Morphological Search Issues in Hebrews 1:1-2

I am working for my Doctoral Dissertation in the Letter to the Hebrews and am looking closely at the moment at 1:1-2. I am trying to understand the grammar and the reasons translations do what they always do, which I cannot see in the Greek.

So far, I see "Subject", "Participial Phrase", "Verb". Obviously the subject and verb go together to form the core of the sentence and the participial phrase works to modify. Yet all translations break the phrase up into two clauses which are not reflected in the Greek.

I am looking to find other occurrences of noun, participial phrase, verb in the NT. So I did a morph search for a participle followed closely by an indicative verb. A number of results came up, except the very one I am looking at! How can that be?

Also, does anyone know how to search for forms that have the same stem? Or how about, noun, participle, WITHIN 15-20 words, verb? Having trouble. Hope I made sense. Thanks for any help.

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Graham Criddle

Hi Robert - and welcome to the forums

So far, I see "Subject", "Participial Phrase", "Verb".

Sorry - where are you seeing this?

So I did a morph search for a participle followed closely by an indicative verb. A number of results came up, except the very one I am looking at! How can that be?

Presumably you are looking at λαλήσας as the participle and ἐλάλησεν as the indicative verb. This won't cause a hit as they are in separate verses and the morph search is constrained by verse boundaries. To go across these boundaries you probably need a syntax search (I'll have a look and see if I can come up with something)

Also, does anyone know how to search for forms that have the same stem?

Are you using Logos 4 or 5? 5 introduced the ability to search by root which should give you what you want. Depending on which you are using it would be better to repost there as more people are likely to be looking at those forums. These are at:

Logos 4 - http://community.logos.com/forums/76.aspx (Windows) or http://community.logos.com/forums/75.aspx
Logos 5 - http://community.logos.com/forums/109.aspx

For an overview of search capabilities please see http://wiki.logos.com/Detailed_Search_Help

Hope this helps

Graham

Graham Criddle

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/448013#Comment_448013

Hi Robert

To go across these boundaries you probably need a syntax search (I'll have a look and see if I can come up with something)

Sorry I haven't been able to get a Syntax Search to work - hopefully someone more knowledgeable in that area will be able to help.

As above I suggest you repost in the appropriate platform forum.

Graham

Robert Rayburn

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/448026#Comment_448026

Thanks, will do.

Rick Brannan (Logos)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/448026#Comment_448026

Hi Robert & Graham.

To go across these boundaries you probably need a syntax search (I'll have a look and see if I can come up with something)

Sorry I haven't been able to get a Syntax Search to work - hopefully someone more knowledgeable in that area will be able to help.

So, the basic problem (at least according to the Cascadia SBL syntax analysis) is the subject, which is in a 'gap' within the initial adverbial component. Here's the graph:

So, the easiest way to account for this is in a syntax search is to use an "anything" object between the subject and the prepositional phrase. Like this:

This finds the Heb 1.1-2 instance, as well as 356 others.

I have shared (er, will shortly after I post this) this search to the Faithlife Syntax Searching group here: https://faithlife.com/logos-syntax-searching. This means if you join the group, you can access the search and run it from your own computer. Folks on that group will also be happy to answer further questions about the search.

Graham Criddle

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/448051#Comment_448051

Hi Rick - thanks for responding.

So, the basic problem (at least according to the Cascadia SBL syntax analysis) is the subject, which is in a 'gap' within the initial adverbial component.

I thought that was the problem but couldn't work out what to do about it[:)]

So, the easiest way to account for this is in a syntax search is to use an "anything" object between the subject and the prepositional phrase.

Excellent.

I have shared (er, will shortly after I post this) this search to the Faithlife Syntax Searching group here: https://faithlife.com/logos-syntax-searching. This means if you join the group, you can access the search and run it from your own computer. Folks on that group will also be happy to answer further questions about the search.

Thanks - I have downloaded it and joined the discussion group

Thanks again, Graham