Bring Logos Bible Software into the Mac App Store Ecosystem!
This software is awesome. But you guys should be the first excellent Bible software company to leverage the (relatively) newly created Mac App store ecosystem for your product's lifecycle development!
Imagine how seamless your UI would look! Image how easily software updates would be! Imagine how easy software upgrades would be with the in-app purchasing system!?!?
Please please tell me - are you guys thinking about this? It could BE HUGE. Especially since 99.9999 percent of all Youth Pastors (like myself) and future Senior Pastors and scholars will be running Macs...get on the Mac App Store Gravy Train now!
Thoughts? Is it coming? Just give me a hint of hope - it's all I need.
Comments
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Brian said:
This software is awesome.
Welcome [:D]
+1 [Y] concur with Logos 4 being awesome on Mac and PC along with software being free plus pay once so can use resources on a variety of personal devices. Caveat: due to various publisher agreements, a number of resources are not available for mobile use. Personally Thankful for 89.8 % of my Logos library being available for mobile use.
Thankful for many friendly forum discussions about using Logos Bible Software and resources, primarily with other Logos users.
Brian said:Imagine how easy software upgrades would be with the in-app purchasing system!?!?
Considering current Logos iOS app experience (delays) with Apple's App store review and approval process, suspect Mac App Store lacks luster for Logos 4 Mac distribution. Looking at wiki => Mac Release Notes and History noticed 28 stable Logos 4 Mac releases since 1 Mar 2011 when Logos combined Logos 4 releases for Mac and PC.
From a business perspective, if Logos were to add in-app purchasing, would anticipate price increase since Apple charges 30 % for processing in-app purchases so $ 100 to Logos for resource purchases would need Logos users to pay $ 142.85, which is unattractive.
If Logos does not add in-app purchasing, then would anticipate Logos 4 Mac distribution through Mac App Store having the same restriction as iOS app that cannot have news items about Logos sale and pre-publication items.
Keep Smiling [:)]
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Brian - Welcome to the forums!
Question: What does Logos 4 being in the Mac App store have to do with a "seamless" UI?
Brian said:Image how easily software updates would be!
They wouldn't. Anytime Logos made a change, it would have to go through Apple. In case you are not aware, one of the delays in the 2.1 release of the mobile app is that Apple rejected it.
macOS, iOS & iPadOS |Logs| Install
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Seamless UI - essentially, I think it would improve the overall look and feel of your application's user interface. But I don't have a problem admitting I might be wrong about this assumption. I don't know what all is in the Mac App Store's SDK compared to what you build the app in now. I just assume the developer toolkit has better built in IU standards that we as Mac users are more accustomed to using and seeing (better buttons, forms, fields, etc.) Again - it's likely I'm wrong about that.
Longer update time: Why was the app rejected? Maybe it was rejected for a good reason? Improve your QA testing?
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I'm probably in the minority (small/tiny minority) when I say I'm okay with the price increase in exchange for the integration.
I'm a pastor not a developer - and by my own admission - a mindless/blind Apple fanboy who thinks everything they do is infallible. But I just wanted to see what your dev team was thinking in this space. And what your direction might be.
From a business standpoint - your exposure - I THINK - would make up for the lost margins. The Mac Apps store is only JUST beginning to get legs. Wait until the new security updates that will come in the next update to OS Mountain Lion "Gatekeeper." I would get into the App Store before your competition does. Mindless fanboys like me will start buying them simply for that reason alone...don't miss the gravy train.
Love you guys and your work - keep it up!
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Brain - I don't know anything about the "Mac App Store's SDK," but many of us agree that we would like a more "Mac like" experience. Having the app in the store is unrelated.
Brian said:Longer update time: Why was the app rejected? Maybe it was rejected for a good reason?
As I am not a Logos employee, I am not privilege to that info. I think (part of) it was related to "advertisement" on the mobile app homepage. Apple is picky about trying to get a 30% cut. Logos bypasses that system altogether.
