English translation of the LXX

I'm interested in an English translation of the Septuagint, but I don't think Logos sells any. The only thing I could find is the Lexham Greek-English Interlinear Septuagint, on the product page they say it contains an "English literal translation". Do you guys think I can use that as a translation if I don't know Greek?

Find more posts tagged with

Comments

Mark Smith

Logos has The Septuagint Version of the Old Testament by Sir Lancelot Charles Lee Brenton. It is an English translation of the LXX.

nikk

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/38844#Comment_38844

Logos has The Septuagint Version of the Old Testament by Sir Lancelot Charles Lee Brenton. It is an English translation of the LXX.

I just noticed it on the comparison chart as "Brenton Septuagint", but it's only available from scholars up.

How can I get it without upgrading? I can't find a product page for it.

J.R. Miller

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/38866#Comment_38866

some books are only sold as a package

nikk

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/38928#Comment_38928

some books are only sold as a package

That's most unfortunate.

I'm still interested in an an answer to my original question, can I use the LGEIS as a translation if I don't know Greek?

Milford Charles Murray

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/38951#Comment_38951

some books are only sold as a package

That's most unfortunate.

I'm still interested in an an answer to my original question, can I use the LGEIS as a translation if I don't know Greek?

I really don't think so. It's too disjointed. Not really a translation!

Here's a sample............. Peace & Joy in the Lord to you ............ ..... Mel

Book 1 (Psalm 1)

Μακάριος

ἀνήρ

ὃς

οὐκ

ἐπορεύθη

ἐν

μακάριος

ἀνήρ

ὅς

οὐ

πορεύομαι

ἐν

JNSM

NNSM

RR-NSM

VAPI3S

blessed, happy

man, husband

who, which, that

not

to make, to go

in, into

Blessed is

the man

who

not₂

does go₁¹

βουλῇ

ἀσεβῶν

καὶ

ἐν

ὁδῷ

ἁμαρτωλῶν

οὐκ

βουλή

ἀσεβής

καί

ἐν

ὁδός

ἁμαρτωλός

οὐ

NDSF

JGPM

NDSF

JGPM

counsel, advice

ungodly, unholy, profane

and

in, into

way

sinful

not

the counsel

of the ungodly²

and

in ₃

the way ₄

of sinners₅

not₂

ἔστη

καὶ

ἐπὶ

καθέδραν

λοιμῶν

οὐκ

ἐκάθισεν

ἀλλʼ

ἢ

ἵστημι

καί

ἐπί

καθέδρα

λοιμός

οὐ

καθίζω

ἀλλά

ἤ

VAAI3S

NASF

NGPM

VAAI3S

to stand, make stand

and

on, in

a seat

pernicious; evil

not

to sit

but

rather

does stand₁

and

in₃

the seat₄

of evil persons.₅

not₂

does sit₁

But

rather

ἐν

τῷ

νόμῳ

κυρίου

τὸ

θέλημα

αὐτοῦ

καὶ

ἐν

τῷ

νόμῳ

ἐν

ὁ

νόμος

κύριος

ὁ

θέλημα

αὐτός

καί

ἐν

ὁ

νόμος

DDSM

NDSM

NGSM

DNSN

NNSN

RP-GSM

DDSM

NDSM

the

law

Lord

the

will

he, she, it

and

the

law

on₃

the₄

law₅

of the Lord₆

—

will (is focused)₂³

his₁

and

—

law₂

αὐτοῦ

μελετήσει

ἡμέρας

καὶ

νυκτός

καὶ

ἔσται

ὡς

τὸ

αὐτός

μελετάω

ἡμέρα

καί

νύξ

καί

εἰμί

ὡς

ὁ

RP-GSM

VFAI3S

NGSF

VFMI3S

DNSN

he, she, it

to meditate, study

day

and

night

and

to be, exist, happen

the

his₁

he will meditate⁴

day

and

night.

