So long Logos4...

I have finally come to the end of the road with Logos4. What started as affection for Logos2/3 has descended into a deep hatred for Logos4. Logos4 is a door to a gray building without a buzzer or door handle and a welcome mat the reads "Go away, I'm busy".

Logos treat their users as morons or clairvoyants:

As morons: I cannot be trusted to download the whole installer - every time I need to run it, it re-downloads 57M. This is not an issue one or twice, but once it has done this more than a dozen times, my blood boils over! Logos4 decided to do an update (recommended) last week, and part way through, the update crashed. Subsequently running Logos 4 resulted in a "you cannot downgrade Logos" error. What? I am not downgrading anything - Logos4 screwed this up - not me! So I run the setup to repair (and what-do-you-know, 57M download again!). This also failed. Then I ran the setup to remove and start over - 57MB download again!! Managed to uninstall. Then I run the setup to start over - another 57M download!! At this point I have lost my @#*&$%@ sense of humour. Finally get it installed, and guess what? It wants to download 9.5GB of resources (again!!!) I think this is the 7th time this year Logos4 has re-downloaded 9.5GB of resources. And I can see the files - my resource folder has 11.7GB of resources in 3,850 files, but Logos4 obstinately refuses to recognize them. Why Logos bother to supply a DVD is beyond me - it has never used it!! Logos4 has some ridiculous logic for downloading resources: I logged on as a different user, 9.5GB download! I upgraded to Windows 7, 9.5GB download! I upgraded the domain controller, 9.5GB download! Do they think bandwidth grows on trees? Do they think bandwidth is for free? Will they un-blacklist me when my ISP bans me for abusing the fair-use policy? Their programmers obviously suffer from that peculiar American disease that bandwidth is infinite and free.

Do they think that they can waste days of my time because their software has something better to do? I tried to prepare something for a home group study recently only to find Logos4 started with "Preparing Library". Then it started its 9.5GB download rubbish again! When I cancelled the download, Logos4 evaporated - no way start the application without the download. So at that point, Logos4 was 10 hours away from being usable - "Go away, I'm busy"! I may as well toss the DVD in the bin, because it wont use it!

As clairvoyants: What used to be on a menu is now a command you must remember or suck out your thumb or do an internet search for. I downloaded one of the free books recently, only to discover it was already in my library. No problem - just remove duplicate resources right? I know there was a menu item in Logo2/3 to do this, but now you have to be a clairvoyant to guess a suitable command. Would you believe there was no match in the entire library search for "remove duplicate"? In Logo2/3, if I has to search every menu item, I could find it inside a minute.

I tried to get into studying with Logo4 and discovered I could not save my desktop. I know in Logos2/3 I could select this from the Save Workspace in the File menu - rather obvious. After extreme frustration with the layouts, I eventually discovered the pencil icon. Right-click a layout has a "Load", but there is no obvious "Save". In effect, a save is a rename of a snapshot, but there is no way to make a new snapshot. So saving the workspace consists of identifying some victim snapshot, updating to current, and then renaming! Which moron thought that was a good idea??? And once it is saved, where is it? How do I send it to someone else? Oh "File->Save As", what have they done to you?

I finally got to the point where I had to write this down. I wanted to verify the facts, but surprise, surprise when I start Logo4, it wanted to download the 9.5GB again. And I can see all 3,850 files!!!!!!!!!!!!! If I cancel the download, the application evaporates! So I am 10 hours away (at least) from being able to even start the application. And at this point I may very well flush hundreds (if not thousands) of dollars investment down the toilet.

[Many, many hours later...]

Against my express wishes, Logos4 downloaded the 9.5GB anyway. At least I could verify my facts.

Sorry Logos, but this is both the most expensive and the worst software in my collection. It is so bad, Logo4 occupies all 10 positions of my worst 10 software suites!!

So long... I am off to find another suite.

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Comments

Lynden O. Williams

Sorry to hear about your unpleasant experience Andrew. Why don't you give tech support a call. Something is obvious happening which the rest of us are not experiencing.

Room4more

Andrew, can you give me a few minutes? thanks.

