Logos--The Future of Education?

What Logos has done, as outstanding as this has been for seminary students, pastors, preachers, and chaplains alike, I believe will apply to every area of research besides theological/Biblical, and has a future application for education in general. The effect of which stands a great chance of spawning a family/relational revival. Here's what I see:

Logos has created the ability to take any resource, no matter the size, from any publisher, and collect them digitally as a single, searchable, research-able database for each individual user. This database is then (as you all well know) instantly downloadable into a personal computer that you can take anywhere with you so that research is not dependent upon locale. The ability to create sound, deep, scholarly research is now transcendent to any location that might have served to house the resources required for such projects. Not to mention streamlined the actual researching process as it is. What once took an all-day trip to the library tracking down, searching through, and compiling resources, is reduced to simply opening your laptop.Though this has been applied to theological education for now, imagine this paradigm being applied in any field of education that calls for research of this nature.

What about colleges? Rather than requiring students to physically drive to their libraries, they could simply download the college library into their laptops/devices. Higher education, in terms of research, could be handled at home. Families would certainly be able to experience that research with them as they go, spawning conversation about it since they are not drawn away to the physical campus spending hours in the libraries.

What about public schools? children are becoming more technological savvy everyday. Many elementary school kids (I know many in my own hick town back in New Hampshire) are now carrying, using, downloading apps, and various other functions right on their cell phones. High school kids could conduct assignments, research, problems, etc. right at home with family. Elementary kids could be taught the beginnings of how to use downloadable systems, learn reading and writing, and later conduct reading plans with resources.

All these advancements would essentially decentralize the educational functions from out of the brick-n-mortar locations, and deliver them straight into the homes! Not to mention bring down the cost of education significantly, as they would no longer need to house many of those binder-and-page resources. This would include parents in the educational process a great deal more, encourage family learning and development, and ultimately become a set-up for better communities and revival across America.

One real-life example of this type of situation are the friends I've been able to help at seminary with their own digital libraries. After just a couple of semesters working with most of these folks, they went from intimidated with the "giant" library, and its 5-pound, thousand-page, resources, to working with those same resources inside logos and rising to the top of their classes as the go-to person of every course they were in (mostly for those who don't have the guts to get their own digital library). Once their families get exposure, the leadership-infection becomes inevitable and before I knew it, they were thanking me (i.e. "me?") for all the benefits they continue to get from a library they never stop tapping into. Of course, I had nothing to do with their benefits, cause they are the ones who are doing the "using" of their library--but that is the level of hunger people have for education. God is providing for that hunger with digital libraries.

Many colleges these days are realizing the immense benefit of digital resources.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QvoE3Ia21ME&feature=g-high-u

So, that's my little treatise. I open the floor to you all.

The days ahead surely look bright.

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Comments

KPK

Thanks for sharing. I agree with you.

I will be doing distant learning and logos will be my main tool!

My daughter is in a Christian school, and uses the software now. Did I tell you she's only 8. The passage list and word find puzzle is one she's starting to use now. Since it has released, we've been doing it together as she's trying to remember her scripture. Super fun!

I'm positive as she gets older will start using this software too. Love Logos and the digital world.

Rene Atchley

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/420309#Comment_420309

Yet somehow this promise of great educational opportunity misses classic theological tomes in pursuit of free sources over 100 years old in the public domain. My guess is that if theological education is going to be based on prepackaged bits of data we will all be converging on the same points of truth predigested for us on a colored charts. Great promise? Yes. Better education? Why do we need education when it comes up for us with a word search automatically.

David Paul

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/420333#Comment_420333

Yet somehow this promise of great educational opportunity misses classic theological tomes in pursuit of free sources over 100 years old in the public domain. My guess is that if theological education is going to be based on prepackaged bits of data we will all be converging on the same points of truth predigested for us on a colored charts. Great promise? Yes. Better education? Why do we need education when it comes up for us with a word search automatically.

