I am giving some consideration to purchasing this resource from Logos. Anybody with first-hand knowledge about the text who can answer a concern I have about this resource would be appreciated. http://www.logos.com/product/7449/encountering-the-manuscripts-an-introduction-to-new-testament-paleography-and-textual-criticism
Looking at the product page for this book on Amazon, reviewer #3 expresses concern about several errors in the text. Has Logos addressed these problems?
The review can be found on the Amazon product page: http://www.amazon.com/Encountering-Manuscripts-Introduction-Testament-Paleography/dp/0805431454/ref=sr_1_6?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1363809059&sr=1-6&keywords=comfort+philip
I also have another question. Is the Greek Bundle, S http://www.amazon.com/Encountering-Manuscripts-Introduction-Testament-Paleography/dp/0805431454/ref=sr_1_6?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1363809059&sr=1-6&keywords=comfort+philip
a better deal than the Essentials for the New Testament? http://www.logos.com/product/3744/essentials-for-new-testament-greek-studies
-Thanks
Peace, Beloved! *smile*
I was just perusing the Logos Forums; and, while I have nothing to say about your "need," I DO have something to say as a word of commendation!
I definitely want to commend you for your "due diligence" in analysing potential purchases over against quality and usefulness! You most certainly are practicing Christian Stewardship! *smile*
Milford,
I humbly say, Thank You
I have both the Logos version and the paper version and I am unaware of any typos so I am interested in seeing if others can point these out.
From my limited perspective I consider it a good introduction to textual criticism.
Bruce,
Are you able to confirm or negate the 3rd reviewer's claim? See his comment below:
The book has one extremely odd characteristic. Whole paragraphs, sometimes whole pages of text, are repeated verbatim in different parts of the book. One must assume that the author pasted in text from another document that he had written, and then forgot that he had already done this - on numerous occasions. Thus, for example, many paragraphs on pp. 47-48 are identical with those on pp 276-7. Likewise, part of page 49 is identical to page 278. The last paragraph of p. 97 and the first paragraph of p. 98 are identical with sections of two paragraphs on p. 278. Many paragraphs of pp 281-2 = pp. 296-7.Taking the book through a proper editing process should also result in the correction of the relatively small number of spelling errors (including in German and French), and the correction of non-standard punctuation in places (as, for instance, when a full stop is followed by the first letter of the next sentence, without a space). I also note that an unusual Greek font is used in which the final "s" of words has the form of a Latin script "s" (or perhaps they accidentally selected the wrong font for that letter?).
Are you able to confirm or negate the 3rd reviewer's claim? See his comment below: The book has one extremely odd characteristic. Whole paragraphs, sometimes whole pages of text, are repeated verbatim in different parts of the book. One must assume that the author pasted in text from another document that he had written, and then forgot that he had already done this - on numerous occasions. Thus, for example, many paragraphs on pp. 47-48 are identical with those on pp 276-7. Likewise, part of page 49 is identical to page 278. The last paragraph of p. 97 and the first paragraph of p. 98 are identical with sections of two paragraphs on p. 278. Many paragraphs of pp 281-2 = pp. 296-7.
The book has one extremely odd characteristic. Whole paragraphs, sometimes whole pages of text, are repeated verbatim in different parts of the book. One must assume that the author pasted in text from another document that he had written, and then forgot that he had already done this - on numerous occasions. Thus, for example, many paragraphs on pp. 47-48 are identical with those on pp 276-7. Likewise, part of page 49 is identical to page 278. The last paragraph of p. 97 and the first paragraph of p. 98 are identical with sections of two paragraphs on p. 278. Many paragraphs of pp 281-2 = pp. 296-7.
have not examined ALL but there are some in the 47- and 276- range for a few pages
The first time he talks about document production in general. the second time he 'seems' to go over the same ground but in more detail. the duplicate text 'seem' to fit in both places [[this is from a spot check of the pages - have read a lot of the book but have not studied it line by line - hopefully others will also report]]
Eusebius, the first church historian, witnessed the persecution and wrote of the many savage atrocities committed by the Romans against the Christians.
[1] Philip Comfort, Encountering the Manuscripts: An Introduction to New Testament Paleography & Textual Criticism, 276 (Nashville, TN: Broadman & Holman, 2005).
Eusebius, the first church historian, witnessed the persecution and wrote of the many atrocities committed by the Romans against Christians
[1] Philip Comfort, Encountering the Manuscripts: An Introduction to New Testament Paleography & Textual Criticism, 47 (Nashville, TN: Broadman & Holman, 2005).
David,
I take it this is excerpted from the Logos edition. As such does anyone know whether the typo procedure would be the way to address this erratum?
Are you able to confirm or negate the 3rd reviewer's claim? See his comment below: The book has one extremely odd characteristic. Whole paragraphs, sometimes whole pages of text, are repeated verbatim in different parts of the book. One must assume that the author pasted in text from another document that he had written, and then forgot that he had already done this - on numerous occasions. Thus, for example, many paragraphs on pp. 47-48 are identical with those on pp 276-7. Likewise, part of page 49 is identical to page 278. The last paragraph of p. 97 and the first paragraph of p. 98 are identical with sections of two paragraphs on p. 278. Many paragraphs of pp 281-2 = pp. 296-7. have not examined ALL but there are some in the 47-48 and 276-7 range Eusebius, the first church historian, witnessed the persecution and wrote of the many savage atrocities committed by the Romans against the Christians. [1] Philip Comfort, Encountering the Manuscripts: An Introduction to New Testament Paleography & Textual Criticism, 276 (Nashville, TN: Broadman & Holman, 2005). Eusebius, the first church historian, witnessed the persecution and wrote of the many atrocities committed by the Romans against Christians [1] Philip Comfort, Encountering the Manuscripts: An Introduction to New Testament Paleography & Textual Criticism, 47 (Nashville, TN: Broadman & Holman, 2005).
have not examined ALL but there are some in the 47-48 and 276-7 range
I just had a post almost ready to go when David answered for me. I did not notice before but it seems like the review is pretty accurate. Here is another quote from page 97-97
At this time Lucian’s text began to be propagated by bishops going out from the Antiochan school p 98 to churches throughout the East, taking the text with them. Lucian’s text soon became the standard text of the Eastern church and formed the basis for the Byzantine text. Century after century—from the sixth to the fourteenth—the great majority of New Testament manuscripts were produced in Byzantium, all bearing the same kind of text.