John Sheeley

Andrew,

Not denying you have some frustrations, but I've been using Logos 4 for over two years on the same laptop (Toshiba) and haven't experienced on single download error, or any other error for that matter. Everyone I have personal contact with (other seminary students and pastors) who have Logos 4 love it as much as I do and not one of them has ever complained about problems anywhere remotely like yours. Come to think of it, none of them have ever expressed anything but good things about the software and it's helpfulness. Honestly, for the price I've put into it, Logos has gone way above my expectations. Sure there are quirks to the system (i.e., commands I don't know) but none of them has ever hindered my use.

And it sure beats moving boxes of books from my house to my office library!

Hope you get the issues worked out before giving up.

Room4more

Andrew,

I would like the opportunity to address your issues, if you will allow me, and, hopefully curb some resentment that are expressing. Thank-you.

As a longtime user, dating back quite some years, I can attest to some of your issues. Yet, if allowed, I don’t understand what you are trying to tell us. Please let me explain. There have been issues of downloading problems in the past, and some current, but most have been resolved and the users are running the software. Which, is subject to your particular system, such as bandwidth, processor speed, available hard drive capacity, etc., etc.The continuance of the 57m, is partially due to - it never finished; afterwards you give the impression that eventually did or it would not have initiated the 9.5gb of resources. Although you may have 11.7 gb, there may have been updates to your current resources that you were not aware of, thus the lower gb download.

Logged in as a different user; are you meaning that you have ‘two’ accounts that are identical? Logged in where? This doesn’t make sense, sorry, I am just reading what you are stating, If I am incorrect then would you be so kind as to clarify for me.....because if the ‘two’ logins are identical, and on the same system you are using, there would not be another download of 9.5gb, because the L4 would see that everything is up to date.

Using Win 7. I get the impression that you were using winXP, possibly, prior to the upgrade. The upgrade, would require another additional setup of L4 since the filing system is slightly different, and there is a definite difference of OS Platform’s between the two programs. Also, in defining upgrade, was it a new machine or just an upgrade of the exiting OS to Win7?

You speak of bandwidth as though you are not from America, which may be causing a slight issue with the updating of the L4 program. Really I do not know for sure, just going with what you are saying.....L4 has the option to run “off line” but as soon as you change it to “on line” it will initiate a download if it see’s that one is available to bring everything up to date, this includes resources as well. So maybe the programmers can do something, I do not know but it never hurts to ask.....

The preparing Library is a common thing, again you are referring back to the download of 9.5gb. Which seems to be an update of the program. Again, just going with your words.

As clairvoyants: the command structure was rebuilt, yes. It took me a spell to get it into my stubborn already know how to do it brain, as well as possibly many others. Doing an internet search does not apply to L4, that is an independent function, unless you are referring to the Perseus look-up. As for the free-book, if you already had it in L4, it will not let you ‘re-download it”, unless you deleted the resources from the library. I have never been able to accomplish a “duplicate resources” in L4. As for commands, they are still the same and some extras have been added, there is a wiki page that has them listed, you can print it out for further need.

There is no need to “save a desktop” in L4, it was changed to ‘Layout’ and can be easily accessed by the dropdown from the ‘Layouts’ tab on the far right of the program.

As to your other comments, I would recommend the wiki pages which cam be found at the top of your screen as you read this reply. Just click “wiki” and you will be re-directed to it. It has a ‘table of contents [TOC]’ and also a search engine on the left that you can type in a command or something that you are having difficulties getting done....

Hopefully you will reconsider the usage of L4 and discover that there is a vast opportunity for discovery....

Hope this helps. R4m.

DMB

Andrew, Andrew, Andrew ... you sound so 'deja vu'. Could it be a day in late October 2009?

I'm Libronix through and through, due to all (and more) of the issues you bring up. I've no real issue with Logos4 ... I kind of giggle at all the users that willingly pay premium prices, watch all the downloads, indexing, crashing and who knows what. I'm not trying to bad-mouth Logos per se, but I wouldn't dream of recommending it to anyone at church. Pay high prices? Better buy a big computer? Better be REALLY patient? Oh, and ... better read the forums/wiki regularly since there's no manual and they don't willingly communicate what they're doing.

And actually I think Bob's vision is absolutely great (a church that can share Bible study, worship processes, etc). It's just that somewhere along the line 'the user' isn't a big player in the development process.