Um, yeah, kinda, sorta...but not quite. What Logos does is allow speed and amplification of energy invested to be multiplied hundreds or thousands fold. But anyone not "educated" (i.e. capable of ruthlessly honest and insightful perception) won't be able to do anything significant with the tool. A man with tools and no training is a paperweight collector. A man with training and no tools is twiddling his thumbs. Anyone who uses tools knows that great tools can make a huge difference in the final product. Logos is a great tool...but skill must be applied or nothing of value is achieved.

Milford Charles Murray

The days ahead surely look bright

They most certainly do! Thank you kindly for sharing with us! *smile*

Peace to you! and .... Always Joy in the Lord!

Lynden O. Williams

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/420392#Comment_420392

JR, I am with you on the digital revolution. My first grader has to carry a bag laden down with books every day. Imagine if she had an ipad and or most of her books were digital?

My motto is: Everything ever written or spoken formatted for Logos Bible Software.

Dan Francis

Hardly call it the future… Things are better but still for the most part it is mostly dead white men as one person put it. Logos is trying to expand things but I think the users Logos really wants to go after won;t come because there is not enough for them. Nearly everyone i know who does't use Logos who i think might tell me that New Interpreter's Bible is the one resource they would mostly be interested in, indeed at this point the Interpretation series is really the most attractive thing for those i know. Westminster companion series shows promise but for less conservative/non evangelical Christians Logos' selection is ok but very light. Until Logos is bold enough to offer top rated mainstream resources without PrePub there are going to be limited growth for them in many sectors. Yes there are a fair number of us here who like to drink from many streams of thought, but obviously not enough to get some of the top rated resources into production. New customers who own no Logos products do not sign up for pre pub items on the off chance that one day they may get made. If Logos really wants to expand their base they need to look at getting many more liberal items. I am very happy to see they have got HarperColins Revised Bible Dictionary, and hope they are going after the Commentary and Study Bible, these are good starts that may draw more mainstream students into using Logos. I truly wish every Christian had Logos it has a lot to offer but needs more options to truly be the future of Bible study in my eyes.

-Dan

Luigi sam

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/420442#Comment_420442

often the Logos platform can limit the potential of extracting information because of the 'user interface'.

I think that there should be a fully fledged scripting language & query language.

otherwise bible students are stuck with the limitations of the Logos platform.

Dont get me wrong, I'm not saying that the Logos platform and features are bad,

I'm just saying that It is the natural Cause/Effect of a UI that can limit a users ability to get answers using because users cant use their own algorithms in a 'standard programming language/query language/ combination of both.

TCBlack

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/420450#Comment_420450

query language.

I do know that more advanced regular expression searches are coming down the pike. (read that on here somewhere.)

Kevin A. Purcell

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/420730#Comment_420730

I agree and disagree.

Digital books are the future, but Logos is not the only one doing it. What they're doing for bible study and Christian books, others are doing for other books. See the Apple book builder tool which helps users make immersive and interactive books for education. Adobe offers a simliar tool and their tools area available to anyone who wants to make them. They have a lot more resources than Logos to create such tools, so I don't fault Logos for not making as feature rich a tools (PBB is pretty good for our use).

If I was a book publisher I'd only do paper as a way to get the old folks and I'd put a lot of time and effort into Apple and Adobe's tools.

Eric Miller

Though it may seem to be a targeted audience. As a layman, I appreciate that I have a tool which allows me to dig as deep as I want. Phillip recognized the Words of Life as he pleaded with Christ. The same is true for many if not all of Logo's users. Coupled with the fact that we have been commanded to go out into all the world, baptizing in name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey all that I have commanded.

It seems to me "ALL THAT I HAVE COMMANDED" means the diligent study of Genesis 1:1 to Revelation 22:21. After all, how does one teach something they themselves have not learned? I don't believe the importance of this can be overstated. For what is really at stake here, is a matter of Life and Death! And that life may very well be my own.

