It's here - Fathers of the Church

That a treasure trove!  Thanks!  

MJ. Smith said:

a mere 127 volumes

[My bank account says:] Ouch!

And Gabe who has promised that the Ancient Christian Writers are on the way as well... And the rest of the Popular Patristics...

I think most of us will need to start cutting everything non-essential out of our budgets.[8-|]

MJ. Smith said:

http://www.logos.com/product/28902/patrologiae-cursus-completus-series-latina 221 volumes

http://www.logos.com/product/28903/patrologiae-cursus-completus-series-graeca 167 volumes

http://www.logos.com/product/28982/patrologia-syriaca 17 volumes

are the full thing.

Almost. Not everything we have today was available in Migne's days.

Fr Devin Roza said:

this edition includes a lot of the commentaries the Church Fathers wrote on books of the Bible. Unfortunately, those were generally omitted in the Schaff edition

How ironic: the Protestant leaves out the Bible commentaries, and the Catholics include them. Isn't it supposed to be the other way around?[6]

fgh said:

I think most of us will need to start cutting everything non-essential out of our budgets.

Ramen noodles, mac & cheese, hot dogs, gruel, nail soup, Pablum.........electricity?

fgh said:

David Bailey said:

I would like it better if Logos had broken up the offering into smaller pieces.

They have:

• Fathers of the Church: Fathers of the Ante-Nicene Era (23 vols.)
• Fathers of the Church: Greek Fathers of the Nicene Era (35 vols.)
• Fathers of the Church: Latin Fathers of the Nicene Era (25 vols.)
• Fathers of the Church: St. Augustine (30 vols.)
• Fathers of the Church: Fathers of the Post-Nicene Era (14 vols.)

Thanks for finding these fgh. [:)]

Super Tramp said:

The price seems steep until you consider the page count (less than $.04 per page.)

I agree the best price per page (and per volume) is the entire set. The smaller offerings are higher in price.

fgh, those works/collections of which you speak seem to be the Loeb editions.  These Loeb editions are small handbooks that are primarily for classicists with the original language on one side and a fairly literal english on the other - as in translations that are great for checking your work in translating/reading the original, but not the smoothest english either.  The Loeb series offers a fine collection of greco-roman works, and includes some influential church fathers, even if that is not their focus.

The Fathers of the Church series spoken of in this thread is probably the most complete translation of the Fathers into English.  The English is rather clear to read...  If I may give an example from some admittedly dense hammering out of trinitarian language, Basil Ep. 8... (yeah - I have made a personal book of this)

To those who insolently charge us with the doctrine of three gods, let this be said: that we confess one God, not in number, but in nature. Now, everything which is said to be one in number is not one in reality and simple in nature. But, God is universally confessed to be simple and uncompounded. Therefore, God is not one in number. What I mean is this. We say that the universe is one in number, but not one in nature, nor is it something simple. For we divide it into the elements out of which it was formed, into fire, water, air, and earth. Again, man is called one in number. For we frequently say man. But he is not something simple, since he is formed of body and soul. We likewise say the angel is one in number, but not one in nature or simple, for we consider the person of the angel as composed of substance with sanctity. Therefore, if everything which is one in number is not one in nature, and what is one in nature and simple is not one in number, and we say that God is one in nature, how do they bring into our idea, number, which we banish entirely from that blessed and spiritual nature? For, number pertains to quantity, and quantity is added as an attribute of corporeal nature. Doubtless, then, number is an attribute of corporeal nature. Further, we have believed that our Lord is the Creator of bodies. Therefore, also, all number indicates those things which are assigned to have a material and circumscribed nature, but ‘aloneness’ and ‘oneness’ are indicative of the simple and uncircumscribed substance. Accordingly, he who confesses the Son of God or the Holy Spirit as number or creature unconsciously introduces a material and circumscribed nature. And by a circumscribed nature I mean one not only encompassed by space, but also included in the foreknowledge of Him who is to lead it from non-existence into existence, and consequently one capable of comprehension by the understanding. Now, everything holy which has its nature circumscribed and its holiness acquired is not unsusceptible to evil. But the Son and the Holy Spirit are the fountains of holiness from which every rational creature in proportion to its virtue is made holy.

Yet we, according to the true doctrine, do not say that the Son is either like or unlike the Father. Each of these expressions is equally impossible, since ‘likeness’ and ‘unlikeness’ are used in speaking of qualities, and the Divinity is not restricted by quality. However, admitting the identity of nature, we also accept the identity of substance, and we reject compositeness, since He who in substance is God and Father has begotten Him who in substance is God and Son. From this fact identity in substance is proved. For, He who in substance is God is consubstantial with Him who is God in substance.


