll try to
wait it out, otherwise I may just try to get a refund and come back to
the program in a couple years when I'm able to get a faster computer.
Again, I don't mean to complain or be negative--I love my Logos
software (and rely heavily upon it)--but at the moment it is not
responsive enough for me to use all the time. Any help you can offer
would be appreciated. Thanks!
Comments
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It sounds like you've done what you should at this point. A small amount of your slow down could be the harddrive, 5400 is slow, but standard for Laptops.
From the sound of it, everything else should be able to handle L4 fairly well. The only possible concern would be the video card, but with 256MB dedicated, it's probably quite capable of handling the screen draws.
That said, Logos was designed for computers around 2yrs old and newer. Mine is beyond that and in some respects similar to your own. (AMD X2 +3800, 4GB RAM.) The ram on mine is higher and it has made a difference I think.
Still I'm not sure why L4 is sluggish for you. I know I'm not helping with tips and tricks here, just wanted to share my opinion on your hardware, and give you something to compare to. Perhaps someone else will be able to provide something you can use.
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I agree pretty much with Thomas, although I think 2mb of RAM is probably a bit light with shared video. I have 4mb and it runs well almost all the time.
You could also make sure your video drivers are up to date. Regular Windows updates don't do that. They are usually optional, so if you depend on automatic they may not be. Also check the Acer website for drivers.
Did you try shutting off Internet? Some have found that really helps: Downside you have to remember to update manually or turn it on from time to time and run Update Now.
Chris
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I haven't had a lot of time to play with it yet, but I notice that my notebook (Lenovo, 1.8Ghz duo 4GB XP) is very slow when rendering "real time" menus (such as opening the Library), whereas it's pretty much fine for normal browsing of open books, etc. It's a very pronounced difference, particularly typing characters or moving the mouse (I have to be very accurate to actually move the mouse to hit something). It must be whatever is rendering the "fly-out" menus, little pictures of books, etc. Is that likely to be a graphic card issue?
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By the way, I have an 8GB Quad-core I7 notebook on order. Will that be fast enough? Stay tuned...
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Rick Goettsche said:
My system is an Acer Extensa 5430 laptop, with an AMD Athlon X2 dual
core processor running at 1.9 GHz (both cores together). Windows says I have 2
GB of RAM, though DirectX Diagnostics reports it at 1790 MB (I'm
assuming that means some of the RAM is being used as video memory)I added 2GB of RAM to my laptop during the beta testing period. I have not struggled with slowness in 4.0 as much since. I don't know if that is because of additional RAM or because of the optimizations Logos did throughout the beta period. Logos did make real improvements in search speed during the beta period for less than whole library searches, which was a concern. My search times dropped ten-fold from early beta to late beta for one Bible only searches. It is still NOT as fast as in 3.0 but it is certainly acceptable.
I have noticed that I seem to routinely be using between 2.4 and 2.7 GB of physical RAM according to the Vista Performance Monitor with Logos 4 open. If I had only 2 GB of RAM or less then Vista would be using space on my HD for virtual memory which would slow down my system.
You might consider adding at least 1 GB of RAM to your computer. I can't guarantee it would help, but I wouldn't be surprised if you are using virtual memory on the same HD that Logos 4 is on for many operations, thereby slowing things down.
Pastor, North Park Baptist Church
Bridgeport, CT USA
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JeffreySGordon said:
By the way, I have an 8GB Quad-core I7 notebook on order. Will that be fast enough? Stay tuned...
I can't wait to hear the comparison. And not to beat a dead horse - but you'll find Win7 much more responsive than Vista.
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Thomas Black said:
but you'll find Win7 much more responsive than Vista.
That's because I'm a PC and Windows 7 was my idea. [:P]
Jacob Hantla
Pastor/Elder, Grace Bible Church
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Jacob Hantla said:Thomas Black said:
but you'll find Win7 much more responsive than Vista.
That's because I'm a PC and Windows 7 was my idea.