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Brian said:
I would get into the App Store before your competition does. Mindless fanboys like me will start buying them simply for that reason alone...don't miss the gravy train.
I am a Mac "fanboy" too… but your exuberance needs to be tempered a little. [:P]
Mac still only has about a 10% share of the market. Most Logos users are Windows users, although the Mac market is growing very fast.
macOS, iOS & iPadOS |Logs| Install
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Brian said:
Seamless UI - essentially, I think it would improve the overall look and feel of your application's user interface. But I don't have a problem admitting I might be wrong about this assumption. I don't know what all is in the Mac App Store's SDK compared to what you build the app in now. I just assume the developer toolkit has better built in IU standards that we as Mac users are more accustomed to using and seeing (better buttons, forms, fields, etc.) Again - it's likely I'm wrong about that.
Please elaborate about desired Logos 4 Mac user interface (UI) improvements.
Logos developers use Apple's XCode development environment for Logos 4 UI interaction, which has some unique user interface conventions that are neither Mac nor Windows (Files, Guides, and Layouts quickly come to mind). Personally Thankful that Logos 4 does behave consistently on Mac and PC; easy to switch platforms.
Thread => OS X Lion, Open CL and Logos 4 includes desires by a number of Mac users (e.g. page 6 ) for an application that implements Apple's Human Interface Guidelines (HIG) better along with an application that consistently works, which would be more Mac like.
By the way, this thread currently has Logos user replies; employees have a blue Logos logo under their avatar.
alabama24 said:Mac still only has about a 10% share of the market. Most Logos users are Windows users, although the Mac market is growing very fast.
Anticipating market share to grow a bit more after Apple refreshes Mac models later this year.
A year ago, Mac market share was higher than 10 % in some regions => http://osxdaily.com/2011/03/18/mac-market-share-around-the-world-usa-15-canada-14-australia-14-and-more/
For businesses, recent article shows 10.8 % Mac share (along with more growth than PC's in past few months) => http://www.trickmaker.com/2012/04/mac-vs-pc-in-market-share-and-social.html
Keep Smiling [:)]
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Let's see:
- Instead of getting the updates automatically downloaded directly into the software, you want me to have to log in to the Mac App Store and search around there to get them?
- Instead of getting desperately needed improvements directly when the dev team is finally ready to release them, you want me to have to wait a couple of weeks or more while Apple does a review?
- Instead of mailing my sales rep and getting a discount, you want me to buy from the App Store at a premium?
Forgive me, but that doesn't sound very appealing to me... It sounds like a definite change for the worse. But maybe I don't understand what you're saying.
I do agree the UI needs some work, but as has already been said, that has nothing to do with the App Store. More with the fact that they can't find proper Mac devs to hire.
Mac Pro (late 2013) OS 12.6.2
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fgh said:
Instead of getting the updates automatically downloaded directly into the software, you want me to have to log in to the Mac App Store and search around there to get them?I agree with your sentiments except the one quoted. Updates to programs from the App Store don't require you to search around. If an update is available it just shows up under the updates section when you open the App Store program. Obviously that would require one to open up the App Store which is itself a second step to getting an update for an app that gets updates automatically anyway, so it would be a net loss for time.
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Thanks to everyone for chiming in on this. I apologize for coming off a little over-eager and misguided (all probably true). I sincerely appreciate all of your insight and it's all well substantiated.
Honestly, the whole 10% marketshare thing is the dying mantra of a previous generation. I'm not saying the war is already won - Windows 8 could get legs - especially if they find a way to get it talking to their Windows Mobile OS better.
BUT honestly, the next generation of consumers are now only a decade or so from being the senior leaders of organizations around the world (i.e. the Enterprise market that Windows has a stranglehold on). And the next generation of consumers have overwhelmingly chosen Mac over Windows. It will be their prerogative to begin implementing their preference (Mac) into the enterprise markets that they will inevitably CEOs and leaders of.