Now, it's not limited to Logos4. Yesterday, my spiffy imaging software crashed just about every 3 minutes, it was so unstable. Eventually I went in the bedroom, got the old version, and installed it. My language software is so 'broken' (it's quite similar to Logos4 in being slow). But they're so 'license' oriented and can't get their servers to work reliably I finally just gave up. Wasted some money but so it goes. My new Sibelius software works great; it's just the software samples are terrible (they saved money), so instead I search the web to see if I can get the older version.

My new policy after Logos4 and the rest of them is 'no new Windows software'. The developers can't handle Windows programming any more.

Bill Moore

Perhaps I am living in some sort of sweet dream world, but I've never experienced these nightmares. I run L4 on a 2.5 year old Lenovo ThinkPad T500 with Windows 7 and very slow DSL but everything seems to run well. Were I to be plagued with such problems, I suspect I would be as upset, but it seems as though something is going on outside of L4.

Dave Hooton

I think this is the 7th time this year Logos4 has re-downloaded 9.5GB of resources. And I can see the files - my resource folder has 11.7GB of resources in 3,850 files, but Logos4 obstinately refuses to recognize them.

Andrew, Logos can be difficult when it comes to fixing installation problems, especially from a DVD, but you could have requested assistance in this forum and we would likely have fixed it eg. to stop unsolicited downloads you go to Tools | Program Settings and change Automatically Download Updates to NO. Also you can use existing resources if you back them up before uninstalling.

The DVD could install an old version of Logos 4 that is not compatible with the current "cloud" system and have older versions of resources that need updating; hence the large 9.5 GB download.

To give you an idea of a possible recovery using your downloaded resources see Method 3 at http://wiki.logos.com/Quick_Installation_onto_multiple_computers

Randall Hartman

Good-bye!

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :)

So long... I am off to find another suite.

Welcome [:D] to the Logos Bible Software forums.

Currently this forum thread has responses from Logos users. Logos employees have a blue logo.

One option is email or call Logos => http://www.logos.com/about/contact with reference to this thread.

Wiki has => Quick Installation onto multiple computers that notes custom installation has option to uncheck automatic downloads. Also has steps to scan so one Logos 4 installation can copy resource files from another, then index.

Wiki Getting Started with Logos has => Installation + Indexing and => Layouts (after a snapshot has been named, then can right click on name in Layouts menu for option: "Update to current snapshot"). Logos 4 has four menus with right click options: File, Guides, Tools, and Layouts.

Thankful that Libronix 3 and Logos 4 can peacefully coexist on a computer. Libronix 3 installs once for all users plus allows locked resource files to be present. Logos 4 installs for each computer user, resources folder has unlocked and unhidden resources. Wiki has Hiding Books so can remove resource(s) from local Logos 4 library that you do not want to use.

For original language study, have read about a couple software packages (Accordance and BibleWorks) being a bit faster than Logos 4. For a digital library, Logos currently has ~ 22,000 resources available (with free maintenance for fixing typo's) => http://blog.logos.com/2012/05/behind-the-scenes-what-happens-when-your-book-gets-updated/ plus Vyrso has 5,745 eBooks (today show 12 titles for $ 0.00) that can be used in Logos 4 and mobile devices. Personally find Logos 4 library management easier for thousands of resources than TheWord, which has a few thousand resources available (many free).

My favorite Logos 4 feature is Logos Greek Morphology visual filter highlighting so can see range of verbal expression in Greek and English Bibles, which have appropriate morphological tagging. Wiki Extended Tips for Visual Filters has => Examples of visual filters with a screen shot showing highlighting palette and 5 Logos Greek Morphology visual filter definitions. Caveat: creating highlighting palette and visual filter definitions took awhile.

Thankful for many friendly forum discussions about Logos Bible Software: have learned a lot plus have a lot to learn. Wiki Getting Started with Logos => Learning Logos includes:

Tip: Becoming proficient with Logos 4 features and capabilities takes months of use – practice and perseverance produces powerful results.

Keep Smiling [:)]

DominicM

57M download!! At this point I have lost my @#*&$%@ sense of humour.

I can relate, I use the method in the wiki to avoid the downloading, I choose to reindex, but thats just me..