I think it is because we have bubble wrap and coffee mugs
Chris
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Thanks guys, I appreciate your help--and knowing that I'm not totally crazy. FYI, I update my video drivers religiously (well, that may be hyperbole, but they're up to date). I'll consider upgrading the RAM, it's not a crazy expensive (or difficult) upgrade, but I'm still hopeful that Logos will streamline the program some. Is that naive? Will Logos 4 actually get faster as time goes on, or is this pretty much what we can expect? If you have more ideas on things I could check, I'd be happy to hear them. It's also helpful to hear everyone else's experience on their systems, so keep that info coming!
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Rick Goettsche said:
Thanks guys, I appreciate your help--and knowing that I'm not totally crazy. FYI, I update my video drivers religiously (well, that may be hyperbole, but they're up to date). I'll consider upgrading the RAM, it's not a crazy expensive (or difficult) upgrade, but I'm still hopeful that Logos will streamline the program some. Is that naive? Will Logos 4 actually get faster as time goes on, or is this pretty much what we can expect? If you have more ideas on things I could check, I'd be happy to hear them. It's also helpful to hear everyone else's experience on their systems, so keep that info coming!
Well, we can only guess, but we can be really good at sounding like we know what we're talking about. So here goes:
The L4 engine is pretty much established. Don't expect anything to be taken away from it, in fact expect things to be added. It's possible future updates may make some things work faster, but don't expect that from the main interface. In fact, I think you can expect L4 to do more, meaning it will require more.
The L4 design is for computers 2years old or less. That means a lot of RAM, huge hard drives and (usually) a dedicated video driver (vs an integrated video). Think 'high-end' computer here; they're not just for gamers anymore.
But think about it, Logos needs to process huge amounts of data and present it in an appealing way that draws us deeper into Bible study. Doing that requires a lot of computing power (let alone cutting-edge program design and interface). Doing more (which is what everyone is asking for on these forums) will require even more power.
Help links: WIKI; Logos 6 FAQ. (Phil. 2:14, NIV)
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Richard, that's pretty much what I would have guessed, but I was still hopeful. My laptop is only a year old, and Logos 4 will at least run on it (my Dad couldn't even get it to run on his computer), but it definitely isn't ideal. I certainly understand being on the cutting edge, but in my experience, most pastors don't have the ability to buy gaming-level computers, which is why it surprises me that Logos would design a program that would require that. Maybe I am not seeing things clearly. Maybe more pastors have better computers than I would think, or maybe I'm missing something in my particular system--one way or another though, something doesn't make sense to me. With that said, I also know that just because something doesn't make sense to me, that doesn't mean that it doesn't make sense. Anyway, I'll give it another couple of weeks, since I have 30 days to exercise my refund request.
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Rick Goettsche said:
but in my experience, most pastors don't have the ability to buy gaming-level computers,
I can't tell you about most pastors, but I can tell you about me. I pastor a smallish church (60 folks on Sunday), in a rural area. I just spent a little less than $1500 on a new desktop, after using my last one for about 6 years. I figure that's a pretty good investment (about $250/yr, or a bit over $20/mo), and less than some folks spend on coffee -- at least here in the Pacific Northwest, and a lot less than a phone data plan through Verizon (which I refuse to get, thank-you very much). I figure that's a pretty good investment in a tool that saves me hours in research time, and a lot of money in books, thanks to Logos.
I know pastors who try to get by on much less computing power. Sometimes by financial necessity, more often by choice. I just don't think it's worth it. My time is more important to me than my money.
Help links: WIKI; Logos 6 FAQ. (Phil. 2:14, NIV)
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upgrading to 4GB of RAM shouldn't set you back more than $40-50 if you get it online (tigerdirect.com or newegg.com are both good in this respect) & install it yourself.
My laptop is a year old with 4GB and L4 runs quite well on it. It would probably be a nice investment.
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Rick you say that you are using vista business. it consumes a lot of memory. Increasing your ram, clearing out your browser cache, and changing Internet explorer "default 20 days" to see the websites you visited will certainly speed things up.
Listening to a lot of the problems that users are having installing and running L4, I am convinced that a good registry cleaner, or other software is needed to clean up the system.
Also do not install too much software on your machine. The more software, the slower it runs.
Mission: To serve God as He desires.
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In hopes that Logos will review posts like these to hear the Voice of the Customer
I like the layout of L4 and there are other features that i like as well.