As a former combat medic, I can tell you that loosing that first person does put the bigger picture into full reality. It revealed the absolute necessity for me to study and train for all I was worth. The Bible makes it very clear that we do have a moral obligation before God and Mankind, to study for all I'm worth?

In that light, to me Logo's Bible software, has a much bigger picture in mind then just educating a select few, but rather the Army of the Lord. Amen! Preaching and Teaching, are my spiritual gifts, however, It is my understanding that all of the gifts are given for one and only one purpose, to build the Kingdom of God.

Is not the whole world is at stake?

J Hale

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/422222#Comment_422222

I completely agree, education as we have it now, is extremely inefficient. Why would I want to ‘study’ for hours, trying to find out something that I could in minutes, or even seconds, with a simple internet, or e-book, search?

When I see a movie, show, or a photo, of someone searching for some information in a library, I ask myself, “Isn’t there a better way to search for information?” The answer is YES!

There is some debate on what is better for personal reading; a physical book, or an e-book, but as far as research is concerned, if the e-book keeps the page numbers, and is searchable, like Logos books are, then going digital is the best way to go.

As for higher education goes, you can do an internet search, and find various web sites that offer cheap, or even free, college courses. If you add to that, the ability to have all your text books on a tablet computer, then that would be great.

What will a college campus be used for? For collective, round-table type, discussions with fellow students, with a knowledgeable teacher/moderator, to help focus the discussion.

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/422730#Comment_422730

Just to play devil's advocate:

does Logos teach us the skills required to learn or does it simply provide the data?
does Logos encourage us to parrot back standard answers or to discriminate the arguments between possible answers?
does Logos provide the tools to do new research or simply to produce undergraduate level "repeat what is already known" papers/sermons/lessons
does Logos encourage us to capture the relevant questions or the supposed answers?
does Logos allow us to disagree with the experts on morphology, syntax, historical dates etc. and use our best information not theirs?
does Logos encourage us to collect data and arrange it in various visual forms to present as lessons/speeches?
does Logos present us with the opportunity to complete or create learning exercises - with sample as well as actual answers?

Ken McGuire

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/422730#Comment_422730

Nowadays, getting diploma is just for formality sake. Almost everything can be found over the internet can people can do self study about what they wanted to know or learn.

I disagree. While quite a bit of information is on the internet, this means that having the tools to filter the good from the bad is more important than ever. This means the critical skills learned in education and even the independent certification of the ability to do this (diplomas) is more important than ever.

J.R. Woods

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/467053#Comment_467053

You make an excellent point MJ, all I would say in response is that regardless of whatever tool we have at our disposal, the ultimate limitation comes down to how our attitude is toward the biblical call to seek knowledge and understanding. I you love to learn and grow, than having a digital library at you fingertips is a great tool that can facilitate that desire.

So while you are referencing the common objection to education in general--especially in today's world--the issue of "canned answers" and simple "collected data", I am trying to point out the key bottle-neck of education: getting people exposed to high level scholarly resources.

After all, that was one of the main needs that public education could satisfy besides the need for instruction--to house a library where students can come and be edified by what they read. How much more is it a blessing for students now that that same library can be delivered to each of them and with more powerful research tools to boot.

Yes, the issue of canned answers, and collected data, and all of that has permeated today's modern educational world. Anyone who succeeds in education I've noticed takes what the current researchers are offering for answers (i.e. the "data") and takes them heuristically to motivate them into new fields of study for their own.

I do appreciate your post.

NB.Mick

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/467053#Comment_467053

Guys & Gals, you make valid points, but I'm afraid that "Gail" is just a linkspammer for the website in his footnote.

J.R. Woods

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/420736#Comment_420736

Adobe offers a simliar tool

I understand what your saying, but this was the main objection I had from the Regent University Dean when he turned down my official proposal (with faculty recommendation and student testimonials) to start a Logos instructional at the seminary. The main disadvantage with Adobe compared to the Logos format is that there is not tool that I am aware of that will house thousands of adobe files in way that will be able to be searched such as Logos offers. That's really the main component to the efficiency is the housing in a single location toward which research tools are then applied for single results that are all internally hyper-linked to each other in their references.