There are faster ways (avoiding big downloads) just unsupported by Logos.

http://wiki.logos.com/Quick_Installation_onto_multiple_computers

As clairvoyants: What used to be on a menu is now a command you must remember or suck out your thumb or do an internet search for. I downloaded one of the free books recently, only to discover it was already in my library. No problem - just remove duplicate resources right? I know there was a menu item in Logo2/3 to do this, but now you have to be a clairvoyant to guess a suitable command. Would you believe there was no match in the entire library search for "remove duplicate"? In Logo2/3, if I has to search every menu item, I could find it inside a minute.

If you had up-todate version in L4 it should not download, only if there was an update

I tried to get into studying with Logo4 and discovered I could not save my desktop. I know in Logos2/3 I could select this from the Save Workspace in the File menu - rather obvious. After extreme frustration with the layouts, I eventually discovered the pencil icon. Right-click a layout has a "Load", but there is no obvious "Save". In effect, a save is a rename of a snapshot, but there is no way to make a new snapshot. So saving the workspace consists of identifying some victim snapshot, updating to current, and then renaming! Which moron thought that was a good idea??? And once it is saved, where is it? How do I send it to someone else? Oh "File->Save As", what have they done to you?

Chick on pencil next to snapshot and time - it will add it to the menu on the Left hand side

So long... I am off to find another suite.

Sorry to see you go.. did you ask in forum, we always try to help..

Jon Kaer

Hi Andrew,

I sincerely apologize for the difficulty you are encountering with Logos 4. Please call us at Customer Support. We would be happy to look into the issues that you are describing.

It sounds like you may be outside the United States. If you are in the UK you can try calling us at 0871-218-1700, Monday through Friday, between 2pm and 1am BST. An alternative would be to send us an email at customerservice@logos.com with a phone number and a time we should try to reach you.

Thank you and we look forward to assisting you.

Donovan R. Palmer

The 9.5GB download thing made me laugh because I understood his pain. I've never experienced repetitive downloads like the OP, but I've said it more than once that Logos 4 uses bandwidth like a Hummer uses petrol. You only really notice this if you live in a rural area in the US or somewhere in a majority world nation.

tom

It's just that somewhere along the line 'the user' isn't a big player in the development process.

[Y]

BillS

Logos 4 uses bandwidth like a Hummer uses petrol.

[Y]

Phil Jagger

It saddens me to see people simply dismiss Andrews comments with a carte blanche "I've been using Logos 4 for years now and I have not had any problems". Obviously like me, Andrew has been a very long standing patron of the Logos software going back many many years and his experiences are genuine and echoed by many other users including myself.

The only thing I like about the Logos 4 interface is the nice metatag graphics. Beyong this it is DEFINITELY LESS user-friendly compared to the Libronix software (which doesn't look half as good). Taking away the user's choice as to where they want to their resources to reside (including on a network drive) is a huge step backwards for people like Andrew and myself who's home network (an increasingly more common scenario in the modern household with media sharing etc) is NOT catered for in the locked down installation process offered now by this frustrating software.

Logos 4 support team, (and basic stand alone users), STOP throwing platitudes to people such as Andrew or before you know it, you will be dead in the water wandering where your customers went.

Is it possible amid a sea of people admiring the fine clothes of the Emperor as he rides down the street on his horse that Andrew is one of only a few handful of people to actually be honest about the fact that the Emperor is stark butt naked?

Saying i'ts fine when in fact it's not does Logos 4 absolutely NO favours.

Phil

MJ. Smith

Phil, welcome to the forums - even if you are a long term user it appears that you're new to the forums. It's my observation that users have very different ways that they use Logos and different tasks they wish to complete. I suspect that the range "I've had no problems" to "this belongs in the trash can" are all honest responses to Logos 4. It is sometimes helpful to be reminded that other views exist - regardless of which extreme matches your experience. And it is true that some frustrated users learn to like Logos 4 ... others revert to Libronix 3. Only the OP after a few months can tell us which group he belongs to.

Phil Jagger

Thanks for your response MJ.

My point about responses is that it is rather glib to respond to people's complaint with "I've had no problems" This sort of response is inane and unhelpful.

Beyond this it appears to me that Logos 4 whilst catering for what they perceive to be a majority are going totally against the growing home network environment where media and resources are shared from a common NETWORK source.

