Amazon giving huge permanent Kindle discounts on paper books

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/521917#Comment_521917

It's getting harder and harder to hold a self-respecting book-burning these days.

Used to, you could buy the paper version, be really offended, and save it for the annual book-burning.

Now Amazon goes back almost 20 years to retrieve them!

William Gabriel

This is very exciting to me. I love ebooks, and I'm thrilled that I'll be able to get them on the cheap for all the physical books I've bought.

You're right that Logos is at a disadvantage here, but even if they knew what physical books you owned, something tells me that Logos doesn't have nearly as good licensing agreements as Amazon. In other words, I think that even if you could prove to Logos that you owned a physical book*, they probably still couldn't give you the same kind of deal. It would be great if they could charge the "Logos markup" on those titles (though based on the cost of public domain works...I'm not sure that would save us a lot).

I'd be content with a Personal Book Builder that accepted ePub or mobi as inputs alongside docx.

Bill

*They could have a system where you mail in proof of purchase to get registered for the physical-to-digital discount. Would probably be to onerous to implement.

Mark Smith

Amazon is not extending this offer to those who buy their books elsewhere. Why should Logos? At least Amazon gets profit from the print copy they sell, and has a deal with publishers to provide an ecopy at low cost when a print copy is sold. Publishers want to sell print copies so probably are reluctantly gong along. Logos sells no print copies. Nothing here for Logos.

I expect we'll see lots of new-condition 'used' books coming up for sale soon.

Matthew C Jones

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/521920#Comment_521920

I expect we'll see lots of new-condition 'used' books coming up for sale soon.

I think this news bodes well for Logos. It sounds the death knell for paper books. The publishing houses are getting desperate.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/521924#Comment_521924

I expect we'll see lots of new-condition 'used' books coming up for sale soon.

I think this news bodes well for Logos. It sounds the death knell for paper books. The publishing houses are getting desperate.

I just think it's evolving - and printed books will be simply owned by fewer people: they will be more expensive, better quality, and printed (perhaps on demand) only for volumes that justify all that paper (not trashy novels or, say, the latest how to make $1M in ten day type books, or other ephemera, etc.) So in my opinion, this is part of that trend and a very smart move. Right now I can go to a bookstore in Cambridge and have all sorts of books printed on demand on their truly wondrous "bookmaking" machine. Sometimes I purchase one and have it printed just so I can watch! [:P]

A similar example is the reported death knell of "brick and mortar" stores. But the retail business is merely morphing; for example, here in Boston: if you go into a store, more often than not the store is now essentially a showroom. They have NO stock for you to purchase. So you get to try on things, see things in person, etc. And then you order through them or in the comfort of your own home. This keeps their inventory low; and allows you to see things in person; and they integrate their web and street presence; and it also has another added advantage: because things are made to order, they are more easily customized.

My 2 centavos.

~Butters [:)]

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/521917#Comment_521917

This is very exciting to me. I love ebooks, and I'm thrilled that I'll be able to get them on the cheap for all the physical books I've bought.

You're right that Logos is at a disadvantage here, but even if they knew what physical books you owned, something tells me that Logos doesn't have nearly as good licensing agreements as Amazon. In other words, I think that even if you could prove to Logos that you owned a physical book*, they probably still couldn't give you the same kind of deal. It would be great if they could charge the "Logos markup" on those titles (though based on the cost of public domain works...I'm not sure that would save us a lot).

I'd be content with a Personal Book Builder that accepted ePub or mobi as inputs alongside docx.

Bill

*They could have a system where you mail in proof of purchase to get registered for the physical-to-digital discount. Would probably be to onerous to implement.

This is why, in my opinion, Logos should be careful about trying to compete in the general e-reader segment, which it seems they are plunging into.

It seems to me that they ought to focus on original language texts, tools, reference books.

~Butters [:)]

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/521915#Comment_521915

It's getting harder and harder to hold a self-respecting book-burning these days.

Used to, you could buy the paper version, be really offended, and save it for the annual book-burning.

Now Amazon goes back almost 20 years to retrieve them!

I love your posts Denise. You have a lovely (albeit somewhat offbeat [:D]) sense of humor!

~Butters [:)]

Bruce Dunning

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/521955#Comment_521955

I love your posts Denise. You have a lovely (albeit somewhat offbeat ) sense of humor!

How true!

TCBlack

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/521915#Comment_521915

It's getting harder and harder to hold a self-respecting book-burning these days.

Just be careful if you decide to repeat the book burning. Use good ventilation...

Apologies in advance for resorting to XKCD

Rosie Perera

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/522036#Comment_522036

It's getting harder and harder to hold a self-respecting book-burning these days.

Just be careful if you decide to repeat the book burning. Use good ventilation...

Apologies in advance for resorting to XKCD

Hilarious, you two! [:D]

GaoLu

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/522047#Comment_522047

So THAT is why they call it the Kindle Fire.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/522077#Comment_522077

TC ... that was REALLY good!

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/521920#Comment_521920

I expect we'll see lots of new-condition 'used' books coming up for sale soon.

