Comments
- What sort of time-frame is in mind for an upgrade to software only option (even if it needs to be purchased)?
- Is Logos planning to eventually make the upgrade to v5 free?
Sarcasm is my love language. Obviously I love you. 
Anyone have the link for the Logos 5 installer?
I've been trying to guess it, based on the L4 installer link (http://downloads.logos.com/LBS4/LDLS4Installer/Logos4Setup.exe), changing all the 4's to 5's, etc. But so far have not hit on the right combination.
How have those who have upgraded already been able to install it?
How have those who have upgraded already been able to install it?I believe it's tied to your licenses. When you start L4 after purchasing the upgrade it initiates the update automatically.
So there must be a zero dollar engine purchase only?
"As any translator will attest, a literal translation is no translation at all."
Anyone have the link for the Logos 5 installer?
How have those who have upgraded already been able to install it?
The link they send in the email doesn't work. L4 picks up the update automatically and installs it like any other update. I don't suppose it would be ethical to post the installer? Probably not. [:(] There are definitely a lot of folks here who should definitely be given priority to the engine update regardless of whether they opt for a paid upgrade. Seems unfair to hold it back.
Anyone have the link for the Logos 5 installer?
How have those who have upgraded already been able to install it?
The link they send in the email doesn't work. L4 picks up the update automatically and installs it like any other update. I don't suppose it would be ethical to post the installer? Probably not.
There are definitely a lot of folks here who should definitely be given priority to the engine update regardless of whether they opt for a paid upgrade. Seems unfair to hold it back.
I still haven't been able to get on the website yet, but there is probably no point in me getting the paid upgrade. I already have Portfolio plus a lot more. I probably all the new resources they have added to it, so I might have to wait until the free engine is available. Phooey! That's some gratitude for spending over $70,000 on Logos resources over the years.
I just called about the upgrade. I own portfolio and was shocked to hear that I have to spend at least half a grand to upgrade (or $2,000 to have my portfolio functioning in 5). My wife and I are both students so I doubt this will be high on our list of purchases.
Hey, this lady would make a great next door neighbor. Could I please borrow an hour with your version of Logos, Ma'am?
I'm not upgrading, I can't afford to, but don't need to. I'll stick with my gold. The market price of gold is going up every day.
At least it sounds good.... [H] Anyhow, I have a few items still on order: sheesh, does take them time. I wonder what they have been doing? Ha!
Ergatees
I've tried a lot of variants of the two L4 Mac links, but can't find the Mac link for 5.
These two were both for the Mac install, but doing the normal mods don't result in anything. 
http://www.logos.com/logos4mac
http://downloads.logos.com/LBS4/LBS4MacInstaller/Logos4Mac.dmg
"The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected."- G.K. Chesterton
Rosie. $70,000?
That should be like, illegal or something.
Amazing. You probably have Turretin in ENGLISH!! 
--
So yes, please post the L5 engine link - whoever gets it first.
thanks
Heck with the new databases, I want the faster, cleaner UI! Someone figure out the Mac link!
"The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected."- G.K. Chesterton
Heck with the new databases, I want the faster, cleaner UI! Someone figure out the Mac link!
Note that if someone other than Logos gives you a link, you will download a pirated copy of the software
Free software, downloaded directly from the site's own address fails to qualify as "pirated." If they post it to the site, people are going to use the link.
I'm a student, my wife's a student, and Logos has a few thousand dollars from me over the years, and really just don't have much money at the moment, so I find the withholding in order to get people to spend to be a bit frustrating. I've never bought a package, and the new packages don't give me any discount above the 15% on things I do own, like Context of Scripture. So I'm really not tempted there.
On the other hand, if it really isn't capable of running without the new databases yet (which seems a bit of a programming oversight or else a premature release), that's a valid technical reason.
But again, I find the whole thing a bit odd and frustrating.
"The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected."- G.K. Chesterton
Free software, downloaded directly from the site's own address fails to qualify as "pirated." If they post it to the site, people are going to use the link.
I'm a student, my wife's a student, and Logos has a few thousand dollars from me over the years, and really just don't have much money at the moment, so I find the withholding in order to get people to spend to be a bit frustrating. I've never bought a package, and the new packages don't give me any discount above the 15% on things I do own, like Context of Scripture. So I'm really not tempted there.
On the other hand, if it really isn't capable of running without the new databases yet (which seems a bit of a programming oversight or else a premature release), that's a valid technical reason.
But again, I find the whole thing a bit odd and frustrating.
Not when the site you install if from clearly states at the top that it is currently to be used by users who have upgraded to Logos 5. When the product launch is over they will release if for everyone along with the option to purchase a minimal crossgrade.
Anyone have the link for the Logos 5 installer?
The Logos 5 engine is only available as part of upgrades at this point. While we plan to offer it sometime in the future, it is not yet released.