In the future, with the way resources are becoming so scarce these days, I believe every area of study will catch on to efficiencies offered both financially and distributionally, that digital files offer and hard copy for educational purposes will simply become a less economically feasible, thus antiquated, form of offering educational materials. Individual files, whether in adobe format, or cutting down trees for binder and page format, will simply no longer be needed.

Again, that's just what I see in all this. I could be in left-field, I recognize.

J.R. Woods

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/420442#Comment_420442

I think the users Logos really wants to go after won;t come because there is not enough for them.

Hmm, good points, I would say that since over 100 seminaries have already made Logos a mandatory item on their curriculum, Logos has done a pretty good job selling to the users they really want to go after. My vision is that Logos will be mandatory for every seminary, recognizing that it is that same library that seminaries devote millions to every year. My heart is that every church staff in America would also require Logos for their staff, since a full-time staff has the most need for a higher education in their field but may not have the time or money for an official seminary education.

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/467068#Comment_467068

So while you are referencing the common objection to education in general-

Actually, neither I nor 2 of my 3 kids experienced "canned answers" or "collected data" education to any degree. But I do see traces of that type of mentality in the forums and in the structure of Logos. Example: read the commentaries' discussion of the issues regarding the structure of Gen 1:1-3 ... then look at all your syntax analysis tools. Where does the latter reflect the former?

Paul Golder

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/467179#Comment_467179

I have a computer in my pocket that I can access the sum total of all knowledge on.

I use it to yell at my friends and post pictures of my cat.

J.R. Woods

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/467179#Comment_467179

Example: read the commentaries' discussion of the issues regarding the structure of Gen 1:1-3

I can see you want to be adversarial. I don't. I think you misinterpreted my intention with my post--I wasn't asserting that education did have "canned answers"--that phrase was meant as an objection to your material, since you wanted to play devil's advocate, as you mentioned.

First, your reference to "the commentaries' discussion" (which one--Word, Tyndale, Expositors, NICOT, New Interpretors, et al) neither proves your point nor has coherence in its appeal because there are countless "commentaries" on the issue in the first chapters of Genesis and few say the same thing. The comment I made about "collected data" was quoting your issue with Logos, and I was simply trying to find a way to find it plausible, so I picked education in general, to which I have heard this kind of objection. No, I don't believe any education is essentially "canned answers" either. That's just me paraphrasing the spirit of your previous post. Of course the "syntax tools" of which there are many as well, do not match "the commentaries" (though which your referencing is impossible to tell from your response) because there are so many of each of these that they won't have the same authors, or method, or hermeneutical approach.

Second, MJ, That's what Logos is all about--exposing us to the scholars who have spent their lives studying this material from various perspectives and approaches so we, the lay people, have some diligent scholarly material with which to act as fodder for our own thoughts and perspective, based more on verifiable research (i.e. archeology, sociology, linguistics, rhetoric, etc) rather than simply run-on-opinion.

Look, MJ, the bottom line to my entire reason for making this forum post was simply to say that digitizing resources for allocation and distribution across geographic boundaries is simply the future of education in general. That race has already begun in the 100 or so seminaries that made Logos mandatory (which experience has told me will drive their students out of the library since they won't have need for it), and the countless other schools and churches that are converting many of their resources to digitally available format (hence, sermons are on I-Tunes now, churches are engaging satellite congregations, and many others). The day is coming not far from now when hard copy anything will be reduced to birth certificates and social security cards (assuming social security will even last)--and even these are complemented with fingerprint technology that is being installed in people's everyday laptops for security purposes! (which are digitally stored as well)

J.R. Woods

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/422730#Comment_422730

as far as research is concerned, if the e-book keeps the page numbers, and is searchable, like Logos books are, then going digital is the best way to go.