I doubt it. The cost of the paper book is still going to be higher than buying just the e-book, so people who have no use for the paper book will not buy it. Good move on Amazons part. Good move by the publishers.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/521954#Comment_521954

This is why, in my opinion, Logos should be careful about trying to compete in the general e-reader segment, which it seems they are plunging into.

It seems to me that they ought to focus on original language texts, tools, reference books.

Logos MUST compete in the e-book market. Logos right now has only two strengths over their competition. 1) Larger Libraries of theological type books. 2) Cross platform reader software that runs on several different platforms and devices.

Logos cannot abandon e-books and still leverage those strengths.

If they decided today to just focus on "original language texts, tools, reference books", they would be eaten alive by other competitors who are much better at those things for a lot less money.

Logos is very fortunate that (so far) no one at Adobe or other companies involved with e-books and publishing got the bright idea of creating software to index and search all types of e-books if various formats.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/521924#Comment_521924

I think this news bodes well for Logos. It sounds the death knell for paper books. The publishing houses are getting desperate.

I think the real target here is the purchaser that can't decide which format to buy, paper or electronic. I think the publishing houses have realized that they make profit regardless of the format.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/522100#Comment_522100

It seems to me that they ought to focus on original language texts, tools, reference books.

If they decided today to just focus on "original language texts, tools, reference books", they would be eaten alive by other competitors who are much better at those things for a lot less money.

Hmmm.......Really?

Who is providing inter-linked, tagged texts of Dante? Linked to commentaries, language tools, lexicons, etc? Moreover, it's designed to be used by French speakers as well as Germans?

Or of Cervantes?

Or of the entire Greco-Roman Classical Corpus?

Or, Dostoevsky?

Or Shakespeare for non-english readers?

Or the Provençal Troubadours?

Or, Middle English texts, including Chaucer to help those who cannot read Middle English?

Or Goethe?

I could go on and on; the Dante segment alone is enormous; and moreover, many of these segments would probably draw users into additional purchases/usage.

And this way Logos can focus on what it's good at; and, perhaps, do it even better (and cheaper with a larger market to draw from.)

Just my 2 centavos!

~Butters [:)]

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/522124#Comment_522124

If they decided today to just focus on "original language texts, tools, reference books", they would be eaten alive by other competitors who are much

Who is providing inter-linked, tagged texts of Dante? Linked to commentaries, language tools, lexicons, etc? Moreover, it's designed to be used by French speakers as well as Germans?

When you said "original language texts, tools, reference books", I assumed you were talking about Biblical texts and tools.

You may be right that no one else is providing things like "Dante". But there is probably good reason why no one else is providing those things. The market is probably not as large as your post would indicate. Extremely small niche market mostly limited to academia would be my guess. Certainly not where you would want to bet the company. [:)]

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/522132#Comment_522132

If they decided today to just focus on "original language texts, tools, reference books", they would be eaten alive by other competitors who are much

Who is providing inter-linked, tagged texts of Dante? Linked to commentaries, language tools, lexicons, etc? Moreover, it's designed to be used by French speakers as well as Germans?

When you said "original language texts, tools, reference books", I assumed you were talking about Biblical texts and tools.

You may be right that no one else is providing things like "Dante". But there is probably good reason why no one else is providing those things. The market is probably not as large as your post would indicate. Extremely small niche market mostly limited to academia would be my guess. Certainly not where you would want to bet the company.

It seems to me that Dante goes way beyond scholars; it seems like a veritable cottage industry, similar to Shakespeare studies. And Classics seems to me to be an even larger segment.

I have no idea of how large or how these compare. Admittedly I am not basing this on actual analysis and you may be right.

Maybe a wee bit of wishful thinking on my part. LOL.

~Butters [:)]

Don Awalt

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/522132#Comment_522132

deleted by user

Don Awalt

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/522140#Comment_522140

deleted by user

mike

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/522141#Comment_522141

THIS IS HUGE

I know I have purchased many physical books from AMAZON, and have thought of buying the digital from Logos. Now, since Amazon will offer them close to FREE, this will hurt Logos big time. This related for everyone..

COMPETITION IS GOOD, consumers is getting the most benefits.

THANKS AMAZON!

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/522145#Comment_522145

THIS IS HUGE

I know I have purchased many physical books from AMAZON, and have thought of buying the digital from Logos. Now, since Amazon will offer them close to FREE, this will hurt Logos big time. This related for everyone..

.

COMPETITION IS GOOD, consumers is getting the most benefits.

THANKS AMAZON!

Me too. I have purchased dozens of books. I went to Amazon after I saw this thread to get my free/cheap e-books. I guess the thing doesn't start till October.

Where this is really going to make a difference will be for students buying textbooks. (assuming that these are included in the deal, we will see). [Y]

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/521915#Comment_521915

It's getting harder and harder to hold a self-respecting book-burning these days.

In the future, they will have book "smashing". All the e-books will be copied to a hard drive, then smashed with a sledgehammer [:D]

Kendall Sholtess

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/522145#Comment_522145

I'd rather have a Logos digital edition any day than those flimsily made Kindle editions. Granted, I cannot always afford the Logos edition, but it beats anything Amazon or any other company has. I hesitate to call Logos books "e-books." They are much more than that.

