Displaying Latin translation in Book of Concord (Tappert edition)

Peace, Michael! God Bless you on your preparations to serve Him in the future! *smile*

Tappert does not have the German and Latin! It is an English Translation. It does NOT contain the Latin and the German!

When I was a Lutheran Seminarian over 50 years ago, Tappert was just coming out! I guess I must have gotten one of the first ones. However, my tutelage was under the auspices of The Rev. Dr. Arthur Carl Piepkorn, my Professor, who required us to use an edition of the Bekenntnisschriften which I've since given away! When we had a test he permitted us to have the book with us for many of his tests since he said that if we knew Latin and German we were half way there. The unfortunate thing about his tests was that he deducted the number of wrong answers from the number of correct answers so you could do pretty poorly if you guessed too much! *smile*

One of these days I'm going to purchase, Deo Volente, theTriglotta since I've given my Bekenntnisschrfiften to one of our Canadian Seminaries.

I believe Northwestern Publishing carries it; and Logos carries Northwestern's Resources; however, I haven't checked it out lately.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/483484#Comment_483484

Hi Milford,

Thanks for your quick reply. Apologies if I didn't make it clear, but I am looking for the translation of the Latin in my Logos resource, not the original language text itself. The translation that is currently displayed in Logos comes from the German text only, so effectively only shows half of Tappert's work (the hard copy of Tappert which I have displays the English translation of both the German and Latin text). Please let me know if this is unclear.

Thanks again,

Michael

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/483486#Comment_483486

aha! Sorry, Michael! Will do that immediately!

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/483487#Comment_483487

OK! My apologies! That is a separate resource. Also by Tappert! I have them both and forgot at this late hour for me in Eastern Canada that I have them both.

Very sorry, Michael!

Here is the title:

The Augsburg Confession

Translated from the Latin

Translated and edited by

Theodore G. Tappert

in collaboration with

Jaroslav Pelikan, Robert H. Fischer, and Arthur C. Peipkorn

Rosie Perera

I think I found the explanation.

There is a footnote on the heading ARTICLES OF FAITH AND DOCTRINE of the Augsburg Confession that reads: "The print edition of The Book of Concord contains two versions of the Augsburg Confession. The version presented below is the English translation based on the German text of the Augsburg Confession. Mr. Tappert also presents an English translation based on the Latin text of the Augsburg Confession. The translation from the Latin is also available with the title of The Augsburg Confession, Translated from the Latin. Note that the English translation from the Latin will scroll synchronously with this volume, simply use the “link” button in the book window to link the texts together for synchronous scrolling."

I could not find a Logos resource titled "The Augsburg Confession, Translated from the Latin."

Sounds like it was something Logos used to sell but does not anymore. See http://library.glcc.edu/library/Libronix%20Bibliography.htm and search for that title.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/483489#Comment_483489

Thanks Milford, that explains it. I do not appear to have that resource in my library. Strange that it is not bundled with the Tappert BoC. I'll have to ask Logos support about it.

I appreciate your responses at this late hour. Have a good night!

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/483492#Comment_483492

Hi Rosie,

Thanks for that explanation. I couldn't find the resource on the Logos site either - I'll send support an email to see what my options are for getting a copy.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/483494#Comment_483494

Hmm - I got both with Luther's Works back when I got the CDROM from Amazon years ago.

Kolb-Wengert does the same thing, having the translation of the Latin Augustana as a separate resource.

SDG

Ken McGuire

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/483489#Comment_483489

Peace, Michael! I'm so sorry that I cannot remember where and how I got this Translated From The Latin Tappert book!

I've been using Logos resources for 20 years this Spring and have had my Lutheran Resources for a long, long time; and I am thrilled to have it; however I just can't remember acquiring. Perhaps with my Luther's Works??? But, then, you would have that too...

I'll be

OK! My apologies! That is a separate resource. Also by Tappert! I have them both and forgot at this late hour for me in Eastern Canada that I have them both.

Very sorry, Michael!

