Design a new package for new pastor on limited budget
Could you (Logos user) design a better package?
The challenge
Design a new package for new pastor on limited budget of $1000 and this will have to last for next 5 years!
You can assume the new pastor has been to bible college. The pastor never heard of Logos until he left bible college.
Two options
A) with no Greek OR
1 year Greek
Rules. You must base your package on current Logos prices, however you are allowed to take advantage of current discounts.
This exercise might be helpful for those on a limited budget and who don't like the look of the current base packages on offer.
P A
Comments
- Technical Commentaries
- Exegetical Summaries
- Keil & Delitzsch
- NICOT/NICNT
- Intermediate Commentaries
- Bible Speaks Today
- Black's NT Commentary
- Calvin's Commentaries
- New American Commentary
- Tyndale Commentaries
- UBS Handbooks
- Expository Commentaries
- Boice's Expositional Commentaries
- Holman NT Commentary
- Matthew Henry
- Welwyn Commentaries
- Bible Dictionaries
- Anchor Yale Bible Dictionary
- Baker Encylopedia of the Bible
- Dictionary of Biblical Imagery
- IVP 'Black' Dictionaries: Jesus and the Gospels, Paul and His Letters, Later NT and its Developments, and New Testament Background
- Lexham Bible Dictionary
- New Bible Dictionary
- New Dictionary of Biblical Theology
- New Dictionary of Theology
- Lexicons
- BDAG
- Brown-Driver-Briggs
- Liddell & Scott
- TDNT
- Theological Lexicon of the NT
- Theological Lexicon of the OT
- Interlinears
- Greek NT
- Hebrew OT
- Septuagint
- Apostolic Fathers
- Systematic Theologies
- Berkhof
- Shedd
- Other
- Apocrypha and Pseudepigrapha in English
- Concise OED
- Early Church Fathers
- Works of Francis Shaeffer
I, am not a pastor, so I might be disqualified from giving input, but.... I still think that it would be neat if Logos offered some sort of a "Build it Yourself" package. For instance, they could give you a list of 20 commentary sets and you get to pick X amount of them and so forth with all of the other types of resources such as Bibles, word studies etc.
Doing it like this would allow a pastor to tailor the package that they would use optimally. They know their education level and such much better than a standard pre-built package.
EDIT: The more that you are willing to spend, the more resources that you will be entitled to recieve from the given lists.
I still think that it would be neat if Logos offered some sort of a "Build it Yourself" package.
I doubt that anyone who has purchased a Base Package is 100% happy with the Resource selections that Logos made. I know I have a bunch that I would be just as happy to throw back (MyTag:UGH). As a result, a $1000 Silver Package, even though the price is relatively low, might actually be very costly once one sorts the wheat from the chaff. Thus, a B-I-Y package makes a lot of sense.
I'd guess (and it is only a guess) that the appearance of "dynamic pricing" is an indication that they are quietly trying to do exactly what you suggest. But adding all 35,000 resources into one giant pricing algorithm sounds rather daunting and possibly prohibitive. However, smaller B-I-Y packages that break down along, say, Pentecostal/SDA/Reformed/Weslyan/Evangelical/Catholic/Greek/Hebrew/Text Crit/Higher Crit/Exegetical/etc. lines would be far more manageable.
Speculation only.
Instead of Artificial Intelligence, I prefer to continue to rely on Divine Intelligence instructing my Natural Dullness (Ps 32:8, John 16:13a)
All of the current packages suffer from commentary starvation. To me, the commentaries a pastor would most value would cost the $1,000 price (or close to it) you are looking for if not more.
I think your price point is simply too low for a real pastor's "library." Three times that gets you a lot closer. Sorry about that, and it wasn't your question. Most seminary/Bible college educations cost way more than $1,000. A car does. Why think that a pastor can feed and minister to his congregation with a $1,000 Bible study expenditure? I know that sounds a bit harsh, but it is the reality. Better to give your pastor money to spend on books as he wishes than put together a package he might not use because he'd feel limited.
Now if he just needs a little search help in the Bible and a few inexpensive public domain commentaries, you can do that for way less than $1,000 in Logos and most other Bible software programs.
Pastor, North Park Baptist Church
Bridgeport, CT USA
... commentary starvation.
This would go a very long way towards feeding the poor with a highly nutritious diet!
Instead of Artificial Intelligence, I prefer to continue to rely on Divine Intelligence instructing my Natural Dullness (Ps 32:8, John 16:13a)
... commentary starvation.
This would go a very long way towards feeding the poor with a highly nutritious diet!
For a few practical sermons it could work, but I don't know about going a very long way because not everybody necessarily agrees with Boice's theology and what could be nutritious diet for you may not be for others. Personally I own a few of his volumes and like the Bible says "Prove all things, hold fast that which is good." I try to get whatever good moral principles I can from his writings, but I find myself disagreeing with him a lot due to his theology.