—

He will be

the

ξύλον

τὸ

πεφυτευμένον

παρὰ

τὰς

διεξόδους

τῶν

ὑδάτων

ὃ

ξύλον

ὁ

φυτεύω

παρά

ὁ

διέξοδος

ὁ

ὕδωρ

ὅς

NNSN

DNSN

VRUP-SNN

DAPF

NAPF

DGPN

NGPN

RR-ASN

tree

the

to plant

along

the

stream

the

river

which

tree

which

has been planted⁵

along

the

streams

of the

rivers

which

τὸν

καρπὸν

αὐτοῦ

δώσει

ἐν

καιρῷ

αὐτοῦ

καὶ

τὸ

φύλλον

αὐτοῦ

ὁ

καρπός

αὐτός

δίδωμι

ἐν

καιρός

αὐτός

καί

ὁ

φύλλον

αὐτός

DASM

NASM

RP-GSN

VFAI3S

NDSM

RP-GSN

DNSN

NNSN

RP-GSN

the

fruit

he, she, it

to give

season

he, she, it

and

the

a leaf

he, she, it

—

fruit₃

its₂

will give₁

in₄

season.₆

its₅

And

—

leaf₂

its₁

οὐκ

ἀπορρυήσεται

καὶ

πάντα

ὅσα

ἂν

ποιῇ

οὐ

ἀπορρέω

καί

πᾶς

ὅσος

ἄν

ποιέω

VFMI3S

JNPN

RK-NPN

VPAS3S

not

to fall off

and

all

how much

ever

to make, do

not₄

will fall off;₃

—

In all things

how much₁

-ever₂

he does

Tan, R., deSilva, D. A., & Logos Research Systems, I. (2009; 2009). The Lexham Greek-English Interlinear Septuagint. Logos Research Systems, Inc.

R. Mansfield

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/38844#Comment_38844

Logos has The Septuagint Version of the Old Testament by Sir Lancelot Charles Lee Brenton. It is an English translation of the LXX.

Unfortunately, Brenton is extremely outdated both in scholarship and in style. I looked and was surprised not to see a Logos module of the recently released New English Translation of the Septuagint (NETS). The NETS is now the standard English translation of the LXX.

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/38980#Comment_38980

I believe that the Orthodox Study Bible is also a translations from the LXX ... better than Brenton (which I had as a PBB in L3) but not as good as NETS.

R. Mansfield

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/38994#Comment_38994

I believe that the Orthodox Study Bible is also a translations from the LXX ... better than Brenton (which I had as a PBB in L3) but not as good as NETS.

Yes, the Orthodox Study Bible OT was adapted from the NKJV OT to fit the LXX because the NKJV NT was already based on the Byzantine text which is recognized by the Orthodox church. I don't have a copy, but I've read that a handful of places have been found in which a reading in the OT resembles the Masoretic text more than the LXX because of oversights in the translation/adaptation process. A second edition is supposed to fix these.

The NETS was adapted from the NRSV OT in a very similar way, but much more extensively. Many places in the NETS have very little resemblance to the NRSV because of the thoroughness of matching the LXX.

Rick Brannan (Logos)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/38976#Comment_38976

I really don't think so. It's too disjointed. Not really a translation!

Actually, if you re-assemble the "English Literal Value" line in the specified word order, you'll get very close to a readable translation. Here's your Psalm 1:

[quote]

1 Blessed is the man who does not go in the counsel of the ungodly and does not stand in the way of sinners and does not sit in the seat of evil persons.

2 But rather his will (is focused) on the law of the Lord and in his law he will meditate day and night.

3 He will be like the tree which has been planted along the streams of the rivers which will give its fruit in its season. And its leaf will not fall off. In all things however much he does he will be given prosperity.

4 Not so the ungodly, not so. But rather (they are) like the chaff which the wind spreads abroad, away fro the face of the land.

5 On account of this the ungodly will not stand up in judgent nor the sinful (will stand) in the council of the righteous.

6 because the Lord knows the way of the righteous; but the way of the ungodly will perish.

