Moody titles will be going away

Super Tramp said:

btw: Logos has purged the website of all copyrighted Moody titles except the AM Bible Courseware.

Noticed Vyrso has 689 Moody resources (with 9 added in a day) => http://vyrso.com/products/search?Publisher=Moody

Super Tramp said:

Let me recommend to anyone contemplating a big Moody purchase today to call sales immediately and see if they can give you any discounts.   They did not disappoint me.

Wallet crying [:'(] after friendly call to Logos sales [:D]

Keep Smiling [:)]

David J. Wilson said:

Bruce Dunning said:

This is my biggest concern as well. What guarantees do we have that more may not be soon to follow?

  Absolutely no guarantees that more may not follow:   However this is NOT a new phenomenon.   There have been many examples over the years of publishers wanting different terms and lack of agreement resulting in publications being pulled from Logos. Some have not returned, some have. An example often cited in other threads is the ACCS.  This was pulled with many noticing until it was too late.  Given it was initially available in CD format there are still ways to get it: but all third party CDs sales run a risk of finding the license code has been registered before by someone else.   Publishers get absorbed into larger organizations with different business models.  Some publishers start with the intent of making their books available for the benefit of the wider Church and unchurched people as a form of outreach in a non profit or low profit mode. Others are in business solely for the benefit of shareholders, stilll others have a variable compromise between the two.   Publishers who see Logos as just another electronic retailler for their products will not appreciate the value added that Logos customers see in this format and the significant expense in developing and maintaining the Logos platforms.  They may not understand and appreciate that many Logos customers are not willing to use ther productes just as readily from an entirely different less capable electronic platform.  Many still do not understand why so many people have left behind the paper platform.   While publishers may change retail outlets based on lack of agreement on terms and royalties, so may authors change publishers.  As the whole electronic book publishing business evolves we can expect to see swings in marketting practices as retaillers, publishers and authors try to influence the way the market evolves.  Some will adapt, some will not.  Those who want mass market inexpensive books just to read once and then discard are not in the same market segment as those who want a valuable reference library of works that are easy to search and study with as Logos provides. Not all electronic book publishers and not all customers understand that. Probably many never will. Many are more interested in their own perspective and being heard in asking why things are not done their way: much more interested than they are in hearing the answers.   If in today's market a publisher provides an electronic retailler with a "book" in electronic format, those who do little more than convert it to PDF and market the result, can afford to pay much more in royalties than those who add significant value to the electronic file AND provide much more than a simple reading engine.  Maybe there are some publishers whose products would be better suited to Vyrso than to Logos. Moody was probably one who should have spent more time to understand that that some of their products fall into each camp.  Perhaps some of their books should never have been in Logos but rather in Vyrso (but at a time when Vyrso did not yet exist).   Publishers do indeed have many electronic book platform options these days. But one size does not fit all book types.  Authors also have many more options these days because they can produce in electronic form and have the end product marketted in electronic form. A publisher only adds value if there is a significant value added between the original and marketted electronic form (here Logos gets an A+) AND the publisher is in touch with and has a great relationship with a large customer base interested in and likely to purchase the marketted form (again an A+ for Logos).  If I were a publisher in Moody's position where would I see myself fitting in that image of the future of electronic books.

David, I appreciated reading your post for you have many good observations within it. In the future I would appreciate it if you would create more paragraphs within longer posts like this for I found it very difficult to visually wade through you last post. Maybe it is just me but I think it would make your posts more readable.

Bruce Dunning said:

In the future I would appreciate it if you would create more paragraphs within longer posts like this for I found it very difficult to visually wade through you last post.

Bruce,

have mercy on David, since most probably this is a bug in the forum software which exists for some time now. I experienced this regularly when using IE9 instead of Chrome, but today the software took away paragraphs from Chrome-posted text from me also. 

Mick

EDIT: you just replied to a post from me in another thread (Spicq) which is three paragraphs but the forum software makes it one ugly block of text.

Super Tramp said:

Super Tramp said:

Logos lists 20 publishers (including Moody)

I counted exactly 20 publishers, including Moody, when I posted the above. Now that Moody has been removed from the list I still count 20 publishers. I wonder who the addition is.....

Jack Caviness said:

Bama may not have experienced this

I have not experienced it… but my comment was only about quoting a portion of another's post (as I have just done). I assume that you normally use safari? Some posters seem to suggest that it is browser specific. Whatever the case, the forums are VERY buggy. 

Michael Childs said:

Dean053 said:

Moody is probably my least represented publisher--I've bought nothing unless it has come in a package. Is Moody really that important for most Logos users?

It is important to a sizable number.  There would not be 15 plus pages of comments on this thread if no one cared.  John MacArthur is a big seller, for example.  Whether or not he matters to you, it will effect Logos in my opinion.

In pure product numbers, Moody was among the top seven publishers ( http://www.logos.com/publishers?sort=count#goM ) with more products than e.g. Fortress, Zondervan, SPCK or Crossway, much more than e.g. IVP and Tyndale combined. No idea how that turned out saleswise.

FWIW, it seems Moody is still #5 in the Vyrso publisher ranking, but we all know Vyrso is much less well suited for commentaries and theology stuff that profits from extensive cross-linking.

NB.Mick said:

Tom, the automated scripture tagging for Vyrso is not capable of getting commentaries right. Thus, it resolves about 90% wrong (and wrong scripture links are worse than none) - actually, following the massive complaints in the forum about Vyrso commentaries, Logos has pulled all but three vyrso books from the respective category and one of the three seems a mis-attribution to me, the other two are showcases for not to do commentaries in Vyrso.

I knew that it wasn't great but I didn't realize that it was quite that bad.

Mark Barnes said:

Bruce Dunning said:

I knew that it wasn't great but I didn't realize that it was quite that bad.

It's not the most edifying discussion, but see here: http://community.logos.com/forums/t/56892.aspx and here: http://community.logos.com/forums/t/63017.aspx (there are responses from Logos employees, including Bob, on the second page).

Basically, with Vyrso, you get no page numbers (usually), no Bible milestones, and any partial Bible references (such as v2, rather than Col 3:2) are likely to end up linked to the wrong place. The latter two problems essentially render Vyrso commentaries little better than Kindle books.

Thanks Mark, Somehow I missed both of these conversations last fall/winter. Although it wasn't easy to read it did help provide a better understanding of things.