Did Melchizedek pay tithes to Abraham? Logos 5 says, Yes!

While a good effort has been put forth on the part of Logos, we must remember that inerrancy applies to the Scripture, not to Logos.

Our data, and hence research, are as good as the level of accuracy of our tools. I always prefer quality data over quantity; however, with today's technology, I don't see why Logos can't provide exhaustive referents.

Right click on the pronouns "he" and "him" in Gen. 14:20 to see the person mislabeled.

This is simply a mistake in the pronoun tagging,

I  don't see where the referents are indicating that Melchizedek paid a tithe to Abraham. The referents are correct for Gen 14:20b, but is not for 14:20c, where the NIV translates it as..."Then Abram gave him a tenth of everything."  The "him" points to Abram, as if he gave himself a tenth.  Good thing our modern English translations,such as NIV, ESV, NLT, and others, are clear about who gave to whom.

The NLT, my favorite translation when I read the Old Testament, says:

"Then Abram gave Melchizedek a tenth of all the goods he had recovered."

Cheers,

David

Good thing our modern English translations,such as NIV, ESV, NLT, and others, are clear about who gave to whom.

I struck out before I began to play & consequently never made it to first base. Maybe I should take a swing and cry foul.

The same issue was brought up a few months ago as well:

http://community.logos.com/forums/p/62843/443239.aspx

Thanks for pointing this out, guys. We're looking into this and the data should receive an update if necessary.

Bro.[Apostle} George,

Bootjack.

one of you can stand on the plate, get hit with the pitch, the one hit gets to go to first base, the other is the runner fr the batter....then the real question can become "Who's on first?" since matter cannot occupy the same space as other matter, one will have to get called out.....

Good thing our modern English translations,such as NIV, ESV, NLT, and others, are clear about who gave to whom.

  Who's on first? 

I struck out with the curve balls thrown. [*-)]

Yes, this is an error in the referent annotation. We've fixed it internally: that fix should get shipped sometime in the next month or so.

Bro.[Apostle} George,

Bootjack.

one of you can stand on the plate, get hit with the pitch, the one hit gets to go to first base, the other is the runner fr the batter....then the real question can become "Who's on first?" since matter cannot occupy the same space as other matter, one will have to get called out.....

For the benefit of those not familiar with the famous comedy skit

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=airT-m9LcoY

For the benefit of those not familiar with the famous comedy skit

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=airT-m9LcoY

i have always loved this skit!

Thanks so much, George!                 Unfortunately, now I feel my age!     *smile*           But!     I'm still smiling!  Great memories, eh??

Thanks for the memories!

Yes, this is an error in the referent annotation. We've fixed it internally: that fix should get shipped sometime in the next month or so.

It seems that this issue hasn't been completely fixed.

I still see Gen 14:20c in error.  The verse states "And he gave him a tithe of all."

L5 still shows "he" as Melchizedek and "him" as Abraham (when you right-click on the word).  So, L5 still has Melchizedek giving Abraham a tithe.

It seems that this issue hasn't been completely fixed.

Yes. The LHB phrase "gave him" is still showing that Melchizedek gave Abram. The interlinears take their cue from that

This is an interesting problem.  I'm referring to Logos' work, effectively becoming a commentary with nameless authorship (a team, as Bob calls it). 

I was happily reading BAR Nov/Dec 1982 where it said Hiram was doing bronze on the Jordan plain (1 KI 7.45-46).  That caught my eye due to the geology (sand/clay process), the question of where Hiram was getting the tin, and most importantly why he was doing it on the Jordan plain far from 'home'?

Turning to my trusty Logos5, Logos insisted, no, it was Solomon (through kingly delegation) doing the  bronze work on the Jordan plain.  Of course, the answer turned on 'king' ... which one?  2 CH 4.16 solved it by dumping it.

It seems that this issue hasn't been completely fixed.

Yes. The LHB phrase "gave him" is still showing that Melchizedek gave Abram. The interlinears take their cue from that

Yes, it appears the annotation here is still incorrect. I'll make sure it gets fixed.

Thanks, Sean

Is there more information on this topic. When I read Genesis 14.....the way it’s worded, it appears Melchizedek paid tithes to Abraham.

That being said....how do we handle the wording in Hebrews 7.

Trying to find this view on the internet is nearly impossible.

Thanks.

I'm referring to Logos' work, effectively becoming a commentary with nameless authorship (a team, as Bob calls it). 

Given the lack of reporting of obvious errors ... I find this troubling and very consciously fight against the tendency to believe the data presented.

Is there more information on this topic. When I read Genesis 14.....the way it’s worded, it appears Melchizedek paid tithes to Abraham.

That being said....how do we handle the wording in Hebrews 7.

Trying to find this view on the internet is nearly impossible.

Thanks.

Not sure your question. Gen 14 doesn't identify the referrents; ergo opinions. The major translations (LXX, Syriac, and then Latin) similarly avoid identification. Jewish tradition as in the Targums, and then later discussed by Jerome and Ephrem, solved the problem by identifying Shem as Melchi Sedek (Shem living until Isaac). The Babylonian Talmud makes it clear why Shem is significant (b. Ned. 3:11g).

Heb 7, interestingly, doesn't follow that tradition.

I find this troubling and very consciously fight against the tendency to believe the data presented.

I avoid the fray by having never used any of the pre-masticated datasets fabricated by FL. I suppose it helps that I mostly use L3...and that I generally prefer to chew my own food.

Is there more information on this topic. When I read Genesis 14.....the way it’s worded, it appears Melchizedek paid tithes to Abraham.

That being said....how do we handle the wording in Hebrews 7.

Trying to find this view on the internet is nearly impossible.

Thanks.

Just to be clear, James, this thread started based on an earlier error in Logos annotation (now fixed). The Hebrew is ambiguous, with "___ gave him a tenth of everything", without an explicit subject and a pronoun as the object. Many modern translations interpret the subject as Abraham, consistent with Heb 7:2: you can see from the Text Comparison tool, and Logos' annotation represents the same perspective. I'd recommend a Passage Guide on Gen 14:20 to dig into commentaries and their views on this passage. 

When I read Genesis 14.....the way it’s worded, it appears Melchizedek paid tithes to Abraham.

As most translations correctly use "him" for the Hebrew pronoun, we have to deduce that "him" refers to Melchizedek in the context. But it is tagged as Melchizedek in reverse interlinear bibles. The ones that translate it as "Melchizedek" (for clarity) are NET, NLT, CEV, GNB, Living, and NCV - even The Message translates as "him".

The Greek pronoun in Hebrews 7:2 is treated similarly. Only NLT, God's Word, Living, and Passion translate as "Melchizedek".

The part of v.2 that explains the name (including v.3)  is without pronouns in the Greek and an English pronoun is inserted several times. A few bibles insert "Melchizedek" at the start for clarity e.g. "Melchizedek means..."