Plus, that's not a base package. My recommendations are: 1) Try to get your church to help you buy your "tools" for ministry (Logos if you wish - I highly recommend it) or 2) Get a free software that contains several commentaries and save yourself $1000 bucks for some special add-on to your free software that some times some of the resources required a purchase to obtain them.
Blessings!
DAL
... commentary starvation.
This would go a very long way towards feeding the poor with a highly nutritious diet!
Yes, but the poor would soon be hungry again, and the $1,000 would be gone. Mark is talking about feeding peoples' souls for a lifetime. In addition, teaching the Word of God correctly should result in many more people feeding the poor.
You might as well say the carpenter should sell his hammer, saw, and other tools to feed the poor. Not a very wise way to go about it, and it shows a real lack of understanding about the tools of a carpenter's or pastor's work.
You can be a carpenter without good tools, but you can be a better pastor with good tools. Same is true for a pastor. Good tools cost some money.
I agree with Mark on this. What he wrote is quite true.
"In all cases, the Church is to be judged by the Scripture, not the Scripture by the Church," John Wesley
I think your price point is simply too low for a real pastor's "library." Three times that gets you a lot closer. Sorry about that, and it wasn't your question. Most seminary/Bible college educations cost way more than $1,000. A car does. Why think that a pastor can feed and minister to his congregation with a $1,000 Bible study expenditure? I know that sounds a bit harsh, but it is the reality. Better to give your pastor money to spend on books as he wishes than put together a package he might not use because he'd feel limited.
I agree with this. A plumber who is starting out will have to find about $12,000 to buy all the tools he would need. Is the work of ministry less important? Is a minister less in need of tools to do his job?
Personally, I would recommend a minister buying his first package should get what I've listed below. I've deliberately chosen these as being excellent packages that offer a heavy discount when bought with a base package (several are half-price, one is an 80% discount). Assuming a 15% discount for Gold (fairly easy to get), that comes to just over $3,682. A payment plan would make this cost around $157/month for two years, or $36 a week. I think that's great value for all these excellent tools. What's particularly appealing about this collection is that Gold is free! That is, if you remove Gold from your shopping cart, then the price goes up by $142. That's how significant some of these discounts are.
Of course, I'm not saying that you shouldn't go into the ministry unless you spend that sort of money. But I am saying that in many other professions there are significant start-up costs, and I'm not sure I see why the ministry should be any different.
PS - You can save a little more on Gold by joining SBL for $109. That nets you a 25% discount and a total price for Gold+membership of $1,271 (a saving of $40). You might save even more by NOT joining SBL, but discussing that option with a sales rep!
PPS - At a glance, the person buying this package would get all the Logos tools, and hundreds of resources, the most important of which are :
This is my personal Faithlife account. On 1 March 2022, I started working for Faithlife, and have a new 'official' user account. Posts on this account shouldn't be taken as official Faithlife views!
Wow, Mark. That's actually a pretty useful package you put together there. lt is probably more than someone starting out might consider, but I must say that it's a pretty good combination of what a serious Bible student is actually likely to use.
lt is probably more than someone starting out might consider
I agree with that, but the attraction of the initial discounts, coupled with the possibility of a 2 year payment plan, coupled with the fact that when you begin your first 'job' after college is a great time to set a budget, means I still think it's appropriate for someone starting out. (Although that obviously depends on personal circumstances, of course.) The payment plan will cost you $120 over the period, but you'll save far more than that through the discounts available when you buy the base package.
This is my personal Faithlife account. On 1 March 2022, I started working for Faithlife, and have a new 'official' user account. Posts on this account shouldn't be taken as official Faithlife views!
I also failed to get in your $1000 budget.
No Greek base -
Verbum Foundations - 490 (Gets you ECF as well as a variety of Bible translations and useful addins cheaper than anything else)
Luther's Works - 259
Anchor Bible Dictionary - 270
IVP Reference - 190 (but on sale for 100 now)
Bible Speaks Today - 100 (NT only, but good value)
Tyndale Commentaries - 225 (Value)
Totaling $1534 (minus sales)
Greek Based
Bronze - 630
Luther - 259
ABD - 270
IVP Ref - 190
WBC - 700 (All sets have their pros and cons, but this is the best value, IMHO)
Totaling 2049 (again, minus sales)
The Gospel is not ... a "new law," on the contrary, ... a "new life." - William Julius Mann
L8 Anglican, Lutheran and Orthodox Silver, Reformed Starter, Academic Essentials
L7 Lutheran Gold, Anglican Bronze
Personally, I would recommend a minister buying his first package should get what I've listed below.