Here is the title:

The Augsburg Confession

Translated from the Latin

Translated and edited by

Theodore G. Tappert

in collaboration with

Jaroslav Pelikan, Robert H. Fischer, and Arthur C. Peipkorn

following this thread diligently to learn the answer to this personal riddle! Meanwhile, God Bless you -- truly and richly! *smile*

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/483497#Comment_483497

Thanks much, Rosie and Ken! *smile*

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/483497#Comment_483497

Interesting, Ken. I bought Luther's Works online so the resources available may have changed slightly. I've emailed Logos, will let you know what happens.

Because I already had 2 copies of Tappert (+ 2 of the Bekenntnisschriften) I didn't think I needed Kolb-Wengert as well [:D].

Thanks,

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/483503#Comment_483503

Hi All,

Thanks again for your assistance. I got an email back from Logos a few days' ago to say that they no longer sell the Latin translation in Tappert, so I'll just have to stick with my hard copy (not a big deal for me).

God bless,

Michael

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/484778#Comment_484778

Hi All,

Thanks again for your assistance. I got an email back from Logos a few days' ago to say that they no longer sell the Latin translation in Tappert, so I'll just have to stick with my hard copy (not a big deal for me).

God bless,

Michael

Peace, Michael!

............ and God Bless You! *smile* You sound like a very diligent and dedicated young scholar.

Sorry that this is a bit of a "bummer" for you! ........... but you're handling it well! Indeed!

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/483503#Comment_483503

Good Morning Michael,

I think I have been able to track down the source of The Augsburg Confession Translated from the Latin by Tappert. It took me a while, but I think I obtained my copy when I purchased the Concordia Electronic Theological Library: Collection 4. Concordia Publishing House is a publishing partner with Logos and used to sell the Theolgical Library directly. Collection 4 is currently still available from Logos for $40.99. It comes with three other resources that I used while at Concordia Seminary, St. Louis.

The print version of Tappert's Book of Concord' Augsburg confess on has the text of the English translation of the German text on the top of the page, separated by a solid line from the English translation of the Augsburg on the lower half part of the page. In the electronic edition, you open both resources, The book of Concord, and the Augsburg Confession and link them. They then scroll together.

Here is the info for the Augsburg from my library:

LLS:16.0.11
2002-08-08T19:04:44Z
acmirror.lbxlls

Blessings to you as you continue your studies.

Wayne

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/486078#Comment_486078

I think I have been able to track down the source of The Augsburg Confession Translated from the Latin by Tappert. It took me a while, but I think I obtained my copy when I purchased the Concordia Electronic Theological Library: Collection 4. Concordia Publishing House is a publishing partner with Logos and used to sell the Theolgical Library directly. Collection 4 is currently still available from Logos for $40.99.

Wayne,

the Concordia ETL Collection 4 contains the "normal" BoC translation by Tappert, i.e. LLS:16.0.10 - bkconcrd.lbxlls. So either this has changed (why) or your copy came from another source.

Mick

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/486084#Comment_486084

I suspect that those of us who received this on disc from Lutheran Publishers included both, and that Logos didn't realize the importance of having both when they went cloud based. Of course, I have no evidence for my suspicion. We should probably politely email Gabe (The Lutheran Product manager) about this.

SDG

Ken McGuire

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/486084#Comment_486084

I think I have been able to track down the source of The Augsburg Confession Translated from the Latin by Tappert. It took me a while, but I think I obtained my copy when I purchased the Concordia Electronic Theological Library: Collection 4. Concordia Publishing House is a publishing partner with Logos and used to sell the Theolgical Library directly. Collection 4 is currently still available from Logos for $40.99.

Wayne,

the Concordia ETL Collection 4 contains the "normal" BoC translation by Tappert, i.e. LLS:16.0.10 - bkconcrd.lbxlls. So either this has changed (why) or your copy came from another source.