Compare this to quote on page 278
. Lucian’s text began to be propagated by bishops going out from the Antiochan school to churches throughout the east, taking the text with them. Lucian’s text soon became the standard text of the Eastern church and formed the basis for the Byzantine text—and is thus the ultimate authority for the Textus Receptus.
Although it is not identical there certainly are repeated words. I'm impressed that the person who review the book actually discovered these.
edit: delete.
I am not sure that they are typos. there are differences in the sections of text. paragraphs are reused with other material inter spaced between.
Could not figure out how to open two copies of the same resource so I copied the section 47- about 55 and made a DUMMY PBB to compare with the section 276
the paragraphs seem to fit in both places.
Yes David,
I do agree. They appear to be more extensive than typos. How do they read in context? Do they follow the extant body of the argument or are they out of context?
they are in context [still reading]
Thanks for your analysis David,
As probably many on this forum will know. Repeating your argument and using consistent language is not unusual in thesis writing. Perhaps this explains what Comfort has done in this work.
Despite this awkward style the reviewers have consistently given this work high marks and favorable reviews.
On your other point of reporting typos: my understanding is that this only gets Logos to compare their electronic edition with the original, not to fix issues with the original.
Would need Logos to confirm this.
I had to leave the conversation last night but I'm back. Your last statement is a good summary. This is still a quality resource.
I also have another question. Is the Greek Bundle, S http://www.amazon.com/Encountering-Manuscripts-Introduction-Testament-Paleography/dp/0805431454/ref=sr_1_6?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1363809059&sr=1-6&keywords=comfort+philip a better deal than the Essentials for the New Testament? http://www.logos.com/product/3744/essentials-for-new-testament-greek-studies
Regular price $ 29.95 => http://www.logos.com/product/7449/encountering-the-manuscripts-an-introduction-to-new-testament-paleography-and-textual-criticism
Essentials reg. price $ 64.95 (3 volumes) => http://www.logos.com/product/3744/essentials-for-new-testament-greek-studies
has two resources included in Greek Bundle S $ 135.90 (6 volumes) => http://www.logos.com/product/28214/greek-studies-bundle-s
while all Essential resources are in Greek Bundle M $ 259.90 (12 volumes) => http://www.logos.com/product/28215/greek-bundle-m that also includes => http://www.logos.com/product/17844/a-textual-guide-to-the-greek-new-testament
Thankful for bundles having dynamic upgrade pricing; only pay for new resources. Larger bundles have lower price per resource.
Keep Smiling [:)]
Essentials reg. price $ 64.95 (3 volumes) => http://www.logos.com/product/3744/essentials-for-new-testament-greek-studies has two resources included in Greek Bundle S $ 135.90 (6 volumes) => http://www.logos.com/product/28214/greek-studies-bundle-s
When you compare the packages do the titles offered in Bundle Small are they better than those offered in Essential? Would I be missing a really great resource if I passed and went for Essentials? And for that matter is the Comfort offering alone the best value?
Disclaimer: Thankful for a Logos payment plan that includes Logos 5 Portfolio (Nov 2012) plus Master Bundle XL (Dec 2012) => http://www.logos.com/product/29174/master-bundle-xl A subset of resources were more valuable than package and bundle sales price. Thankful for the "free" Library additions, whose contents can be searched using Logos.
Greek Bundle S has six volumes, including two in *Essentials for New Testament Greek Studies:
1) Moulton & Milligan's Vocabulary => http://www.logos.com/product/5773/vocabulary-of-the-greek-testament that is referenced 4,700 times in BDAG
2) David Alan Black's Learn to Read New Testament Greek => http://www.logos.com/product/5196/learn-to-read-new-testament-greek
*3) Philip Comfort's Encountering the Manuscripts => http://www.logos.com/product/7449/encountering-the-manuscripts-an-introduction-to-new-testament-paleography-and-textual-criticism
4) Richard A Young's Intermediate New Testament Greek => http://www.logos.com/product/3431/intermediate-new-testament-greek-a-linguistic-and-exegetical-approach
5) James Hope Moulton's An Introduction to the Study of New Testament Greek => http://www.logos.com/product/10276/an-introduction-to-the-study-of-new-testament-greek
*6) Kendall H Easley's User-Friendly Greek => http://www.logos.com/product/7448/user-friendly-greek-a-common-sense-approach-to-the-greek-new-testament includes reference to UBS4 with Discourse Segmentation Apparatus. For Greek Discourse, personally like => http://www.logos.com/product/3888/lexham-discourse-greek-new-testament-bundle
The third volume of Essentials for New Testament Greek Studies is Ray Summer's Essentials of New Testament Greek => http://www.logos.com/product/7447/essentials-of-new-testament-greek-revised that has content similar to David Alan Black's and James Hope Moulton's books in Greek Bundle S.
Thanks KS4J!
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