My disappointments are:
As you can see with many posts, a lot of us are not running
newer high end computers (i know that our church cannot afford new PCs
at this time; i am just a lay person). Thus L4 runs slower on our
computers. As for me i cannot afford a new PC right now (along with 15
million others out here).There are several features that did not make it into L4 (i really
like the PRAs for quickly sequencing through Bibles or Commentaries).Layouts are not nearly as friendly as L3. It takes several drags and
drops along with trial and error to setup panes the way i like them.
This could easily be setup with fewer mouse clicks in L3 (L3 followed
standard Windows rules in setting up panes).And as you have mentioned, there is a learning curve.
Fortunately L3 is still running on my laptop. So i can run it when i
am out at Bible studies and need reasonable access times. And other
time during studies at home i can jump forward and use L4. (i probably
will not be able to use L4 on my desktop)i hope that perhaps Logos will be able to improve performance for
the many of us with older PCs (after all programmers can easily
determine the PC's speed and capabilities from within the program, i
know). I also hope that they will provide backward compatibility with
older features.God willing, i will be able to learn how to use L4 and continue to enjoy its many helps in understanding His Word.
my Laptop: Dell 1720 Inspiron 1.66G core 2 duo with 4Gig RAM, 250G HD, integrated onboard video, Vista Home Premium
my Desktop: AMD 2500, 1Gig RAM, 2ea 300Gig HD, Nvidia graphics card, Windows 2K OS
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Steve,
please do not post the same thing on multiple threads.
Next time, please start your own thread with your issues as above.
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steveclark said:
OK, just wanted a it on a couple of locations so that hopefully the staff at Logos could find it.
I know that there are a huge number of posts and they probably don't have time to review all of them.
There's more chance that they'll read a problem at the start of a thread (post number 1) than read post number whatever. But, as it turns out, I'm sure that they read every post (except that they filter out a couple of very annoying users like myself)
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I'm sure Dave L. hasn't blocked you us because of the comic relief we provide.Damian McGrath said:except that they filter out a couple of very annoying users like myself
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Thomas Black said:
I'm sure Dave L. hasn't blocked you us because of the comic relief we provide.
Thread hijacking again - but, the high point was really the Lasagne Daily Devotional. I'm very proud of that one....
Or maybe the Carebear
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Yeah, Sorry. Kind of.Damian McGrath said:Thread hijacking again
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JeffreySGordon said:
By the way, I have an 8GB Quad-core I7 notebook on order. Will that be fast enough? Stay tuned...
Definitely, so long as you stay plugged into a wall [:D]
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Rick, thanks for asking the question. I have a new desktop with 4 gb of RAM and a 640 GB hard drive. Unfortunately, Logos 4 runs really slow almost to the point that I, too, thought I'd made a mistake in the setup. While I understand all of the comments posted throughout the various blogs concerning this issue, hardware cannot be the only explaination. None of my other programs run as slow as Logos 4. I do hope that Logos is reading the various user concerns and is pro-active in finding a solution. From what I've seen thus far, I truly do believe this is the case. I'm hoping for future updates quickly. Have a blessed day!
Christina
iMac 27 inch, 3.1 GHz Core i5, 1T HD, 4 GB RAM
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Rev,
that sounds like it should be fine...see the specs in my sig...mine runs like a champ...
When you say "slow to the point of made a mistake" what operations are you performing that are like that?
be specific?
Robert Pavich
For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__
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As far as fast computers to run L4, the HP Envy should fit the bill. I know we should should not glorify 'envy', but this thing is aptly named and powerful, or sounds to be...
Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit
Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-720QM Processor (1.6GHz, 6MB L2 Cache, 1333MHz FSB) - this is a quad core processor (I'm sure many of you know this)
6GB DDR3 System Memory (3 Dimm)
1GB ATI Mobility Radeon(TM) HD 4830
500GB 7200 RPM SATA drive
15.6" diagonal Full High Definition LED HP Ultra Brightview Widescreen Display (1920x1080)
Intel Wireless-N Mini-card with BluetoothThe caveat is you have to buy an external optical drive- but that what gives it the room for all the other goodies
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I too find that Logos 4 is really slow. I've saved a few layouts, for different Bible passages that I'm working on, and with no searches or lookups being displayed by default on each layout (i.e. no passage being looked up for commentaries, cross-references, biblical people etc.), it takes one layout 5-8 seconds to change and another 15-20 seconds to change. This is sloooow, quite apart from lookup or search speed. But switching to the home page is virtually instant in comparison, taking about 1s to scroll up or down. And 3s or more to switch to reading mode (F11) is slow too, but is longer at 4-5s if I have Logos 4 maximised while it re-sizes up and down etc.