Mick

Peace, Good Brothers! *smile*

Just in case my information can be helpful to you here it is:

My Augsburg Confession (translated from the Latin) (Fortress Press) is

LLS:16.0.112002-08-08T19:04:44Zacmirror.lbxlls

My Tappert BofC is

LLS:16.0.102007-08-03T23:25:21ZBKCONCRD.lbxlls

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/486091#Comment_486091

Hi Milford, good to "see" you

I dug out my old Libronix disk from CPH (Concordia Publishing House for non LC-MM folks) and verified that that is where my copy of the Tappert Book of Concord came from. I checked the files that I have in Logos 5 and I have the same files that you do.

A Tappert Book of Concord without the full English text of the Augsburg Confession would not be a true representation of the Tappert Book of Concord would it? [;)]

Concordia changed their distribution of the Concordia Electronic Theological Library about 12-18 months ago. They found it cumbersome to deal with issuing the proper codes to unlock the Libronix editions and Logos was moving to Logos 5. I think that folks who have the The Book of Concord by Tappert will find that they also have The Augsburg Confession,Translated from the Latin. As I pointed out in my previous reply when the two resources (we call 'em books) are both open they can be linked and the comparison of the text is easier that in the print edition!!

Blessings! I need to go and finish the last bit of tomorrow morning's Bible Study on the Letters of John: Christ and the Antichrists (1 Jn 2:18-27).

Wayne

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/486193#Comment_486193

Hi Milford, good to "see" you

I dug out my old Libronix disk from CPH (Concordia Publishing House for non LC-MM folks) and verified that that is where my copy of the Tappert Book of Concord came from. I checked the files that I have in Logos 5 and I have the same files that you do.

A Tappert Book of Concord without the full English text of the Augsburg Confession would not be a true representation of the Tappert Book of Concord would it?

Concordia changed their distribution of the Concordia Electronic Theological Library about 12-18 months ago. They found it cumbersome to deal with issuing the proper codes to unlock the Libronix editions and Logos was moving to Logos 5. I think that folks who have the The Book of Concord by Tappert will find that they also have The Augsburg Confession,Translated from the Latin. As I pointed out in my previous reply when the two resources (we call 'em books) are both open they can be linked and the comparison of the text is easier that in the print edition!!

Blessings! I need to go and finish the last bit of tomorrow morning's Bible Study on the Letters of John: Christ and the Antichrists (1 Jn 2:18-27).

Wayne

Blessings on your studies for tomorrow morning, Wayne! *smile*

A few years ago my wife and I "took in" Virginia and Maryland and the D.C. area from this part of Eastern Canada! Really enjoyed it! Some beautiful country where you live also, eh???

(I will always remember standing and meditating in Arlington National Cemetery, from where one can see the Pentagon and much else! -- and all of it 5 days before the horrors of 9-11. We got back to Canada by the St. Lawrence Seaway and the Thousand Islands and Gananoque the day before 9-11 and were on a boat trip on the St. Lawrence between our two countries as 9-11 was happening. Etched in my memory. The horror of it, eh?!)

I'm an old retired alumnus of St. Louis, 1962, part of the so-called "accelerated" (or even "exaggerated"(!) class) where because of the addition in 1957 of the Senior College in Fort Wayne (we were the first class there!), thus adding a year to our pastoral studies. I accelerated a year by taking 3 summers in hot old St. Louis. Others decelerated so there would be a mostly steady stream of pastors pouring out into the LCMS in 1962. Lots of things have changed, eh??? But not Jesus, the same yesterday and today and forever!!!! *smile*

Thanks for your post, Wayne!

(BTW, it actually took me 9 years of studies before ordination AFTER graduating from Public High School Grade 12. 3 years at Concordia College, Milwaukee (in those days!), 2 years at Fort Wayne, plus 3 years at Concordia Seminary, St. Louis, with a year interning (or - "vicaring" at St. Paul's Lutheran, Kitchener, Ontario, Canada)! Praise God for being able to study His Word so intensely -- which still do! *smile*

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/486084#Comment_486084

NB.Mick

See my reply to Milford above. The Book of Concord by Tappert (c) 1959 will would not be complete without the two files: The Book of Concord, and The Augsburg Confession, Translated from the Latin. Milton and I have the same files. By the Way, the Book of Concord by Kolb and Wengert (Augsburg Fortress, 2000) is constructed the same way, with separate files for the German and Latin versions of the Augsburg Confession.