Basil Letters vol 1. (n.d.). (pp. 23–24).

It includes some helpful footnotes, but no where near the extensive annotation of Early Church Writers series Gabe has promised.  In general, the translations seem readable.  Some may quibble about using the latinate term "consubstantial" for a Greek father - it seems to be translating for an audience that knows and understand the theological vocabulary of the Western church...

SDG

Ken McGuire

MJ. Smith said:

Fathers of the Church has some overlap with Schaff but is a much more readable translation, different editing and some different materials.

Speaking personally ... thanks everyone!  I truly appreciate the comments.  Very helpful.  ST's analysis of the value proposition is a big help.  I think MJ. has provided a very useful summary.  I'm in ... and will save up for the eventual publication. 

[:)]

Fr. Devin, Thank you for your ministry.  Please know that we pray for you and your service to our Lord and Savior, Christ Jesus.

[:)]

fgh said:

I wonder if anyone has made a chart of what writings are available in which series.

fgh, I started to, but I ran into some difficulty actually comparing the contents of each author in each series. Many times the titles, and even author names, are different for whatever reason, and not having the volumes on hand at home made it difficult to go back and forth with them all to make sure everything is accurate.

Maybe one of these days I'll get the motivation to complete it, as I have access to both sets in the same library, but probably not for awhile!

Hopefully this set will be split up into indicidual volumes! I'm not able to read everything in this huge set, but there are many I would purchase individually!

Greg Masone said:

Randy Lane said:

Sadly the 30 volumes from Augustine excludes the vast expositions on Psalms.

Here's to hoping New City Press's Works of Augustine make it into Logos soon!

Amen!

I think I've made or seconded that request/hope a few times over the years.

Speaking of which, I would welcome observations/comments from any forum readers that have sampled or even fully read all or a large portion of the first volume of the City of God translation in that series, which was release in 2012. Particularly interesting would be any opinions regarding how well the translation stacks up against other/older translations.

I would love it!  But the simple truth is that I cannot possibly afford it right now.  One day, hopefully.  [A]

Glad it is available in Logos.

Liam Walsh said:

Hopefully this set will be split up into indicidual volumes!

Not exactly individual, but a useful division ...

• Fathers of the Church: Fathers of the Ante-Nicene Era (23 vols.)
• Fathers of the Church: Greek Fathers of the Nicene Era (35 vols.)
• Fathers of the Church: Latin Fathers of the Nicene Era (25 vols.)
• Fathers of the Church: St. Augustine (30 vols.)
• Fathers of the Church: Fathers of the Post-Nicene Era (14 vols.)

 Jump in if you haven't already!  [:)]

I wont give that much for it. Was not happy with what i receives in Verbum either, still wont search for catholic terms-hello.

Have to stick with trees on this one.

Fr. Charles R. Matheny said:

still wont search for catholic terms-hello.

Curious, what do you mean?

Randy Lane said:

Ships in two weeks.

Pad your wallets.

Oh my! Thanks for the heads up. Good thing I just paid off more than my last statement balance on my credit card (to cover charges since the statement came out).

Randy Lane said:

Ships in two weeks.

Logos: I'm glad it's ready to ship -- but two weeks' notice for a $1,559.95 resource? Really? I doubt I'm the only one who finds that very inconsiderate to your customers, and I suspect it will also be rather detrimental for your bottom line. I imagine you will get quite a few cancellations and lose quite a few last minute orders. Lots of people can't come up with that kind of money in two weeks, least of all just before the summer vacations. "Sorry kids, I just cancelled our trip to Xyz in order to buy these books instead" doesn't go down very well in most families... And to add to that you also pretty much drowned us in prepubs and new packages during April and May, presumably emptying more than one wallet and bank account.

I'm lucky in that I don't live from month to month, so for me personally it doesn't much matter when something ships or when I'm notified -- as long as I  don't find my account suddenly emptied while I'm traveling. But most people aren't in my position, so the more expensive a prepub is, the longer the advance warning needs to be, even if it's just a 'Q2'. For your own sake as well as ours. Suggestion now that it is what it is: allow people to save this prepub for 6 months. I think you'll sell more that way. I doubt many people will order it for the full price.

Otherwise, my personal concern is trying to guess whether this collection will turn up in 'Verbum 6 Portfolio' for about $250 in a year or two. I'm tired of financing prepubs that others can then buy for a fraction of the price I paid. 

