Logos from the heart

I was speaking to another pastor about Logos 5 the other day. We are not feeling good about the fact that we never got what was promised to us in Logos 4 like (syntax highlighting in English bibles). Now logos wants us to upgrade to five, and the new users can only come in at five, which make old users have to upgrade to five, if we want to help those new users along with the program, there is a cost to us.

Has Logos forgotten what this is all about have they done like must Christian companies when God blesses them, turn to money?

Older programs that do the same things for a lot less could get a whole lot of men and woman studying the bible again for all it worth.

The word on the street is "I am going to WS", please don't let that happen.

God bless brother,

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Graham Criddle

Hi Peter

Sorry but I don't quite understand some of your post.

and the new users can only come in at five

The Logos 4 engine is still available - see http://community.logos.com/forums/t/61195.aspx for the link to the latest release

which make old users have to upgrade to five, if we want to help those new users along with the program, there is a cost to us.

The Logos 5 engine is going to be freely available in the first quarter of 2013.

Graham

Milford Charles Murray

God bless brother,

God bless you also, Brother! I, too, am a Pastor, have been for over 50 years! *smile* My Pastor is allowing me to preach at our Advent Vesper Service this evening, so I won't be long! (now, that is - probably not tonight either! *smile* ) Anything that we can't finish today ... perhaps the Lord will let us finish it tomorrow.

I'm writing to let you know that I recognise that your name is Thomas and that you are somewhat frustrated. Just to clarify Graham's post (my friend who helped me this morning) .... Logos 5 will be free - no charge - sometime during 1st quarter of 2013. Of course that will not include the data sets and the new features of Logos 5 that some of us like so much. There is a cost for them.

Please investigate thoroughly what "is" and what "isn't"! *smile* Peace to you! and.. Always Joy in the Lord! *smile*

MJ. Smith

We are not feeling good about the fact that we never got what was promised to us in Logos 4 like (syntax highlighting in English bibles)

My personal guess based only on what I've seen on the forums: I think people are making too much of a deal about Logos 4 being "unfinished". Why? Because of continuing problems especially on the Mac side, I think the base code for L4 likely had some serious problems for cross-platform use. I suspect that it was cheaper to rewrite some sections (finishing the product) and call it Logos 5 than to "finish" Logos 4. In this respect Logos 5 is the "finished" Logos 4. Add to that the new features based on hand-built data sets, marketing it as Logos 5 rather than Logos 4 makes sense as a marketing decision. Most of the functionality of L5 works in the same way as L4 so that it is easy in a classroom to have both used depending upon when it was purchased and the hardware/OS on which it runs.

To me it seems much like car model years - the new year has some nice new features but the old model runs just fine and can share the road with newer models.

And no, I would not say the same of the L3/L4 upgrade. In that shift there was a significant rethinking of the product which made them substantially different to the user.

Simon’s Brother

I understand your frustration, but for Logos 4 to be finished they had to move to a new programming platform. Hence the change of numbering from 4.x to 5.x. What Logos began they are serious about completing. Yes there is a cost to upgrade if you want more than just the search engine, but I think the cost is reasonable. You don't have to buy a package with books, but can just get the databases, tools & minimal required resources for a very reasonable price. And what you get, you could never do with WS. A lot of people have been working hard to put together by hand the data sets in L5 over the last few years. Those people and their families deserved to be paid. Logos I believe employees 300 plus people, the have daily operating costs, there are the storage and hardware costs relating to the cloud serviced they provide to us all. A piece of software like Logos will never really reach the point of being finished. If they waited till some hypothetical finish point was reached before releasing a new major upgrade we would all be dead or Logos would go out of business because of a lack of funds. When we look at a company like Logos we can not expect it to operate like a charity or a church. It is a business.

all that said I don't believe we should let them off the hook for what should have been delivered in Logos 4 but was not.