I know where my files came from [;)] I have the original disk from Concordia Publishing House in LLS format. The Files are all currently available on the Logos website.

Blessings

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/486193#Comment_486193

I think that folks who have the The Book of Concord by Tappert will find that they also have The Augsburg Confession,Translated from the Latin.

Definitely not.

Maybe those who bought it on CD-ROM back in "ye olden days" when dinosaurs roamed the earth. This file doesn't even exist on Logos' FTP server for Libronix! (Tappert's Book of Concord does)

Maybe there was an oversight by the transition from CD-ROM distribution to downloads, and CPH only need to provide the file to Logos for those who bought the Theology Collection #4. But actually, the product page never seems to mention it.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/486199#Comment_486199

I know where my files came from I have the original disk from Concordia Publishing House in LLS format. The Files are all currently available on the Logos website.

Hi Wayne,

Thanks for taking the time to post on this topic. As I mentioned it is not a big deal for me not having the Latin translation as I have access to the hard copy, but like you I would have thought the two resources should go together for the BC to be complete.

I only started using Logos in version 4, so I am not familiar with the files you mention. I have double-checked my library from within Logos 5 (both on the PC and laptop) and cannot find The Book of Concord, and The Augsburg Confession, Translated from the Latin.

Ken suggested maybe emailing Gabe (the Lutheran product manager). I'm happy to do this if someone can give me his email address.

God bless,

Michael

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/484980#Comment_484980

............ and God Bless You! *smile* You sound like a very diligent and dedicated young scholar.

Thanks for your kind words Milford, but only half right [;)] This is my second calling after years in engineering [:)]

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/486199#Comment_486199

I have the original disk from Concordia Publishing House in LLS format. The Files are all currently available on the Logos website.

I ordered the Concordia Electronic Theological Library: Collection 4 (4 vols.) on Sept 19, 2012 and received a download. The links to the corresponding Libronix files, which reside on the FTP server are:

so it seems ACMIRROR.lbxlls is missing. And I checked the server, it's not there. While I saw the translation from Latin mentioned in the BoC introduction and CA introduction, I didn't assume this meant a separate file, since deviations between the Latin and the German Vorlage are indicated by footnotes.

Maybe if you can supply a listing of the lbxlls-Files on the CD, someone from Logos can team up with CPH and clarify.

Blessings,

Mick

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/486201#Comment_486201

For sure the product page never seems to mention it. It was not mentioned by Concordia Publishing house in their original listings for the CD Edition.

I'm not using the libronix edition. I am using Logos 5 and both files are available.

I believe the editors at that time believed the astute student of such august documents would surely read the foot notes in the electronic edition! This is what they say:

From the first page of Augsburg Confession at the First Article in the resource named: The Book of Concord: (Logos 5 edition!)

Articles of Faith and Doctrine¹

I. [God]²

¹ We unanimously hold and teach, in accordance with the decree of the Council of Nicaea,³

² that there is one divine essence, which is called ^{^[1]}

¹ The print edition of The Book of Concord contains two versions of the Augsburg Confession. The version presented below is the English translation based on the German text of the Augsburg Confession. Mr. Tappert also presents an English translation based on the Latin text of the Augsburg Confession. The translation from the Latin is also available with the title of The Augsburg Confession, Translated from the Latin. Note that the English translation from the Latin will scroll synchronously with this volume, simply use the “link” button in the book window to link the texts together for synchronous scrolling.

² The titles of some articles, here enclosed in square brackets, were inserted in and after 1533.

³ The Nicene Creed

^{^[1]} The Book of Concord the Confessions of the Evangelical Lutheran Church., ed. Theodore G. Tappert (Philadelphia: Mühlenberg Press, 1959). 27.

