The ONE improvement that will make Logos EXCEPTIONAL

I have been with Logos for a long time and have witnessed the implementation of many useful features, as well as numerous improvements and an ever expanding collection of useful resources. Credits and thanks to Logos for all the work, the regular updates, betas, the forums, etc.

Although this is hardly a new suggestion/request, I think that the one feature that would make Logos SUBLIME is at last, a dramatic improvement of speed. There has been improvement in that area, but Logos continues to lag. I know, some people have better experiences than others. But it has been widely documented that many folks who have very good computers continue to have performance issues. I am one of them. After all this time, I still have to wait for the list of resource to pick for a search to populate.

I don't want to reopen the discussion here. It's been done already and I know there is a bunch who will come out and give stats and say they're very happy. Good for you. What I am trying to see is whether there enough agreement among a vast number of users that this continues to be a top priority issue. If so, let's push this "suggestion" to the top.

BTW, Logos people, this is the one area that continues to be a leading selling argument for those who promote Bibleworks over against Logos. Prioritize making Logos a lightning-fast program and there will be no more debate as to what Bible program is the best.

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Comments

DMB

Francis, you nailed it. On my PC, Logos flies. But when I say 'it flies' I mean relative to its prior molassas. It's still 'wait for this, wait for that'. And of course I don't use most of its features, as a result.

Yes, relative to 'the competition' responsiveness is the main issue.

Alan Charles Gielczyk

That is the selling point of BW but you have to remember BW is dealing with a couple of hundred of resources. Logos, on my computer, is dealing with over 11,000. I am very happy to sacrifice some speed for the access to all those resources.

Paul Golder

I'm thinking, from what has been said by Bob in the past, that perhaps performance improvements are not a high priority.

Just from what I remember from when L4 came out and Bob had said that he anticipated normal advancement in computer speed thus making Logos' performance acceptable.

And while there have been some speed improvements, I get the impression that "wait for the hardware" is still the main plan.

Francis

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/462037#Comment_462037

you have to remember BW is dealing with a couple of hundred of resources

This argument has been floating around for a while. I am not knowledgeable in under the hood stuff but I am starting to wonder whether that's just that: an argument that denies that there is a problem. Even people I know who have considerably less resources notice that Logos is slow.

I have also helped out friends who have less resources that there would be BW and I have not noticed any oooh aaah difference.

Lee

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/462261#Comment_462261

Perhaps Logos devs could be persuaded to look into some kind of caching algorithm, sort of like indexing on steroids.

Bob Pritchett

Now that Logos 5 is out, we're allocating more time to optimization and other improvements instead of just getting new features working. We have already made some speed improvements, and others are in the works. (In both apps and the web -- Logos.com has recently been sped up, too.)

Lynden O. Williams

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/462301#Comment_462301

Now that Logos 5 is out, we're allocating more time to optimization and other improvements instead of just getting new features working. We have already made some speed improvements, and others are in the works. (In both apps and the web -- Logos.com has recently been sped up, too.)

Thanks for the update Bob. Never really has a problem with the website, just the orders tab that is rather slow. Just noticed that we can start and search for groups from within our account settings. It also lists the groups that we are a part of as well.

David Ames

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/462322#Comment_462322

[

the orders tab that is rather slow.

We have too many resources - the more resources we have the slower the orders tab goes - dependent on library size - it looks like they do not index our orders and have to re look them up each time we ask [[just guessing but it feels like a multi table query rather then just list a file.]]

revrari

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/462378#Comment_462378

To my mind the program is extremely fast.

rari

George Somsel

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/462389#Comment_462389

To my mind the program is extremely fast.

rari

How fast is your mind? [:D] Just joking since it doesn't seem particularly slow to me either.

Fr Devin Roza

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/462301#Comment_462301

Now that Logos 5 is out, we're allocating more time to optimization and other improvements instead of just getting new features working. We have already made some speed improvements, and others are in the works. (In both apps and the web -- Logos.com has recently been sped up, too.)

This is great new. Thanks, Bob.

Ken McGuire

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/462392#Comment_462392

To my mind the program is extremely fast.

rari

How fast is your mind? Just joking since it doesn't seem particularly slow to me either.

I think that all of us who have sat in a theological library, surrounded by books, manually comparing various texts, still marvel at how fast Logos is. That said, the google generation would think otherwise. But google has some SERIOUS hardware behind that white screen...

Paul Golder

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/462430#Comment_462430

But google has some SERIOUS hardware behind that white screen...

Somewhere around 1,000,000 servers at current estimates, with a capacity of 10,000,000 for expansion.

One Google data center:

Francis

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/462301#Comment_462301

Now that Logos 5 is out, we're allocating more time to optimization and other improvements instead of just getting new features working.

That's great to hear. Thanks, Bob. Your updates are always much appreciated.

fgh

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/462430#Comment_462430

I think that all of us who have sat in a theological library, surrounded by books, manually comparing various texts, still marvel at how fast Logos is.