Based on this I truly question the decisions made by Logos 4 NOT to cater for networking environments; and if Andrew's comments are a small reflection of the disappointment experienced by people who have used BOTH the Libronix and Logos 4 software, then I suspect that Logos 4 deserve the flack for the hard-line decisions they have made.

Having made those decisions it is totally inappropriate to tell people that this new software is better when in fact their experience is a huge backward step. No amount of hanging in there is going to convince such people otherwise. There are some people who expect value for their money and lets NOT forget that Logos commands the highest price for this experience.

Bottom line... If the Emperor is naked, he's naked..

Regards Phil

Bohuslav Wojnar

Is it possible amid a sea of people admiring the fine clothes of the Emperor as he rides down the street on his horse that Andrew is one of only a few handful of people to actually be honest about the fact that the Emperor is stark butt naked?

Phil, sorry but I cannot agree with your analogy. It seems to me you try to say that those who say: "Logos 4 is great piece of software, I like the direction of it's development, it works great for me..." are not sincere but trying (out of honor, fear or simple flattery) not to say openly "the emperor is naked". I strongly disagree. I think those satisfied with Logos 4 are as sincere as those having problems with it. How I know? Because I am one of them. May be I haven't understood you well enough, in this case I apologize.

P.S. One more thing: saying to a customer who has some issues with the software, that others do not experience those issues, don't have necessarily be negatively seen by the OP. It should be helpful IMHO to the OP to see it is not a general design problem of the software, there is something going on what could/should be worked out with the Customer Service.

DMB

I agree with Bohuslav; what else can users say that they didn't? The first answer immediately suggested technical support (didn't sound like a user issue). And the remaining spoke to the OP's implied message, which they certainly have an interest in doing.

But I do suspect when Logos fouls up royally (with clothes of course), the company does little obvious 'hand-holding' that would calm the user down. Of course we all know the primary documentation is from users stumbling around figuring it out (yea Steve and Dave and Mark!!).

But the most likely culprit in Logos4 is always going to be either the indexing or the internet cross-communication. The gigs are almost always high, so a normal prorgram developer would 'normally' write in hand-holding messages when the program itself knows something's wrong.

What impresses me is the repeated 'please post your logs'. Someone with a little experience can often spot the problem ... but the program developer can't? "Well, you know these computers are just soooooo complicated ... maybe the user can figure it out."

I always keep thinking about the likely design philosphy ... 'Fire Someone Today' ... can't handle the heat ... get another piece of Bible software.

BillS

Based on this I truly question the decisions made by Logos 4 NOT to cater for networking environments;

Actually, Phil, Logos HAS catered to what they see as the COMING networking environment--cloud. Sync settings, licenses, & master copies of all the resources are now held in the cloud "for" us, as is a growing body of "community" data.

HOME networking, while of interest to you & me, is the archtecture of the immediate present, perhaps soon to be past.

If you've lived with us through v. 2, v. 3, & now v. 4, then you know that Bob has bet the farm each time on the architecture that's coming. You (and I) don't like it, but so far Bob's been on target (with the possible exception of WPF).

I don't like cloud either. To me, in too many ways it's a return to the days of "big iron" architectures that distributed computing was supposed to save us from. I still prefer distributed...

So while I feel your pain (literally, each time I've had to rebuild L4), unless industry picks a different "future" architecture, I don't see Logos moving away from cloud any time soon.

Many blessings to you.

George Somsel

Thanks for your response MJ.

My point about responses is that it is rather glib to respond to people's complaint with "I've had no problems" This sort of response is inane and unhelpful.

Beyond this it appears to me that Logos 4 whilst catering for what they perceive to be a majority are going totally against the growing home network environment where media and resources are shared from a common NETWORK source.

Based on this I truly question the decisions made by Logos 4 NOT to cater for networking environments; and if Andrew's comments are a small reflection of the disappointment experienced by people who have used BOTH the Libronix and Logos 4 software, then I suspect that Logos 4 deserve the flack for the hard-line decisions they have made.

Having made those decisions it is totally inappropriate to tell people that this new software is better when in fact their experience is a huge backward step. No amount of hanging in there is going to convince such people otherwise. There are some people who expect value for their money and lets NOT forget that Logos commands the highest price for this experience.