From the First Page of The Augsburg Confession: Translated from the Latin

Chief Articles of Faith¹

I. [God]²

¹ Our churches teach with great ^{^[1]}

¹ The print edition of The Book of Concord contains two versions of the Augsburg Confession. The version presented below is the English translation based on the Latin text of the Augsburg Confession. Mr. Tappert also presents an English translation based on the German text of the Augsburg Confession. The translation based on the German is also available within the The Book of Concord. Note that the English translation from the German will scroll synchronously with this volume, simply use the “link” button in the book window to link the texts together for synchronous scrolling.

² The titles of some articles, here enclosed in square brackets, were inserted in and after 1533.

^{^[1]} Theodore G. Tappert, The Augsburg Confession: Translated from the Latin (Philadelphia: Fortress Press, 1959).

The same System of a separate file was used by Fortress Press in the translation Latin version of the Augsburg Confession.

I certain that our friend, Michael, in Indiana who asked the first question will find the answer when he talks to the good folks at Logos.

By the way, How are you reading the Tappert edition of the Book of Concord? Have you checked your library for "The Augsburg Confession: Translated from the Latin" ? Maybe you do have it too!

Have a blessed Lord's day!

Wayne

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/486203#Comment_486203

Ken suggested maybe emailing Gabe (the Lutheran product manager). I'm happy to do this if someone can give me his email address.

He gives his email at http://community.logos.com/forums/t/69709.aspx

SDG

Ken McGuire

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/486231#Comment_486231

Have you checked your library for "The Augsburg Confession: Translated from the Latin" ? Maybe you do have it too!

No, I don't.

I just sent a mail to Gabe, summarizing what we found so far:

Hello Gabe,

just a short introduction, I’m a Logos Forum MVP posting as NB.Mick. I’m writing to you in your capacity as Lutheran product manager.

In a recent thread http://community.logos.com/forums/t/69556.aspx we discovered that the Tappert edition of BoC (http://www.logos.com/product/21068/the-book-of-concord ) should consist of two Logos files, one (BKCONCRD.lbxlls – LLS:16.0.10 ) containing all the BoC files including the translation of Confessio Augustana from the German text, with a second file for the translation of CA from the Latin text (named ACMIRROR.lbxlls - LLS:16.0.11 ) . This setup was chosen to allow scrolling both texts in parallel and text in the resource explicitly refers to this way of using it, mimicking a two-column format in the printed edition. This way of distributing the CA has also been used for the Kolb-Wenger edition of BoC

Back when this resource was shipped on CD-ROM (e.g. as part of the Concordia Electronic Theological Library or of Luther’s Works), both files were included. It seems that when delivery was changed to electronic downloads, this file was overlooked and is not part of the download (and also not available on the FTP server, if I looked correctly). Could you please clarify this with Fortress or Concordia and make the file available?

Thanks a lot!

Mick

Maybe he'll chime in on this thread - if he answers me directly, I'll let you know.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/486335#Comment_486335

Well-Done, Mick! Nicely written! It's just not fair that I and some others should have this resource and you and some others not have it because you ordered it at a later date after and omissions error (mistake!) had occurred.....

Peace! *smile*

Don Awalt

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/486336#Comment_486336

Not to muddy the waters, but as I do happen to have both the resources ACMIRROR and BKCONCRD - They do NOT scroll in unison for me. I set both up using Link set A, I can scroll one, nothing on the other; I can click on a new section in the TOC of one, no movement in the other. I tried starting from both documents. Are you sure they scroll together? They do both have the "Book of Concord" index.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/486338#Comment_486338

Peace, Don! I think they were designed to "scroll" in the old Libronix platform and thus not likely to scroll with my Logos 5.0. Unfortunately, but not surprising! *smile* No big deal, eh???

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/486335#Comment_486335

I just sent a mail to Gabe, summarizing what we found so far:

You beat me to it Mick, thanks very much. A much better email than I could have written anyway [:D]

I look forward to hearing Gabe's response.

Thanks again,

Michael

Don Awalt

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/486339#Comment_486339

No big deal, eh???

No, no big deal at all - I just wanted to make sure I wasn't doing something incorrect. Thank you Milford!