Certainly not me. As long as I keep finding half a dozen new bugs an hour -- besides having to deal with all the old ones -- there's no way I can do even 10% of the work I could do in a Library in the same amount of time.

tom

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/462037#Comment_462037

BW is dealing with a couple of hundred of resources. Logos, on my computer, is dealing with over 11,000. I am very happy to sacrifice some speed for the access to all those resources.

For the most part, the resources is not what is making the program slow. what is making the program slow is the program.

Simon

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/463588#Comment_463588

Yep need to separate out the UI from the DB engine behind it doing the leg work.

1) The UI is an ungainly beast. Screen updates, pull down menu refreshes etc .etc. are as slow as the charity cow. ;-)

2) The DB engine behind the UI seems quite reasonable considering the amount of data that often needs to be searched and or collated.

3) Been most encouraged to see marked stability improvements. I no longer dread opening Logos knowing that at some point in the current session it will die an ungainly death. BIG improvement in Logos 5. Thank you Logos!!!

When interacting with the Logos UI I feel the vast majority of my time is spent waiting! Seem to spend far too much time dealing with point 1 above. Constantly see myself waiting for screen updates, pulldown menus & list refreshes etc. before I can continue with other tasks. For example changing parameters of a style or simply running the mouse cursor over the list of highlighting styles is beyond painful. It's embarrassing! This is the stuff of windows 1 to 3.1 vintage applications. This is most disappointing and this charity cow pace in the UI is a constant hindrance to my work flow.

Address the UI performance and Logos will be EXCEPTIONAL.

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/463820#Comment_463820

Agree. But is it really nice to compare charity cows to Logos? They fly!

Simon

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/463827#Comment_463827

5555555555555 55 5 5 5 5 55 5 5 5 5 5 5

Woah nearly fell off my chair.

[;)]

Simon

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/463827#Comment_463827

5555555 55 5 5 55555 5 5 5 55 5 5

Woah! Nearly fell off my chair. [;)]

Josh

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/463857#Comment_463857

I remember when I switched from using a 28.8k modem to a 56k modem. Webpages on the internet were loading at lightning speeds!!! At least I thought so...

A little over ten years later technology has ruined my perception of time. If I have to wait longer than 10 seconds for a HD YouTube video to start playing I get frustrated.

Instead of thinking about how I wish Logos could save me a few more minutes each day, I think about how it is currently saving me several hours worth of work each day.

Simon

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/463865#Comment_463865

From my perspective it was different. I feel the UI in older versions of Logos were much more responsive than the current Logos 5 iterations to date.

Paul Golder

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/463865#Comment_463865

A little over ten years later technology has ruined my perception of time. If I have to wait longer than 10 seconds for a HD YouTube video to start playing I get frustrated.

You reminded me of an article I read in PC Magazine years and years ago. One of the editors had received one of the first dual processor PC's and was running Windows NT on it. His main subject of the piece was how he couldn't believe how much faster he was getting things done when he did not have to wait for the computer to catch up to him. He realized that he gotten used to taking a drink of coffee while waiting, and as a result of having a fast UI he was drinking a lot less coffee.

Made me think of this:

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/463905#Comment_463905

That's a good one.

George Somsel

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/463905#Comment_463905

Made me think of this:

He'd better watch that coffee or he'll have it in his lap.

Josh

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/463893#Comment_463893

From my perspective it was different. I feel the UI in older versions of Logos were much more responsive than the current Logos 5 iterations to date.

My point was that we have become impatient with having to wait less than a minute while a computer program is doing hours worth of work we no longer have to do during that same time. We have become extremely spoiled - and it shows!

Simon

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/464053#Comment_464053

Impatient?

8gigs of RAM. Dual Core 2.5+gig processor, 750gig HDD. Every other application I own has a UI which runs faster than the UI in Logos 5. Even the Linux apps I regularly run under VMware Fusion are crisp, snappy and a joy to use by orders of magnitude (yeah bit of a stretch but makes the point) compared to L5. (L-ow range, gear-5).

Personally I find this enigma embarrassing. Apps running in a VM running with faster UIs than native OS X apps. Go figure. We live in a strange world...

Others call this, "progress". For me it will be interesting to see which arrives first. A better Logos app or a better alternative. Personally I don't care either way just give me something that is reliable and helps me get my job done.

[|-)]

Looks like the Logos update utility has gone AWOL. Two update icons running in my desktop top menu bar in a dead lock. [N]

Simon

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/464797#Comment_464797

Interesting discovery: By undocking the "Highlighting" tab and running it in a separate detached window, screen updates in this detached window occur much, much faster to the extent they keep up with mouse movements!!! If the "Highlighting" tab is left attached as a tab in the main Logos window screen updates are so incredibly slow they quickly fall way behind any mouse movements.

Has this been observed by others.
Please comment.