Greg Masone said:

fgh said:

I wonder if anyone has made a chart of what writings are available in which series.

fgh, I started to, but I ran into some difficulty actually comparing the contents of each author in each series. Many times the titles, and even author names, are different for whatever reason, and not having the volumes on hand at home made it difficult to go back and forth with them all to make sure everything is accurate.

Maybe one of these days I'll get the motivation to complete it, as I have access to both sets in the same library, but probably not for awhile!

Did you ever get anywhere with this?

fgh said:

Logos: I'm glad it's ready to ship -- but two weeks' notice for a $1,559.95 resource? Really? I doubt I'm the only one who finds that very inconsiderate to your customers, and I suspect it will also be rather detrimental for your bottom line. I imagine you will get quite a few cancellations and lose quite a few last minute orders. Lots of people can't come up with that kind of money in two weeks, least of all just before the summer vacations. "Sorry kids, I just cancelled our trip to Xyz in order to buy these books instead" doesn't go down very well in most families... And to add to that you also pretty much drowned us in prepubs and new packages during April and May, presumably emptying more than one wallet and bank account.

I'm lucky in that I don't live from month to month, so for me personally it doesn't much matter when something ships or when I'm notified -- as long as I  don't find my account suddenly emptied while I'm traveling. But most people aren't in my position, so the more expensive a prepub is, the longer the advance warning needs to be, even if it's just a 'Q2'. For your own sake as well as ours. Suggestion now that it is what it is: allow people to save this prepub for 6 months. I think you'll sell more that way. I doubt many people will order it for the full price.

I seem to be a rare forumer who would almost never order a pre-pub I didn't have the money to pay for.

fgh said:

Otherwise, my personal concern is trying to guess whether this collection will turn up in 'Verbum 6 Portfolio' for about $250 in a year or two. I'm tired of financing prepubs that others can then buy for a fraction of the price I paid. 

This is where you get mad at me for hoping that it turns up in a Verbum 6 package, right? Sorry!

Rosie Perera said:

You can assume it will take a little while to get to 100% and be produced. But you really shouldn't assume it will take a long time.

Right. My philosophy for Community Pricing books is pretty much the same, with perhaps a bit more liberality in terms of time for things like the Patrologia Latina, which (and because it) probably won't hit 100% any time soon (and which I nonetheless haven't ordered yet).

fgh said:

Rosie Perera said:

this (...) means people are ordering things they know they won't have the money for

doesn't follow from the premises. Someone may have $600 a year for books, preorder for $400 in January, and still not make it, because Logos suddenly ships $200 in February and $200 in March, and they get their money as $50 a month.

Good points.

fgh said:

So I maintain that the more expensive a resource is, the longer advance warning Logos ought to give, even if it's just a 'Q2'.

Agreed. That seems reasonable. I don't remember when they first showed a ship date on this one. Did it just suddenly appear? Or did they have a vague estimate for a while and then an exact date? I haven't been following my pre-pubs closely enough.

fgh said:

Rosie Perera said:

I don't remember when they first showed a ship date on this one.

This Friday, two weeks before shipping. No hint whatsoever before that.

Indeed, that is too short notice for something of this magnitude. I think they should put it off for a while, even if it's ready to go, so that people don't have to cancel it. There are payment plans, but I don't like the concept personally. And I'm not sure if they ever got around to letting people put pre-pubs on payment plans. I know that was an issue in the past and they were going to address it, but am not sure if they have yet.

fgh said:

SineNomine said:

This is where you get mad at me for hoping that it turns up in a Verbum 6 package, right?

Wrong. I'll be happy to see it in a package. I just wish I knew about it now, so that I could cancel without regret and get the same sweet deal.

Lack of cash frequently simplifies my shopping. Silver linings everywhere, I suppose.

fgh said:

I'll never understand why so many people are willing to waste good money on payment plan fees

For me, that would be a last-ditch desperation move.

fgh said:

Most people don't have the funds to keep hundreds of dollars reserved for the Patrologias and the translation of Aquinas commentary on the Sentences, which aren't likely to ship in the next 5 years, if they ever ship at all.

Verbum Capstone 7.

fgh said:

Someone may have $600 a year for books, preorder for $400 in January, and still not make it, because Logos suddenly ships $200 in February and $200 in March, and they get their money as $50 a month.

That could be a problem, yes.

fgh said:

So I maintain that the more expensive a resource is, the longer advance warning Logos ought to give, even if it's just a 'Q2'.

That would be ideal. But we know about Logos's non-promising policy and why it's in place.