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/486347#Comment_486347

No, actually ... Thank you, Don! It's very good to have ALL matters "on the table"! Blessings!

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/486339#Comment_486339

I think they were designed to "scroll" in the old Libronix platform and thus not likely to scroll with my Logos 5.0. Unfortunately, but not surprising!

Milford, it does surprise me - the scrolling is based in indexes, and what scrolled in Libronix should scroll here as well. Did you check if it works (maybe Don used a link set that had a bible included and thus the index didn't work)?

It seems I understand Wayne above that they do scroll for him under L5.

Also, one short update (also for Gabe if you should be looking), Logos has the file on their servers someplace - at least the preview-version - and seemingly hasn't shipped the licence with the Theology Collection:

Wayne or anybody, can you clarify the scrolling/non scolling mystery?

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/486354#Comment_486354

Peace, Mick! My wife and I are heading out in a few seconds for Divine Service and then a few other things....l

Thanks for your post! I'll examine this very carefully later today! *smile*

Don Awalt

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/486358#Comment_486358

To answer one question I did just have the two resources up and LInked through A. I thought it should work since they had a common index, the Concord Index. But they do not scroll together on my computer! If someone else sees differently, please post!

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/486354#Comment_486354

Milford, it does surprise me - the scrolling is based in indexes, and what scrolled in Libronix should scroll here as well. Did you check if it works (maybe Don used a link set that had a bible included and thus the index didn't work)?

I seem to remember it NOT working in my libronix setup, years back...

I own both the Tappert and K-W in Logos (and in print too, but that isn't really relevant). I got both in CD's, and so have a separate translation of the Latin in both of them.

For the Tappart - in the main text, including the translation of the German AC, it seems to be tagged fairly well for the BookOfConcord datatype. There are a few paragraphs that seemed to be skipped in the Apology, but they actually don't seem to exist in the datatype for some reason (links TO that datatype are rejected in the Personal Book compiler)..

However, for the translation from the Latin in Tappert, the first (and only?) tag in the Book of Concord datatype seems to be AC: II. In the translation from the German, that tag takes us to the beginning of the Abuse articles - which makes sense. So it appears to have only one tag for the datatype, and the one tag it seems to have is in the wrong place.

On the other hand, for the Kolb-Wengert, AC: I takes you to the PREFACE in the main work (translation of the German AC) but to the beginning of the Doctrinal articles of the translation of the Latin. The good news is that this Latin tagging matches up with the tagging of the German from Tappert, so I can actually scroll them together if I want to. But the tagging throughout the German based text in the K-W is lacking. In addition, the paragraphs are not numbered ANYWHERE in K-W in the main text, and the tagging is near non-existent in the Apology...

I hope that this can be rectified at some point...

SDG

Ken McGuire

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/486078#Comment_486078

Good Morning Michael,

The print version of Tappert's Book of Concord' Augsburg confess on has the text of the English translation of the German text on the top of the page, separated by a solid line from the English translation of the Augsburg on the lower half part of the page. In the electronic edition, you open both resources, The book of Concord, and the Augsburg Confession and link them. They then scroll together.

Here is the info for the Augsburg from my library:

LLS:16.0.11
2002-08-08T19:04:44Z
acmirror.lbxlls

Blessings to you as you continue your studies.

Wayne

Hi Wayne! I cannot get my two resources to scroll together ... Would you please try again and report what you see .... and give some instruction please! *smile*

What does happen if I link both resources to a letter (here "B") is that the Latin Resource will "zap" back to the beginning of the Augsburg Confession ... so I get that very limited action, but no real scrolling ...

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/486406#Comment_486406

Of course, by picking the right versions, I can get this to scroll together

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/486410#Comment_486410

Of course, by picking the right versions, I can get this to scroll together

?? Huh ?? I did get my second coffee this morning, but your remark leaves me scratching my head. Which "versions" do you mean? Do you pick another BoC in the set, so they utilize an alternative index, such as Triglotta? Please explain.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/486471#Comment_486471

Yeah - I can scroll Kolb Latin based with Tappert German based....