This is why we have (painstakingly, I might add) tried to ensure that the English Literal Translation line has word order numbers, so that the line can be reassembled in an English reading order. It may be stilted in some points, but this largely because it seeks to work each word into the translation to make the Greek order/syntax transparent in the English, yet still be somewhat readable.

So I'd say that yes, you can get a readable, modern English translation of the Greek of the LXX from the Logos interlinear. If that is your primary interest, I'd recommend turning off all interlinear lines except the 'Manuscript' and 'English Literal Translation' line. It will remove the other stuff (still available on right-click) and make it easier to read/assemble in your head.

Hope it helps.

Milford Charles Murray

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/39069#Comment_39069

I really don't think so. It's too disjointed. Not really a translation!

Actually, if you re-assemble the "English Literal Value" line in the specified word order, you'll get very close to a readable translation. Here's your Psalm 1:

[quote]

1 Blessed is the man who does not go in the counsel of the ungodly and does not stand in the way of sinners and does not sit in the seat of evil persons.

2 But rather his will (is focused) on the law of the Lord and in his law he will meditate day and night.

3 He will be like the tree which has been planted along the streams of the rivers which will give its fruit in its season. And its leaf will not fall off. In all things however much he does he will be given prosperity.

4 Not so the ungodly, not so. But rather (they are) like the chaff which the wind spreads abroad, away fro the face of the land.

5 On account of this the ungodly will not stand up in judgent nor the sinful (will stand) in the council of the righteous.

6 because the Lord knows the way of the righteous; but the way of the ungodly will perish.

Hope it helps.

Well Done, Rick!

It was 3:00 in the morning your time when you posted, but - obviously - your mind was still clear and sharp! *smile* Wow!

AND!

You are absolutely correct. I should have spent just a bit more time pondering before I posted. Thank you! One more example of the fantastic concern Logos has for its patrons (customers? clients? users?)

Also, I really appreciate your word "painstakingly"! A modest statement of the "drive" you good folks have for quality!

Peace and Joy to you in the Lord ............. ........... Mel

Rick Brannan (Logos)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/39077#Comment_39077

No problemo. The word order numbers can get lost in the mix with all the other data there.

It was 3:00 in the morning your time when you posted, but - obviously - your mind was still clear and sharp!

Actually, it was 6AM. The only thing I saw at 3AM was the backs of my eyelids. Not sure how the time came through otherwise.

Milford Charles Murray

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/39090#Comment_39090

I saw your post "timed" at Today 6:07 AM - then mistakingly - in my mind - subtracted 3 hours from my time because I'm EST. Dunno what I was thinking! Obviously I was not "sharp" and "crisp" when I wrote. *smile*

nikk

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/39069#Comment_39069

I really don't think so. It's too disjointed. Not really a translation!

Actually, if you re-assemble the "English Literal Value" line in the specified word order, you'll get very close to a readable translation. Here's your Psalm 1:

[quote]

1 Blessed is the man who does not go in the counsel of the ungodly and does not stand in the way of sinners and does not sit in the seat of evil persons.

2 But rather his will (is focused) on the law of the Lord and in his law he will meditate day and night.

3 He will be like the tree which has been planted along the streams of the rivers which will give its fruit in its season. And its leaf will not fall off. In all things however much he does he will be given prosperity.

4 Not so the ungodly, not so. But rather (they are) like the chaff which the wind spreads abroad, away fro the face of the land.

5 On account of this the ungodly will not stand up in judgent nor the sinful (will stand) in the council of the righteous.

6 because the Lord knows the way of the righteous; but the way of the ungodly will perish.

Hope it helps.

Thanks [:D]

James Macleod

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/39099#Comment_39099

Is there plans to do the NETS in Logos? I have the hard copy and it is really good.

Garry Vanderveen

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/40955#Comment_40955

Yes, inquisitive minds want to know... When will NETS be available to Logos users? It is indispensable! :-)

Mike Aubrey

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/38980#Comment_38980

The NETS is now the standard English translation of the LXX.