I'm not a pastor or in the market for that level of resources, but I'm certain Mark's advice here will be very valuable to those who are. It would be a good post to favorite for when advice to others is needed.
macOS (Logos Pro - Beta) | Android 13 (Logos Stable)
The challenge
Design a new package for new pastor on limited budget of $1000 and this will have to last for next 5 years!
A) with no Greek
Rules. You must base your package on current Logos prices, however you are allowed to take advantage of current discounts.
To bad everyone [so far] is on the "Expensive" side of Logos.
A new pastor at a Catholic Church could spend a lot less - and it would be useful for his entire career. [[The advantage of a unified church]]
Verbum Basic $269.95
Plus
Catechism of the Catholic Church Collection (9 vols.) $49.95
Even if he upgraded to:
Verbum Foundations $489.95 or
Verbum Scripture Study $889.95
He is still under the grand limit
If the pastor had been to Bible college, he would most likely have a basic commentary set even if it is print. He could use that to start and leverage it to pay for more later in Logos. While Silver is weak on commentaries, commentaries are still secondary to doing your own mining.
The mind of man is the mill of God, not to grind chaff, but wheat. Thomas Manton | Study hard, for the well is deep, and our brains are shallow. Richard Baxter
The challenge
Design a new package for new pastor on limited budget of $1000 and this will have to last for next 5 years!
A) with no Greek
Rules. You must base your package on current Logos prices, however you are allowed to take advantage of current discounts.
To bad everyone [so far] is on the "Expensive" side of Logos.
A new pastor at a Catholic Church could spend a lot less - and it would be useful for his entire career. [[The advantage of a unified church]]
Verbum Basic $269.95
Plus
Catechism of the Catholic Church Collection (9 vols.) $49.95Even if he upgraded to:
Verbum Foundations $489.95 or
Verbum Scripture Study $889.95He is still under the grand limit
David,
I believe that the resources in the Catechism Collection are all part of the Verbum Basic. ... I think?
I might be inclined to start with Verbum Foundations as it add Aquinas' Summa and Sunday Homilies and John Henry Newman's corpus along with additional datasets and other goodies. Here is an interesting scenario:
Verbum Foundations: $490
Liturgical Press Reference Collection: $110
Joseph Ratzinger/Pope Benedict XVI Collection (14 vols.): $169
Apostolic Constitutions and Exhortations of John Paul II and Benedict XVI (51 vols.): $70
Ignatius Catholic Study Bible: New Testament, Genesis, Exodus, and the RSV2CE: $45
Man and Woman He Created Them: A Theology of the Body: $26
The Compendium of the Social Doctrine of the Church: $18
Missals of the Roman Catholic Church (3 vols.): $70
I think that gets you to $998 total. ...and a very nice start.
Could you (Logos user) design a better package?
The challenge
Design a new package for new pastor on limited budget of $1000 and this will have to last for next 5 years!
You can assume the new pastor has been to bible college. The pastor never heard of Logos until he left bible
What kind of pastor, what kind of ministry, what kind of church background?
Logos is basically designed for Bible-centered ministries. A career chaplain would need a different set of resources than an expository preacher. A youth pastor would need a different set than a minister of Christian education. Also, is this a Catholic church, a Pentecostal church, Reformed, Main-line, Evangelical, Fundamentalist? To whom does he/she minister: blue collar, professionals, inner city, suburbs, rural, is this a college town, and how well do these folks know their Bibles?
Then what is the his/her basic ministry style? Administrator, team-leader, teacher, pastoral care, evangelist, etc.
There are way to many unknowns here to create a meaningful package for every new pastor, possibly even most of them.
This is why Logos' shotgun approach in the base packages is so helpful. Even if you do not include the "chaff" (as it was characterized earlier), I have found that base packages are almost always the most economical way to build a meaningful library. I've been using Logos since version 1.6, and this has been true since I first started comparing what I could do apart from base packages, and what a base package gives me. I only include works I want as I calculate the savings. I always find base packages to be tremendous bargains (YMMV). I must also say that more than once, I was surprised to find that some of the 'chaff' have proved to be quite helpful later on.
If I want to be a handy-man around the house, I'll need some tools. I could go and buy a screwdriver, an adjustable wrench, and piece-meal a set for myself, or I can go looking for a tool set. The advantage of the tool set is that it is more likely to have tools that I don't anticipate needing, but I will need sooner or later. I might not know I need a 9/16" (roughly 14mm) socket to tighten that nut in a place that an adjustable wrench simply won't fit. But if I have the tool kit with that socket, I can find what I need. And the tool kit is almost always less expensive than buying what I need one piece at a time.