I'm using a less than two year old Dell Vostro 1710 laptop with Intel dual core T5870 @ 2.00 GHz, with 3Gb RAM, integrated Intel 965 graphics, 5400rpm 160GB HD with 40% free, recently defraged, and nothing else above a few percent in task manager when it is changing layouts, while Logos 4 stays up at 50% for the duration while it's changing layout. Shame it doesn't use both cores. I've also shutdown PC Tools' Spyware Doctor which has made no difference. And it stopped indexing several days ago. Regardless of the specs, Logos 3 was faster to use, apart from searching the whole library. Logos 4 is really great, but it tends to take a bit of the enthusiasm out of Bible study for me, and I have to be in a pretty laid back mood to not get a little frustrated with it sometimes. I also use some fast free software at the same time, for looking up passages.
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John Duffy said:
I've also shutdown PC Tools' Spyware Doctor which has made no difference. And it stopped indexing several days ago. Regardless of the specs, Logos 3 was faster to use, apart from searching the whole library. Logos 4 is really great, but it tends to take a bit of the enthusiasm out of Bible study for me, and I have to be in a pretty laid back mood to not get a little frustrated with it sometimes. I also use some fast free software at the same time, for looking up passages.
"Free software"? Which ones. Right away I raise a red flag. Are you certain it is not killing your bandwidth and as a result your CPU sending and receiving info based on what you are doing?
It took my machine about 15-20 seconds to pull up this layout. Sounds like an average amount of time to me. If you need it to go faster, then invest in a digital harddrive. If you do, remeber to put on your seat belt, before turning on the computer.
Mission: To serve God as He desires.
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SSD drive with this layout...and all of the highlighting...4 seconds...
Robert Pavich
For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__
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Lynden Williams said:
"Free software"? Which ones. Right away I raise a red flag. Are you certain it is not killing your bandwidth and as a result your CPU sending and receiving info based on what you are doing?
It took my machine about 15-20 seconds to pull up this layout. Sounds like an average amount of time to me. If you need it to go faster, then invest in a digital harddrive. If you do, remeber to put on your seat belt, before turning on the computer.
Lynden, at the time of testing how long it took for layouts to come up, I didn't have anything else open apart from Outlook. Also, the free software I use (e-Sword, mainly to develop a free non-English resource for outreach purposes) doesn't send and receive info or hog bandwidth or CPU usage when it's idle and I'm not using it actively. I find that it's useful sometimes to have a second program on a second monitor for just jumping around the Bible without disturbing my position in Logos. But now that I can do that with a floating window, I might change how I do that.
But it's not the hard drive which is the issue. It's hardly flashing. It is the CPU activity which is the limiting factor (which I always see at the bottom right of the screen). My layout below doesn't seem much different to yours too, hence the similar timing. Maybe in general I'm used to software taking about 5s max to do something minor, unless it is searching etc. Am I applying that rule unfairly to Logos 4? But it could be my integrated graphics that are the limiting factor, as that might make the CPU slow down - I'm not sure. It's just slower than I'm used to compared to other software that I use. But don't get me wrong, it's the best software for Bible and theological study that I've seen - I still love it.
Wow, I hadn't heard of solid state drives before, at least in the last twenty years. The first time I came across them was back in the mid 80's when I decided not to go for the ultra-expensive 256kB solid state drive option for my first computer. Instead, I opted for the deluxe dual 5" floppy drives (instead of the standard single drive) for my CP/M 2.2 operating system (which predated DOS). SSD will certainly speed some things up - I think that I'll wait until the prices drop further and in the meantime skip the option of a 7600rpm drive for my laptop.
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