Well, as close to being a standard that it can be. When it comes to scholarship, I've always thought the words "standard" and "translation" didn't mesh together.

Mike Aubrey

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/138974#Comment_138974

Yes, inquisitive minds want to know... When will NETS be available to Logos users? It is indispensable! :-)

Gottingen is indispensable. [:P]

Mike Aubrey

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/38928#Comment_38928

some books are only sold as a package

There are plans to make these available, but it takes time for everything to be process, new product descriptions to be written, files to be moved, etc. -- actually writing the descriptions is probably the biggest and most time consuming part, particularly when we're continuously working on getting pre-pubs up at the same time.

Garry Vanderveen

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/138987#Comment_138987

True enough. But for non-LXX specialists, NETS is indispensable! Ok, they're both indispensable; they serve two different purposes. Plus, NETS is available on Accordance and Logos needs to keep up with the Jones - if you know what I mean. :-)

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/138990#Comment_138990

There are plans to make these available, but it takes time for everything to be process, new product descriptions to be written, files to be moved, etc. -- actually writing the descriptions is probably the biggest and most time consuming part, particularly when we're continuously working on getting pre-pubs up at the same time.

Please also keep your eyes on the EOB http://www.orthodoxanswers.org/eob/index.aspThe New Testament is already released.

AndyTheGreek

I'm interested in an English translation of the Septuagint, but I don't think Logos sells any. The only thing I could find is the Lexham Greek-English Interlinear Septuagint, on the product page they say it contains an "English literal translation". Do you guys think I can use that as a translation if I don't know Greek?

The New American Bible is a translation of the LXX (for the OT, of course) and is available as a separate resource. I've no idea about how good it is although I'm informed that its NT is very decent.

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/139094#Comment_139094

The New American Bible is a translation of the LXX

http://www.bible-researcher.com/nab.html implies that the NAB is translated from the Hebrew, when available, rather than the Vulgate or LXX. I don't know the reliability of the site but it does confirm my vague memory.

Mike Aubrey

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/139218#Comment_139218

The New American Bible is a translation of the LXX

http://www.bible-researcher.com/nab.html implies that the NAB is translated from the Hebrew, when available, rather than the Vulgate or LXX. I don't know the reliability of the site but it does confirm my vague memory.

From the Preface:

The text of the books contained in The New American Bible is a completely new translation throughout. From the original and the oldest available texts of the sacred books, it aims to convey as directly as possible the thought and individual style of the inspired writers. The better understanding of Hebrew and Greek, and the steady development of the science of textual criticism, the fruit of patient study since the time of St. Jerome, have allowed the translators and editors in their use of all available materials to approach more closely than ever before the sense of what the sacred authors actually wrote.

Where the translation supposes the received text—Hebrew, Aramaic, or Greek, as the case may be—ordinarily contained in the best-known editions, as the original or the oldest extant form, no additional remarks are necessary. But for those who are happily able to study the original text of the scriptures at firsthand, a supplementary series of textual notes pertaining to the Old Testament was added originally in an appendix to the typical edition. (It is now obtainable in a separate booklet from The Catholic Biblical Association of America, The Catholic University of America, Washington, DC 20064.) These notes furnish a guide in those cases in which the editorial board judges that the manuscripts in the original languages, or the evidence of the ancient versions, or some similar source, furnish the correct reading of a passage, or at least a reading more true to the original than that customarily printed in the available editions.

The Massoretic text of 1 and 2 Samuel has in numerous instances been corrected by the more ancient manuscripts Samuel a, b, and c from Cave 4 of Qumran, with the aid of important evidence from the Septuagint in both its oldest form and its Lucianic recension. Fragments of the lost Book of Tobit in Aramaic and in Hebrew, recovered from Cave 4 of Qumran, are in substantial agreement with the Sinaiticus Greek recension used for the translation of this book. The lost original Hebrew text of 1 Maccabees is replaced by its oldest extant form in Greek. Judith, 2 Maccabees, and parts of Esther are also translated from the Greek.