Tes

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/440636#Comment_440636

I understand your frustration, but for Logos 4 to be finished they had to move to a new programming platform. Hence the change of numbering from 4.x to 5.x. What Logos began they are serious about completing. Yes there is a cost to upgrade if you want more than just the search engine, but I think the cost is reasonable. You don't have to buy a package with books, but can just get the databases, tools & minimal required resources for a very reasonable price. And what you get, you could never do with WS. A lot of people have been working hard to put together by hand the data sets in L5 over the last few years. Those people and their families deserved to be paid. Logos I believe employees 300 plus people, the have daily operating costs, there are the storage and hardware costs relating to the cloud serviced they provide to us all. A piece of software like Logos will never really reach the point of being finished. If they waited till some hypothetical finish point was reached before releasing a new major upgrade we would all be dead or Logos would go out of business because of a lack of funds. When we look at a company like Logos we can not expect it to operate like a charity or a church. It is a business.

all that said I don't believe we should let them off the hook for what should have been delivered in Logos 4 but was not.

Well said Andrew. It would be better to thank Logos for the PB and other free features and updates as well.

Simon’s Brother

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/440637#Comment_440637

One more point I forgot to add is Logos is still working on improving Logos 4 with a new beta released today so they have not wiped their hands if it because Logos 5 has now been released.

Batman

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/440636#Comment_440636

When we look at a company like Logos we can not expect it to operate like a charity or a church. It is a business.

One thing I will never understand is how people can make statements like that. There is a very fine line between what is right and what is wrong when it comes to profiting off the Word of God.
I have seen some very uncomfortable advertising and marketing here at Logos. For example, the "retail pricing" is exactly what the world does to entice people into thinking they are getting a better value than they really are. Is it deceptive? Yes. Is it outright lying? Probably not. But, for a company that deals with selling God's word, I would want to be as close to being upfront and honest as possible.
I am extremely happy to see, btw, that since I brought these issues to the attention of Mr. Pritchet (sorry, if mispelled) that they have actually changed this. and to me, that reflects how a business like this should be run. We now see Regular price, and Print price on sale prices. To me this shows the motivation is probably leaning more toward the side of integrity, and doing the right thing.
Yes, Logos is a business. But, no, it does not have to be run like the world's idea of how a business should be run. A business such as Logos CAN make money, be extremely successful, and be blessed of God. But, there is that fine line, and it is very easy to cross over.
I have to admit, every time I see something that is of concern to me, I have seen Logos take some action to correct things. Obviously, there are a lot of people and a lot of ideologies out there, not to mention just plain ole kooks. It is impossible for ANY company to please all the people. But it is great to see a company listening, and trying to do what is right. What is right, by God.
And that is what should separate a company like Logos from a company like Microsoft.

George Somsel

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/448392#Comment_448392

But it is great to see a company listening, and trying to do what is right. What is right, by God.
And that is what should separate a company like Logos from a company like Microsoft.

Yes and No. I've seen Microsoft play hardball with other companies to the point where it seems a bit unscrupulous, but I must confess that as a customer I've never had a bad experience with Microsoft. People seem to like to bash Microsoft. That is perhaps because they are so successful. They seem to like to attack the big fellow. I don't quite look at it that way. If someone is successful, it is probably because they are doing something right. Just wait. If Apple gets to be even more successful, they will start bashing Apple too.

Matthew C Jones

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/448394#Comment_448394

If Apple gets to be even more successful, they will start bashing Apple too.

They already do bash Apple.....and they bash Logos.......and they bash Microsoft. (Sometimes deservedly.)

But as imperfect as Logos may be, I would choose them any day over the other two when it comes to Customer Service.

Another thing: I never got an email from Bill Gates or Steve Jobs personally addressing my concerns. Bob Pritchett really does listen.

Milford Charles Murray

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/448392#Comment_448392

Yes, Logos is a business. But, no, it does not have to be run like the world's idea of how a business should be run. A business such as Logos CAN make money, be extremely successful, and be blessed of God. But, there is that fine line, and it is very easy to cross over.
I have to admit, every time I see something that is of concern to me, I have seen Logos take some action to correct things. Obviously, there are a lot of people and a lot of ideologies out there, not to mention just plain ole kooks. It is impossible for ANY company to please all the people. But it is great to see a company listening, and trying to do what is right. What is right, by God.
And that is what should separate a company like Logos from a company like Microsoft.

Peace, "Legends"! *smile*

What a lovely and very positive post as we continue to enter the New Year of God's Grace -- 2013!

Very much appreciated! Thank you!