I always recommend a base package as the best and most economical way to begin with Logos, and the most economical way to grow one's library. Which base package depends on the person, of course, and their study needs. What I would do is look at the base packages with them, and decide what that person really wants in terms of commentaries, original language texts/lexicons/etc., Bibles and other resources. Look at their budget and between the two (money and needs/wants), find their "sweet spot." For most expository preachers (like me), it will probably be the current "Silver" or "Gold" package. For the more academically minded and financially 'comfortable,' Platinum, Diamond and Portfolio might be their best entry-point.
Help links: WIKI; Logos 6 FAQ. (Phil. 2:14, NIV)
The answer to all the questions is easy.
We assume that the pastor did some theology studies on a university which gives you 50 percent on base packages (like mine) and wise as he is he puts together his package under this circumstances :P, no matter what you add, the price tends to be right!
The answer to all the questions is easy.
We assume that the pastor did some theology studies on a university which gives you 50 percent on base packages (like mine) and wise as he is he puts together his package under this circumstances :P, no matter what you add, the price tends to be right!
According to the SBC 40% of their pastors have no college. A program like Logos is their college and seminary.
According to the SBC 40% of their pastors have no college. A program like Logos is their college and seminary.
Source? That seems rather unbelievable to me. There are gobs of Southern Baptist bible colleges around. Of the eight largest seminaries in America, five of them are Southern Baptist. 40% haven't had any college? Really?
According to the SBC 40% of their pastors have no college. A program like Logos is their college and seminary.
I'm beyond the age of someone going to seminary (some Bible school after college) and my decision to go with Logos was based on the value it provides me by comparison to seminary. Even if I went to seminary, I'd still need Logos.
The mind of man is the mill of God, not to grind chaff, but wheat. Thomas Manton | Study hard, for the well is deep, and our brains are shallow. Richard Baxter
According to the SBC 40% of their pastors have no college. A program like Logos is their college and seminary.
According to the thesis that I found online the actual number is closer to 10%. We have visited one such SBC church and the pastor is a carpenter by day and pastor by weekend. I know there is a significant number of small rural churches that don't have a pastor with formal training.
Nine of 10 Southern Baptist congregations have the services of an ongoing pastor,
either regular or interim. The typical pastor is 48 years old. The majority of Southern
Baptist pastors have college degrees and seminary degrees. Only 1 in 10 Southern
Baptist pa'Stors has no formal ministerial education. The typical tenure for pastors is 4
years.28
28Phillip B. Jones, "Executive Summary of Southern Baptist Congregations Today, September
2004 [Research Report online]; available from http://www.namb.net/atfi.cf{COA250E8-8866-4236-9AOCC646DE
1534463} Southern _ Baptist_Congregations Today-pdf. Internet; accessed 5 August 2005.
THE ROLE OF THE PASTOR IN SOUTHERN BAPTIST CHURCHES:
A BIBLICAL VIEW VERSES A PREVAILING VIEW
Submitted to Liberty Baptist Theological Seminary
I've been looking through this thread the past couple days and I believe the original intent of the OP may have been misunderstood by many or maybe I have misunderstood it. However it reads to me that the OP was challenging Logos users to design what may be considered a "dream package" for a new pastor but with the guidelines that it needs to stay in line with current Logos pricing for current base packages.
So for example take the Silver and keep the ones you think are good, cut loose all the "fluff" resources and replace them with resources more valuable to a new pastor. Yes there would be less resources overall at the same price point but ultimately it could be a better package.
Seems like a fun challenge.
Logos 10 - OpenSuse Tumbleweed, Windows 11, Android 16 & Android 14
I didn't misunderstand at all.
The question is dependent upon what the pastor will preach. If it's heavy 'exegetical', then the price tag is going to go up. So Mark's thoughts. If the preaching is going to be heavily dependent on litergy, etc, then the price will drop considerably. And if (like me), the Holy Spirit said what He said, then the Bible is sufficient. No budget is necessary.
It's a cute question but one that presumes ones theology.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
So for example take the Silver and keep the ones you think are good, cut loose all the "fluff" resources and replace them with resources more valuable to a new pastor. Yes there would be less resources overall at the same price point but ultimately it could be a better package.
But the very purpose of the packages is to help both the customer and the company. The customer is helped by getting a large number of books cheaper than they could individually purchased. The company is helped by selling the fluff. Without the fluff there is little incentive for the company to have such packages. You can't make a package of all high quality stuff and the company make a profit.<\P>
Besides, one man's fluff is another man's treasure.<\P>
"In all cases, the Church is to be judged by the Scripture, not the Scripture by the Church," John Wesley
P A, Silver package clocks in at 999.95. I think this is a good start, plus you have a year to pay it off.
Mission: To serve God as He desires.
Agreed. Silver is what I would recommend. If the pastor wants a starter package for under $200, then I'd recommend the IVP collection. Best bang for buck, and its on sale for little over $100 often.
http://www.logos.com/product/8588/the-essential-ivp-reference-collection-version-3