The basic text for the Psalms is not the Massoretic but one which the editors considered closer to the original inspired form, namely the Hebrew text underlying the new Latin Psalter of the Church, the Liber Psalmorum (1944, 1 19452). Nevertheless they retained full liberty to establish the reading of the original text on sound critical principles.

The translation of Sirach, based on the original Hebrew as far as it is preserved and corrected from the ancient versions, is often interpreted in the light of the traditional Greek text. In the Book of Baruch the basic text is the Greek of the Septuagint, with some readings derived from an underlying Hebrew form no longer extant. In the deuterocanonical sections of Daniel (3:24–91, chapter 13 and chapter 14), the basic text is the Greek text of Theodotion, occasionally revised according to the Greek text of the Septuagint.

Confraternity of Christian Doctrine. Board of Trustees et al., The New American Bible : Translated from the Original Languages With Critical Use of All the Ancient Sources With the Revised Book of Psalms and the Revised New Testament ( (Confraternity of Christian Doctrine, 1996)).

R. Mansfield

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/138985#Comment_138985

The NETS is now the standard English translation of the LXX.

Well, as close to being a standard that it can be. When it comes to scholarship, I've always thought the words "standard" and "translation" didn't mesh together.

Yes, a quibble maybe, and I understand your point. However, I do think the word standard applies here. For over a century Brenton's translation of the LXX was the only one available. Now there are around three or four translations, but the NETS is the most significant one. There are no Brenton-only-LXX folks out there decrying the NETS. The Orthodox Study Bible's text is not even embraced by some who are Orthodox. This is a small pond to be certain, but the NETS is clearly the biggest fish swimming in it. It's much easier to refer to the NETS as the standard LXX translation than to call any non-LXX translation of the scriptures a standard--even those which are presumptuous enough to put standard in their name.

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/139241#Comment_139241

The Orthodox Study Bible's text is not even embraced by some who are Orthodox.

This is one reason the EOB project is underway. The OSB is intended to be just that - a study Bible. The EOB, on the other hand, is intended to work well as a liturgical text.

AndyTheGreek

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/139218#Comment_139218

The New American Bible is a translation of the LXX

http://www.bible-researcher.com/nab.html implies that the NAB is translated from the Hebrew, when available, rather than the Vulgate or LXX. I don't know the reliability of the site but it does confirm my vague memory.

Ooops... my mistake.

I based what I wrote on http://www.logos.com/ebooks/details/nab which states "This new
English translation of the Bible, Old and Revised New Testaments, was
prepared especially for Catholics by the Catholic Biblical Association
of America, using the Septuagint for the Old Testament. Includes the
books of Tobit, Judith, I & II Maccabees, Wisdom, and Sirach
(Ecclesiasticus)."

Evidently 'using' actually means 'referring to occasionally' rather than 'using exclusively'.

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/139357#Comment_139357

I based what I wrote on http://www.logos.com/ebooks/details/nab which states "This new
English translation of the Bible, Old and Revised New Testaments, was
prepared especially for Catholics by the Catholic Biblical Association
of America, using the Septuagint for the Old Testament. Includes the
books of Tobit, Judith, I & II Maccabees, Wisdom, and Sirach
(Ecclesiasticus)."

I think I'll ask Logos for my money back - false advertising and all.[:O]

Mike Aubrey

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/139357#Comment_139357

Evidently 'using' actually means 'referring to occasionally' rather than 'using exclusively'.

No, "using" means "using."

The LXX is an essential text for getting to the original of any book of the Hebrew Bible and the NAB scholars would have consistently and regularly used the LXX as they worked with both the Hebrew MT and the Greek LXX together, beside each other.

While there are numerous places where scholars can easily use the LXX exclusively without reference to the MT (either because there is not surviving Hebrew or there new was), there is absolutely no place in the Old Testament where scholars can justifiably using the Hebrew without at the same time using the LXX. It is too important of a source.