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The two of them are essential. The NEB is a groundbreaking translation that offers bold translations choices to offer a good alternative translation. The REB is slightly more conservative but has such a wonderfully poetic style that has really not been seen since the KJV.

-Dan

Ok, Dan. Any examples of bold-ish phrasing? My current bold translation is YLT, who oft-times escapes any attempts to nail down his bold source(s).

I'm especially iffy on the NEB since it's missing one of its volumes.

Thanks, P A and Dan

That explains why there's 4 volumes in the image, but 3 below.

And indeed the NEB looks to be the bad-boy of translations (clearly YLT not even in the running). Mat 5.3 completely obviates my own hobby-horse interpretation but the differences certainly catch the eye.

Thanks for both replies; excellent. I'll probably get the NEB.

“Under three things the earth shakes, four things it cannot bear: a slave becoming king, a fool gorging himself, a hateful woman getting wed, and a slave supplanting her mistress. Four things there are which are smallest on earth yet wise beyond the wisest: ants, a folk with no strength, yet they prepare their store of food in the summer; rock-badgers, a feeble folk, yet they make their home among the rocks; locusts, which have no king, yet they all sally forth in formation; the lizard, which can be grasped in the hand, yet is found in the palaces of kings.” (Proverbs 30:21–28 REB)

I always found this quite a quaint translation from the REB.

-dan

Okay, okay, okay! You guys sold me. I put in my order. Thanks for translation helps.

CL

The release date for the Logos REB and NEB seems to keep moving forward. For a while it was in June, then it went to July. It was yesterday, but now it's moved to next Monday.

I've been waiting for an electronic version of these for ages and now the wait goes on!

The NEB is especially useful; although it is dated. It was the first major modern English translation which was not particularly influenced by the KJV/RSV tradition, or in bondage to the expectations of the largely evangelical driven market. The scholars who translated it were allowed to follow their own understanding and it is always worth consulting, if only to find out the reasons why they opted for a different meaning.

The language of the REB is more modern and some of the more speculative translations were dropped.

The REB is very trustworthy. Look up for example G. B. Caird on Wikipedia and some of the other translators are also there.

I've collected a bit of comparison between different English Bible versions in: OT exegetical versions compared to
1995 Contemporary English Version.

If You want to compare different English Bible versions, the UBS Handbook is good for that, it includes versions such as REB, JB and 1976 Good News Translation (with 4 Edition NT and 1st Edition OT, there's since been two new Editions, in 1992 and in 2004):

Tes said:

Please help me to evaluate it, how do I know whether the translation is trustworthy?

The more modern language of the REB is an important thing. The NEB was already archaic when it was released because much influence from over the pond had entered British after WWII.

Thank you Unix and David for the clarification.

I like this one (Gen 5.29).

NEB: 'This boy will bring us relief from our work, and from the hard labour that has come upon us because of the Lord's curse upon the ground.' (Noah's a good boy, trying to offset the impact of what the Lord did)

Brenton: ' This one will cause us to cease from our works, and from the toils of our hands, and from the earth, which the Lord God has cursed.' (Noah will stop Lamech from working with future echos of Pauline theology.)

NRSV: 'Out of the ground that the LORD has cursed this one shall bring us relief from our work and from the toil of our hands.' (Noah climbs out of the ground, surprising Lamech.)

ISV: 'May this one comfort us from our work, from pain that is caused by our manual labor, and from the ground that the LORD has cursed.' (Noah uses his combination psy/med degree from Ararat U to calm down Lamech and relax those tired muscles).

NJB: 'Here is one who will give us, in the midst of our toil and the labouring of our hands, a consolation out of the very soil that Yahweh cursed.’ (Noah interupts Lamech's work schedule for a consolation he discovered in the dirt.)

I think these books are going to be included in Logos 6 base package in the future. I am woundering ,is there something different in these translations which makes so excited? If ,then I have missed something ,please tell me to join you.

Literal vs 'dynamic equivalent' (whatever that is) is an interesting problem. While I was waiting for the NEB to ship yesterday, I was comparing a verse from Genesis (examples above). I was having fun, using a literal interpretation of the non-literal translation.

Now, I'd suspect that no matter the translaton, most forum participants can easily manage the meaning, absent some serious hebrew / greek theory (so that for most forum users, the issue is simply style preference; not likely to be misled).

But as much as I love literal translations, they 'can' be pretty obnoxious, as they try to maintain word order and word-equivalence.  In the past, I've been a bit suspicious of the expansions (dynamic equiv), since they almost always demand some type of theological assumption(s).  The targums are the best examples.

But the NEB might be somewhat of an odd duck ... translators free to not 'tack' theologically.  LEB (Lexham English Bible), I've noticed, periodically runs into 50/50 situations and in a note is open enough to admitting a theological tack. Ditto on NET. But most kind of ignore it.  I like LEB's honesty.

Ok ... since Logos had to beef up their servers for the unbelievable demand for NEB (and REB of course), we'll do some more exploration of NEB:

..