I heartily agree. Digital files are also better not only for searchable reasons, but also for practical reading reasons:

1) you can adjust or change the font to any size or style for easier reading (I can't stand small font to read),

2) you can adjust the brightness of the back screen for different eye comfort (I like bright, my wife likes duller) which you cannot do with a book--obviously (even if you buy a separate book light you cannot tell if there is contrast between the page tint and the bulb color, and you need to make constant adjustments, and other pesky querks),

3) the digital files never wear out or fade, and

4) whatever is written/highlighted in them can be taken out easily (unlike used books),

5) you can use hyper linking to all the background resources quoted in the book to deepen your research on the topic instantly

6) you can hyper link back to the book in your note files for future reference on other projects (which I did for my thesis in seminary)

7) you can place the same book in as many collections as you want to which you cannot with a hard copy version sitting on a shelf if you had actual "stacks" of collections

And countless others. There simply is no advantage to hard copy books other than appeal to personal preference to hold something in your hand, as several professors have relayed to me. Personally, I regard this as a cop-out, but to each their own, right?

Clearly, JHale, I could not agree with you more!

J.R. Woods

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/420333#Comment_420333

misses classic theological tomes in pursuit of free sources over 100 years old

I'm not quite sure I'm following you, those "tomes 100 years old" are the classics, are the not?

If you saying there is nothing current, I know that can't be true cause the portfolio base has hundreds of outstanding, current, high-scholarly level resources (JSNTS, McMaster, original language resources, dictionaries, etc).

Without doubt, Rene, they do offer books over 100 years old (the Bible having the best, of course), like Calvin's commentaries, Wesley's commentaries, Paul Bunyan, and others, but I would consider those classics, but none of those are free.

I assume you must mean the free resources like the Perseus resources, which would be 1000 years or so (could have missed a "0"), but those certainly are classics in many fields, so we don't appear to miss those either.

I appreciate your comment, Rene, I'm just trying to follow it, is all.

Matthew C Jones

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/467230#Comment_467230

I'm not quite sure I'm following you, those "tomes 100 years old" are the classics, are the not?

I agree. Just because an author is dead, or white or even male, does not negate the value of a work as a classic. Heaven help us if we relegate all works in the public domain to the trash heap. I find many modern "classics" rather tiresome.

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/467230#Comment_467230

I agree with you completely, JR. I had Libronix with the OL package and wore it out.

But Logos4/5 completely changed my studying. That sounds like using guides, etc, but I rarely use them. Just the 'books' and Logos quickly finding stuff.

I look at the picture of the little rooms at Ebla and Ugarit and Qumran, and then quietly pass through their writings almost effortlessly, long into the night.

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/467225#Comment_467225

I can see you want to be adversarial. I don't.

I had no intention to be adversarial in this sense. I apologize if it came across that way. I do have a problem with treating Logos as authoritative in the manner that some tools ask of users.

your reference to "the commentaries' discussion" (which one-

Take any group you wish - most discuss the question of whether Gen 1:1-3 should be treated as 1, 2 or 3 sentences and the potential effect of such decisions on the understanding of "before creation". Westermann gives a nice summary of a variety of commentators on the topic. My point is that the Logos syntax tagging chooses one of the possibilities which many users appear to take on Logos' authority. And the tagging doesn't allow me to revise it to say, "no, I'll take Rashi over Logos". Or a recent example in the forums occurred in the use of the dative as a direct object, I think it was. Logos is great at putting information and data at our fingertips. For myself, I find it lacking in even permitting me to make appropriate notes to think for myself. The later is what I want before I'll call Logos an educational tool rather than a research tool.

I don't disagree with you on the future of education - merely on how close we are to that future.

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/467228#Comment_467228

There simply is no advantage to hard copy books other than appeal to personal preference to hold something in your hand, as several professors have relayed to me.

I don't know why this is true, but my alma mater (Beloit College) finds that their current students what electronic format for the classroom and dead tree format for the dorm room. Obviously, one or both are usually leased - they don't want to buy twice.