And so all I'm saying is that if you want to be better prepared for the future, get your products into the Mac App Store before someone else does. (Again, read up on Gatekeeper and developer digital signatures and IDs.) I sincerely believe you could limit your exposure by relying entirely on WOM marketing, SEO/SEM, or Sales Reps. Being in the App store may eliminate the need for some of that overhead (more exposure) and restore the margins that you are so concerned about with the 30% Apple-cut.
Again - it's all pretty abstract without a lot of tangible proof - I'm just reading the signs of the times and saying that the next generation of leaders in Microsoft-dominate enterprise market will be all the rich kids with Macs now at home. Inevitably they will want Macs at their companies - Apple will be ready to sell them. And by then the tire "10%" marketshare thing will be Microsoft's lot for not adopting the integrated hardware-software business model (a whole other reason I think Mac will win).
All of this hinges on Google continuing to flounder or be indecisive about their (relatively) newfound success in the Mobile OS space...
I'm not saying Apple world dominance is inevitable...just keep an eye on it
I want Logos to be around for the long haul.Thanks for all the feedback! Have a great weekend!
PS - Here's some stats if we're going to get excited about stats:
91% marketshare of $1000+ computers purchased in June 2009 (a microcosm I think?)
#1 in semiconductor purchases? Apple
Almsot at Microsoft in Market Cap...
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I just rethought my 91% marketshare of $1000 computer sales in June 2009...it doesn't help my case as much as I thought it did 1 minute ago...it may actually hurt it. Whatevs.
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Brian said:
I just rethought my 91% marketshare of $1000 computer sales in June 2009...it doesn't help my case as much as I thought it did 1 minute ago...it may actually hurt it. Whatevs.
The majority of Pastor's don't make much money and cheaper computers are a strong pull. When you stick around these forums a bit more, you will find that there are many people who look down on us for spending so much money on a computer.
I also agree that there is strong momentum in the Mac direction... but look at it this way: a 200% increase in market share over five years would be breathtaking. It would still only be 30% of the market. Apple will not make MAJOR inroads until they produce computers under $500. Perhaps at some point they will take the Mac Mini more seriously, but until then...
[A Mac Mini at $350 would see dramatic increases to market share].
macOS, iOS & iPadOS |Logs| Install
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Brian said:
BUT honestly, the next generation of consumers are now only a decade or so from being the senior leaders of organizations around the world (i.e. the Enterprise market that Windows has a stranglehold on). And the next generation of consumers have overwhelmingly chosen Mac over Windows. It will be their prerogative to begin implementing their preference (Mac) into the enterprise markets that they will inevitably CEOs and leaders of.
Apple's iOS devices (iPhone and iPad) are already influencing enterprise purchasing decisions => http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/12/01/26/half_of_the_enterprise_is_issuing_macs_21_of_workers_use_apple_products.html
Personally looking to Logos iOS app improvements; wondering when iOS app can rival Logos 4 on Mac and PC ? mobile device capabilities are improving.
With the vast majority of Apple's revenue already coming from iOS devices, wonder about future for Mac models ? => http://a2mac.org/2012/02/apple-financial-report-for-q1-2012/ (especially desktop Mac models that are becoming irrelevant to Apple revenues since many more laptops are sold than desktops) For ultrabook hardware, Apple refurbished MacBook Air models currently offer best bargain => http://store.apple.com/us/browse/home/specialdeals/mac/macbook_air If was buying for Logos 4 use (Mac or PC), suggest July 2011 model with 4 GB of RAM. Anticipating refurbished price drop after MacBook Air model refreshes later this year (perhaps within weeks).
Looking forward to Apple's quarterly financial report on Tue 24 Apr 2012 => http://investor.apple.com/
Keep Smiling [:)]
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Alabama - couldn't agree more - Apple would make more waves if they built a niche market Mac.