Bottom line... If the Emperor is naked, he's naked..

Regards Phil

I was a part of the beta testing so I have been in on L4 from the beginning. At first I was not too impressed with L4. Perhaps it was the fact that it was still under develoopment (well, it still actually is [:)]), but I preferred L3 for some time. Today I still use L3 for some things such as calculating weights and measures (L4 doesn't have that facility), but I have gradually switched to nearly exclusive use of L4. I like it though there are still a few points that irritate me such as the fact that it is necessary to drag a resource from the menu to where you want it unless you're content to let L4 open it where it jolly well pleases—I rather wish that certain types of resources could be designated to open in certain locations (original language texts on the left, lexicons on the right, etc). It hasn't been all peaches and cream. I've had a few frustrations along the way. I would ask, have you really given it a fair shot? This means, have you availed yourself of the help of other members of the forum or, if necessary, tech support? I would recommend that you not be too hasty. I'm still working on understanding how to construct sytax searches. Supposedly they're good for searching for information other searches can't find, but I find them frustrating. Perhaps I'm too YOUNG. [;)]

Stephen Miller

Andrew,

You must be impressed that so many users are on your side!!

What can i say? I went through what you are going through. Constanyly downloading megaG of resources, constantly indexing the library. So much downloading and indexing that for about 12 months I used L3 (what a great prog!!) and just watched L4 do acrobatics.

I also noticed that the megaG of resources were downloaded into 3 separate folders with mysticalo names.

On some occasions more thyan one indexing prog was running at once!

Perhaps I was at fault, or perhaps Logoes wasn't as flexible as it should have been. When i first downloaded and installed L4 I did NOT install it in the default directory. I rarely install any prog in the default directory. I have my own system which works very well but takes a little effort and metal gymnastics to maintain.

My feeling is that L4 took exception to my efforts and dug its heels in.

Everything was solved when I did a fresh install of win7 and a completely new install of L4.

L4 is now working fine .... if I could only get it to work exactly as L3 did!!! What about changing the default font? What's happened to all those beautiful colour I had?

Stephen Miller

Sydney, Australia

Tes

I am amazed, why should we buy DVDs for Logos product
manuals from Morris proctor? Logos should provide a detail explanation about
how to use the software, like others. If there were no forum where we
could ask our problems, it would have less value to buy the software. I
have invested myself over 6000 USD, but there is no way I could get a guide. I
am very grateful to those unnoticed by Logos , who take time to help me.I
am amazed as well for those who advocate for Logos as if everything were good.
Please let's become realistic.

Dennis Miller

Andrew,

Not denying you have some frustrations, but I've been using Logos 4 for over two years on the same laptop (Toshiba) and haven't experienced on single download error, or any other error for that matter. Everyone I have personal contact with (other seminary students and pastors) who have Logos 4 love it as much as I do and not one of them has ever complained about problems anywhere remotely like yours. Come to think of it, none of them have ever expressed anything but good things about the software and it's helpfulness. Honestly, for the price I've put into it, Logos has gone way above my expectations. Sure there are quirks to the system (i.e., commands I don't know) but none of them has ever hindered my use.

And it sure beats moving boxes of books from my house to my office library!

Hope you get the issues worked out before giving up.

John, really, no complaints from anyone you know who uses the software? It's the slowest application I have installed on my computer. It is constantly wanting to update something which always requires a restart and that after the initial 5 - 10 minute wait for it to start up the first time since it can't seem to sync anything with logos servers in a timely manner and when it does finally start it takes anther 30 - 60 seconds to download the home page info and then it just continuously sync's slowing down menu selections and anything else you want to do. No I'm sorry but I can't believe that there are only a few of us complainers who are having trouble with this software. I keep patiently waiting for it to mature to a full functioning app but I don't think we'll ever see that with Logos 4. Luckily I do have another very speedy, mature, functional, Bible app I turn to for my main study needs and only use logos for the misc. resources I require and have already invested in. I used to love Logos but now it's become a love/hate relationship.