There will always be those who prefer drinking tap water rather than spring water, due to it's cost-effectiveness. Logos exists for us users who want or need something better.

NB.Mick

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/522145#Comment_522145

...I have purchased many physical books from AMAZON, and have thought of buying the digital from Logos. Now, since Amazon will offer them close to FREE, this will hurt Logos big time....

Well, it seems that Amazon initially will have some 10k books available - maybe only from one major publisher. I'd be suprised if even ten of these will be available on Logos.com. So the initial impact on Logos may be zero.

On the long run, I personally think this might be a good thing for Logos, since it may help to convince publishers to offer digital editions at all which in turn makes it more likely for the books to end up at Logos or Vyrso.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/522192#Comment_522192

Back in my younger days I used to buy 'used' books a lot, at our used-bookstore next to the university. Months later I got my Paperwhite, and yesterday, didn't get any used books.

I suspect the 'second shoe' (used bookstores) will drop as Amazon aggressively moves toward Kindle-world more and more. I'm not particularly cheap, but I see a Kindle price vs a Logos price, and then remember I can get 2-3 MORE books (!!) using my Kindle. Books that Logos doesn't even offer. I feel so guilty.

mike

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/522192#Comment_522192

...I have purchased many physical books from AMAZON, and have thought of buying the digital from Logos. Now, since Amazon will offer them close to FREE, this will hurt Logos big time....

Well, it seems that Amazon initially will have some 10k books available - maybe only from one major publisher. I'd be suprised if even ten of these will be available on Logos.com. So the initial impact on Logos may be zero.

On the long run, I personally think this might be a good thing for Logos, since it may help to convince publishers to offer digital editions at all which in turn makes it more likely for the books to end up at Logos or Vyrso.

It is really bad for Logos actually..

ex:Students who bought their physical books from Amazon, then later graduated and have no need of the books anymore + their books are beat up already. So they sell their books or give'em up. Now press forward 3-4 years ... some of these students wished that they would've kept some of those books because they understand the value of those books now. So now they have a "want" to buy those old books they like in digital.

Now, they happen to stumble upon Logos website and have a thought to buy those books here... and then guess what .. Amazon offer those books for FREE now because these students purchased the physical books long time ago.

So what I'm trying to say is .. Logos is losing "potential buyers" who were planning to buy those books in Logos.

Now AMAZON just snatched the attention of book lovers back to their website again... They gave us the above and beyond for their old products.

TCBlack

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/522092#Comment_522092

TC ... that was REALLY good!

I'm entitled to one good post a month. I've ruined September already.

See you next month.

TCBlack

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/522179#Comment_522179

I'd rather have a Logos digital edition any day than those flimsily made Kindle editions.

Let us not forget the distinction. With Logos, I own the book. With Kindle, I am permitted to read the book which I do not own.

toughski

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/522286#Comment_522286

Let us not forget the distinction. With Logos, I own the book. With Kindle, I am permitted to read the book which I do not own.

no, no no...

with either company you own a license to read it. there is no legal advantage of Logos/Vyrso over Kindle format.

one may even argue, that due to Amazon's size they are less vulnerable to future (being bought out, format becoming outdated, ability to read books on Windows 45 smartwatch, etc).

JT (alabama24)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/522294#Comment_522294

with either company you own a license to read it.

[Y]

Evan Boardman

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/522296#Comment_522296

This isnt as great as their music offer. You get the mp3s for free. No more money is needed if you bought the cd.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/522495#Comment_522495

I doubt Logos is much surprised by any of this btw; nor is it some major blow to them or anything like that. Zero-sum thinking rarely, if ever, finds justification in reality.

Consumers benefit from this sort of competition.

Authors benefit.

And Logos will, ultimately, benefit. Competition makes companies more agile, more resilient, and more focused.

~Butters [:)]

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/522507#Comment_522507

I was reading an email from Amazon on the new Paperwhite.

Anyway, stupid me, I didn't know I could check out books from our library and have Amazon feed it to my Paperwhite.

Wow!

What's next??

Mark Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/522294#Comment_522294

with either company you own a license to read it. there is no legal advantage of Logos/Vyrso over Kindle format.

I don't know about Amazon, but I do know about Logos. I can sell (transfer) the licenses for all my resources if I am willing to pay Logos a $20 processing fee per transaction (not per resource). Does Amazon do this?

Matthew C Jones

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/522274#Comment_522274

So what I'm trying to say is .. Logos is losing "potential buyers" who were planning to buy those books in Logos.

If all they want is an ebook reader they were not potential Logos customers to begin with. The strength of Logos5 is its search and study tools.

I'm not particularly cheap, but I see a Kindle price vs a Logos price, and then remember I can get 2-3 MORE books (!!) using my Kindle. Books that Logos doesn't even offer. I feel so guilty.

Denise, I know you use your books for more than just reading but remember you are comparing Kindle to Libronix. Logos 5 is so much more than Libronix. You should be fair and compare (old) Libronix to a Franklin KJV handheld Bible. (And Libronix was better.) They were contemporaneous. [;)] Apples to Apples.