Our promise is that you won't need to buy an upgrade to keep access to your books as operating systems change, and that's still the case. (Logos 4.x still runs, is still available, and was even upgrade recently, and has more updates planned.)
I know that many people -- probably including me! -- have "shorthanded" this promise to "the software is free, you only pay for the books!". And the software is free; you can download it and read all your e-books. And eventually Logos 5 engine will be free, too -- just not yet.
Much of what is cool in Logos 5 is closely integrated with brand new (and very expensive to create/acquire!) data sets and content. We believe that the value of Logos 5 is in the combination of these tools and content, and that users will have the best experience with both the software and content together. (We still need to do some tweaking, in fact, to have Logos 5 elegantly handle the case of certain data sets not being available.)
By focusing on paid upgrades to collections/new-content at launch, we're able to:
- Ensure Logos 5 users have a great experience. (Downloading Logos 5 code-only and realizing that much of the new functionality is dependent on missing data could lead to unhappy users / reviews / less-enthusiasm for upgrading.)
- Recover our investment. Yes, the new code and new content and new bundles, all together, are great reasons to upgrade your content bundle. And people are (and should be!) excited about them -- they're great! And since we only get paid for new content -- even though it's expensive to write code, too -- we intentionally try to create that moment of enthusiasm to generate some sales and pay the bills, so we can be here to serve you in the future.
It's like this is a new movie, and we'd really like you to pay to see it in the theater with a drink and some popcorn -- and the whole family! Yes, you can wait till it's broadcast on TV for free, but that free broadcast doesn't pay the bills. So we'd prefer you don't sneak a camera into the theater and record it for your friends to watch for free. They can watch it for free -- just not this week. :-)
(And if they wait, they'll get the movie, but not the 40' screen, massive sound system, and deliciously unhealthy popcorn... that's why you want to get an upgrade -- it's got all the cool new content that makes it better!)
Thanks!
-- Bob
Anyone have the link for the Logos 5 installer?
The Logos 5 engine is only available as part of upgrades at this point. While we plan to offer it sometime in the future, it is not yet released.
Our promise is that you won't need to buy an upgrade to keep access to your books as operating systems change, and that's still the case. (Logos 4.x still runs, is still available, and was even upgrade recently, and has more updates planned.)
I know that many people -- probably including me! -- have "shorthanded" this promise to "the software is free, you only pay for the books!". And the software is free; you can download it and read all your e-books. And eventually Logos 5 engine will be free, too -- just not yet.
Much of what is cool in Logos 5 is closely integrated with brand new (and very expensive to create/acquire!) data sets and content. We believe that the value of Logos 5 is in the combination of these tools and content, and that users will have the best experience with both the software and content together. (We still need to do some tweaking, in fact, to have Logos 5 elegantly handle the case of certain data sets not being available.)
By focusing on paid upgrades to collections/new-content at launch, we're able to:
- Ensure Logos 5 users have a great experience. (Downloading Logos 5 code-only and realizing that much of the new functionality is dependent on missing data could lead to unhappy users / reviews / less-enthusiasm for upgrading.)
- Recover our investment. Yes, the new code and new content and new bundles, all together, are great reasons to upgrade your content bundle. And people are (and should be!) excited about them -- they're great! And since we only get paid for new content -- even though it's expensive to write code, too -- we intentionally try to create that moment of enthusiasm to generate some sales and pay the bills, so we can be here to serve you in the future.
It's like this is a new movie, and we'd really like you to pay to see it in the theater with a drink and some popcorn -- and the whole family! Yes, you can wait till it's broadcast on TV for free, but that free broadcast doesn't pay the bills. So we'd prefer you don't sneak a camera into the theater and record it for your friends to watch for free. They can watch it for free -- just not this week. :-)
(And if they wait, they'll get the movie, but not the 40' screen, massive sound system, and deliciously unhealthy popcorn... that's why you want to get an upgrade -- it's got all the cool new content that makes it better!)
Thanks!
-- Bob
Thank you, Bob! Your team is great and treated me VERY fairly on the phone even though I chose not to upgrade at his time. I appreciate the theatre analogy.
Making Disciples! Logos Ecosystem = LogosMax on Microsoft Surface Pro 7 (Win11), Android app on tablet, FSB on iPhone & iPad mini, Proclaim (Proclaim Remote on Fire Tablet).
Our promise is that you won't need to buy an upgrade to keep access to your books as operating systems change, and that's still the case.
I just wanted to say that I believe this to be a big difference from what was originally promised. I remember that when I purchased Logos 2 then upgraded to 3, a big deal was made that Logos promised that engine upgrades will always be free. This was the consistent message from sales reps, from the website, everywhere I looked. While I don't have them, I believe this may even have been in the EULA or Terms and Conditions. The message was that engine upgrades were free and would always remain free, and that resources were the only thing purchased. This is vastly different from saying that older versions of Logos will still be supported so that they run as operating systems change.