But according to Jobs in a 2010 fiscal earnings report - Apple is never interested in market share. They are interested in one thing: building the best possible computing device, phone, tablet, etc. Even if it is expensive. Just like Rolls Royce: tiny marketshare because it's not their goal. Perhaps that will always hold Apple back?
Then again, Cook is driving now...maybe he had different aspirations for Apple...
Keep Smiling - interesting thought. I think Apple will always stay in the Laptop/Ultrabook business - and possibly even desktop (iMac) business. They keep pushing their pro tools for video production - I assume they'll want to keep building hardware that can rock in that space. And to quote Jobs: (paraphrased) "Desktops and laptops will always be around, just like pick-up trucks never went away when small,economical cars started growing. You'll always have pick up trucks (desktops) for their purposes, but most people will eventually find they get most things done on a tablet or mobile device just find."
Or something like that...
Thanks for the engaging conversation on my day off. It was fun!
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I'm more than happy that Apple is big enough to make a profit and produce the products I desire. However, I don't want Apple to have a major market share. That just means they become a larger target for hackers and malware creators. In my opinion, Apple increasing in popularity will affect me as a consumer negatively.
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Josh - I picking up what you're laying down. It is nice being in the "10%" and off the radar of spam-makers.
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Josh said:
I don't want Apple to have a major market share. That just means they become a larger target for hackers and malware creators.
That is already beginning to happen more and more. Two recent news stories about malware attacks on Macs:
Sabpab Trojan: Mac Users Have Another Foe To Look Out For
Apple Vows To Fight Flashback Virus, Mac Users Receive Wake-Up Call
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Rosie Perera said:Josh said:
I don't want Apple to have a major market share. That just means they become a larger target for hackers and malware creators.
That is already beginning to happen more and more. Two recent news stories about malware attacks on Macs:
Sabpab Trojan: Mac Users Have Another Foe To Look Out For
Apple Vows To Fight Flashback Virus, Mac Users Receive Wake-Up Call
Appears Apple's security update for Java is effective => http://www.macnn.com/articles/12/04/18/now.under.100000.units.falling.fast/
Spooky part about java exploit is visiting a web site with java malware can result in an infected computer without user interaction; personally have disabled Java in Safari along with using NoScript in Firefox (to block java use by most web sites).
OS X Daily has several OS X security tips to consider => http://osxdaily.com/2012/04/07/tips-secure-mac-from-virus-trojan/
Keep Smiling [:)]
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The whole Apple store is utterly unessential to Logos 4. Logos is operating as its own store now to the greatest extent. Exposure on Apple's store is nice, but simply bottlenecks something that works fine.
I understand that another bible software company is trying out the Apple App store. I don't see much need for it other than tablet/phone apps. Logos 4 is already making excellent use of a well developed updating platform.
The mind of man is the mill of God, not to grind chaff, but wheat. Thomas Manton | Study hard, for the well is deep, and our brains are shallow. Richard Baxter
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Brian said:
Wait until the new security updates that will come in the next update to OS Mountain Lion "Gatekeeper."
Apple has Gatekeeper security information => http://www.apple.com/macosx/mountain-lion/security.html
Suspect Logos has/will investigate being an identified developer that adds a digital signature to the Logos application for Mac to use on OS X 10.8
Starting June 1, Apple requires applications submitted to Apple's App Store to implement sandboxing. Likewise noted OS X Lion 10.7.3 has new sandboxing entitlements, which has potential for applications that have implemented sandboxing to need OS X 10.7.3 or newer.
After looking a bit at Apple's App Sandbox Design Guide, noticed absolute path to Logos4 folder would change if sandboxing is implemented, which affects diagnostic log file handling. For Logos, wonder about a program setting for enabling/disabling diagnostic logging ?
Wonder about Logos 5 implementing sandboxing along with 64 bit addressing plus requiring OS X Lion 10.7.3 or newer ?
Keep Smiling [:)]
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