Lawrence Young

John, really, no complaints from anyone you know who uses the software? It's the slowest application I have installed on my computer. It is constantly wanting to update something which always requires a restart and that after the initial 5 - 10 minute wait for it to start up the first time since it can't seem to sync anything with logos servers in a timely manner and when it does finally start it takes anther 30 - 60 seconds to download the home page info and then it just continuously sync's slowing down menu selections and anything else you want to do. No I'm sorry but I can't believe that there are only a few of us complainers who are having trouble with this software. I keep patiently waiting for it to mature to a full functioning app but I don't think we'll ever see that with Logos 4. Luckily I do have another very speedy, mature, functional, Bible app I turn to for my main study needs and only use logos for the misc. resources I require and have already invested in. I used to love Logos but now it's become a love/hate relationship.

I really enjoy Logos Bible Software and don't seem to have many of the problems that I have read about in the forums. I do have to wait for updates and syncing like anyone else but it doesn't bother me too much. I guess I'm not usually in that big of a hurry... most of the time.

I did recently have a problem with the software and customer service that concerns me a little though. I've never tried to use pronunciation until recently and I found that it didn't work. I posted to the forums but didn't receive much help other than suggestions to call Logos. I did and after talking to a very nice young lady my problem was referred to the tech guys who asked a series of questions like what version of Windows I was using, 32 bit or 64 bit. I answered 64 bit. After a couple of weeks of them "working on it" I was told that they don't know why it isn't working and suggested I upgrade Windows to 64 bit.

I wanted to scream. I felt like Logos could care less about helping me with my problem. I wrote an email to Bob and he responded very quickly asking me what I would like him to do. I didn't know how to reply other than to say that I'd like it fixed and just wanted him to know that I received great service from customer service but the tech guys seem too busy to care.... and that's where it ended.

So here I sit with a pretty good piece of software (in my opinion) that works for 99.9% of what I want to do with it but I'm growing concerned that I have heavily invested in a company that's trying to do too much at once and may be loosing customers in the process.

I hope I'm wrong but I guess time will tell.

Lynden O. Williams

I have finally come to the end of the road with Logos4. What started as affection for Logos2/3 has descended into a deep hatred for Logos4. Logos4 is a door to a gray building without a buzzer or door handle and a welcome mat the reads "Go away, I'm busy".

Andrew, were your issues resolved?

Gary Butner, Th.D.

Andrew, I have used Logos since 1994. Initially, I purchased 3 additional Bible programs for evaluation, and it quickly became apparent Logos would be the best package in the long run. Over the years I encountered a few problems, but for the most part I was the problem. A call to Logos support or another user always solved the problem.

Charles Meyer

I have been using Logos since version 3 and I have installed Logos 4 at least 8 times (as a programmer I upgrade and re-install computers frequently), I can verify several of the same problems he is having.

a. No control over the download possess

b. No control over how much of the library gets downloaded (this is big for those with limited bandwidth and small hard drives) the problem gets bigger if you buy a bigger library

c. No control over where the library gets downloaded to (this is a very big problem for those who are using a small SSD for boot)

d. Downloads a second copy of everything if you log in as a different windows user and try to run Logos (even though you are using the same Logos user name)

e. Very little control over your library (no way to delete books)

f. Non-standard user interface! Creating an intuitive user interface is not about being simple or creative; its about doing things in the way the user is used to. (Yes, I design user interfaces for a living and I have never seen any other program use the same UI patterns as Logos 4)

That being said, I use Logos every day because it is such a powerful program, but I do understand his pain.

Jack Caviness

no way to delete books

It's called "hide" in L4. This removed the resource from your computer.

Paul Golder

Irony defined:

no way to delete books...Non-standard user interface!

It's called "hide" in L4..

[:D]

tom

Irony defined:

no way to delete books...Non-standard user interface!

It's called "hide" in L4..

[Y]

Jonathan Burke

I have a lot of sympathy for the original poster, and for similar comments in this thread. When L4 came out, it was seriously broken. By that I mean it lacked a significant number of features which were standard in L3, features which were not merely cosmetic or a different way of doing the same things.

It took a long time for these features to be included in L4, and during that time the program was extremely frustrating to use. Some feature, such as the PBB, didn't appear until an incredibly long time.

However, once most of those features were included, L4 was clearly a massive improvement over L3, and the only real issue which remained was learning the new system. That learning curve was steep, but paid off well.