If you want to change your policy going forward, that's fine, but for those of us who purchased Logos long ago and have invested money into it, I do not believe it's fair to change this policy. It leaves those of us who've invested in Logos (with the assumption that we would always be able to use our resources in with the most up-to-date engine) feeling like we're 2nd class.
Nathanael – Welcome to the forums! [:)]
Nothing has changed. Bob didn't say that the engine wouldn't be offered for free… he just said that it wouldn't be made available NOW.
macOS, iOS & iPadOS |Logs| Install
Choose Truth Over Tribe | Become a Joyful Outsider!
I am cutting my investment loss with Logo's and plan to support WordSearch. The can keep the $1.37 from the last scam to suck money from me in the last December credit points non sense.
Thank you for your answer Bob,
It is the right thing to pay for a product that costs you money. Where I would do some refining is the area of "ancient" logos users - like myself. I started with Logos way back in 2003. And as time went on I purchased all sorts of individual products here and there, resulting in a large library.
Really, at this point I am only interested in paying for the new software with its new functions. But the lowest price of this - $200 is too much for me. I personally would be willing to pay about $50 to have the new software without any extra books.
Thanks a lot for your hard work. Logos is a blessing in my ministry
Laci Kadar
I agree wholeheartedly with Laszlo's comments. My so called discounted bill to move into this Logos5 is over $800. I have the Logos4 Gold.
I don't want any more books I can't use. I just want current upgrades as I do buy selectely and have spent a lot of money on Logos when I was using before BibleWorks.
Ergatees
Really, at this point I am only interested in paying for the new software with its new functions. But the lowest price of this - $200 is too much for me. I personally would be willing to pay about $50 to have the new software without any extra books.
It sounds like what you want is the forthcoming "minimal crossgrade". As the post Bob linked to stated, "we expect it'll be under $100 … we expect it will contain all/most of the unique new data sets".
Why wasn't all this said in an email or sent to the Logos homepage before this all started? There are a lot of people who are disappointed with LOGOS because of all the unknowns. It seems there would have been less confusion and a lot more understanding of the needed server issues. Trying to build a buzz if sometimes good, and there is a lot of information on the forums for people to see, but not everyone uses the forums.
[Y]
Yep, I have money sitting on prepub orders and after paying upgraded packages, I think that these engines and databases should be free to users and long-time customers. I started with Libronix.
I could cancel my orders to free up a few $$ but I won't. I have probably all the books I need, but I certainly would like to have improved interfaces which I think this is what it is all about. Being retired, paying out $1,000 shortly to the dentist this month is getting my attention.
Ergatees,
[+o(]
Yep, I have money sitting on prepub orders and after paying upgraded packages, I think that these engines and databases should be free to users and long-time customers. I started with Libronix.
I could cancel my orders to free up a few $ but I won't. I have probably all the books I need, but I certainly would like to have improved interfaces which I think this is what it is all about. Being retired, paying out $1,000 shortly to the dentist this month is getting my attention.
Ergatees,
The new software engine will be available for free after Logos 5 product launch. They have to charge for the minimal crossgrade (also available after the product launch) because the new databases required Logos to have employees knowledgeable in biblical languages to go in and manually tag the Bible. This could not be done with search algorithms. For example when you use the new clause search to find Jesus it will include every place He is mentioned using a pronoun instead of His proper name. This could only done by real people. The other datasets included similar person power. So its not something that they can just give for free.
They will give the software engine for free, but charge for the new datasets. They are just processing upgrades first (most likely due to server issues).
Well, I did decide to cancel a few orders to free up some money. I really didn't need the older edition of the ISBE because I have the new one in print.
I am not decided whether to update the engine or stay with Logos4. It works for me, so why fix something that works.
Hi Bob,
Thanks for that. It certainly explains what's going on! I think from this thread (and the Facebook ones) it's clear that many of us are feeling somewhat frustrated that you're using a cinema analogy when in actual fact all we want to do is to be able to upgrade with some certainty. I've benefitted from some Logos discounts, and been hurt by others. The problem at the moment seems to be, the pricing and timing decisions for v5 aren't clear. Fair enough when it comes to Community Pricing and Pre-Pubs, but with high-stakes activities like upgrades - when some of us, perhaps most? - have some $000's already in the software, the initial prices are WAY off-putting (at least to me - need to own my own stuff here!) And, I just don't know whether a few weeks down the road v5 will be discounted and I regret paying an immediate premium. Might seem good strategy to Logos, but as a customer I feel a wee bit alienated and confused.
So, two questions:
An alternative strategy might have been to release v5 for free, and rely on the enthusiasm for the new products that unlock its true features (and renewed market interest in the application itself) to pay the bills. From the outside it appears you have the committed client base, sales history and scale to achieve that.
Love what you guys do in terms of product development. I'm sure this is a difficult time for you all!
Cheers from sunny NZ,
Mark.
[Y]
I appreciated the lucidity of this post. Excellent! and Thank you!
Ergatees
I don't think it is available yet.