You'll want to turn to your present Bible, to the section describing King Josiah managing the priests, Temple and 'Ark of the Lord':

- Who was the earliest king to command the Levites?

- Where was the Ark after Solomon died?  And did the priests ever stop as they carried it around?? For 200 years?

- Where are the Levitical tribal clans discussed?

- Lastly, where in the world is this quote from (NEB of course)?

Bonus question: Do you have a single Bible that uses the phrase 'in their cups' to describe unfortunate decision making while inebriated?  

Great work, Beloved! To be honest, I hope REB shows up today just for P A's peace of mind. He's really pushed it.

I didn't know most answers so I'm happy to learn, plus being impressed with your Bible knowledge!

The actual quote is from the apocrypha Esdras 1. It's very interesting since it comes very close to 2CH and also 2KI, but with some variation. 

Your Isa 28.7 was good! 

Denise said:

David's example at Col 4.6 is an excellent example of where something seems to have gotten lost in the translation.

In the middle is a syntactic conversion 'so that' which in english normally means that the earlier clause (gracious, salty-ish/not-insipid) contributes to and is even necessary for 'you may know how'.  I'd presume the JB/Barclay might make the conversion, but it's strickly a guess.

Not meaning to fine-tune, but simply illustrate, that as the Colossians writer was carefully trying not to make a smudge on his papyri (and start all over), he could not possibly have imagined all the languages that would have trouble at this point.  I know in everyday conversation with my Japanese spouse, that these clausal transitions almost never transfer correctly (in both directions).  Navajo/English is even worse, so that the clausal dependencies are not likely to be successful.

Just moving this thread back to the top!  Tomorrow the NEB'll be going 'out for a spin'.

                  As I sit in my study -- still hoping for the NEB and the REB still to download this evening in Eastern Canada -- although I'm less hopeful every minute they do not show up  --      I thought I'd commend you for some of your thoughtful posts on this thread .....

        while I'm waiting I thought I'd share two quotes from a couple of Logos Resources on Colossians 4:6 ---    so much there to think about --

If these two quotes are too long for anyone, please use your PageDown on the keyboard, eh???

The second quote takes cognizance of the NEB AND the REB

Quote # 1 -

The Christian and the World

Colossians 4:5, 6

Behave yourselves wisely to those who are outside the Church.

Buy up every possible opportunity.

Let your speech always be with gracious charm, seasoned with the salt of wit, so that you will know the right answer to give in every case.

Here are three brief instructions for the life of the Christian in the world.

(i) The Christian must behave himself with wisdom and with tact towards those who are outside the Church. He must of necessity be a missionary; but he must know when and when not to speak to others about his religion and theirs. He must never give the impression of superiority and censorious criticism. Few people have ever been argued into Christianity. The Christian, therefore, must remember that it is not so much by his words as by his life that he will attract people to, or repel them from, Christianity. On the Christian there is laid the great responsibility of showing men Christ in his daily life.

(ii) The Christian must be a man on the outlook for opportunity. He must buy up every opportunity possible to work for Christ and to serve men. Daily life and work are continually offering men opportunities to witness for Christ and to influence people for him—but there are so many who avoid the opportunities instead of embracing them. The Church is constantly offering its members the opportunity to teach, to sing, to visit, to work for the good of the Christian congregation—and there are so many who deliberately refuse these opportunities instead of accepting them. The Christian should always be on the outlook for the opportunity to serve Christ and his fellow-men.

(iii) The Christian must have charm and wit in his speech so that he may know how to give the right answer in every case. Here is an interesting injunction. It is all too true that Christianity in the minds of many is connected with a kind of sanctimonious dullness and an outlook in which laughter is almost a heresy. As C. F. D. Moule says, this is “a warning not to confuse loyal godliness with graceless insipidity.” The Christian must commend his message with the charm and the wit which were in Jesus himself. There is too much of the Christianity which stodgily depresses a man and too little of the Christianity which scintillates with life.^[1]

Thanks, Dan!                  Guess I can go to bed now ...                    *smile*

              Tomorrow is going to be an expensive day, eh???

looks like tomorrow (7/24). Sigh....[:(]

Beloved said:

I know nothing about Esdras, only that Unix makes his salt on it, or Esdras 2.

These are books that are partly anyway, in the orthodox Bible. 1 Esdras is 3 Ezra (1+2 Ezra being Ezra and Nehemiah), 2 Esdras is a compilation or what is known as 4 Ezra, 5 Ezra, 6 Ezra (5 and 6 being wholly Christian additions to the start and the end of 4 Ezra). Logos sells a commentary in the Hermeneia series on fourth Ezra. The Prayer of Manasseh, 1 + 2 Esdras, have never been considered canonical in the catholic church but the older editions of Douay-Rheims Bible had them in an appendix labeled apocrypha, which more or less good expanded in Protestant times to include all books not in the final Hebrew canon.

-dan

PS: You find the Prayer of Manasseh in the odes of the Septuagint.