Help with a search? WOC and are imperatives; commands.
I'm trying to do a search for "things that Christ commanded" and not having luck formulating it.
I tried using a part of a Morphological bible search and melding it with a "WOC:" but that didn't work...can someone help?
Robert Pavich
For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__
Comments
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Robert Pavich said:
I'm trying to do a search for "things that Christ commanded"
Just quickly as I'm going out - WOC and morphology do not occur together in one (Greek or English) bible. So you are going to do a Greek morphological Search something like:
Jesus @ [=NN??] and [=V??M??]
where Jesus is in the nominative (Subject) case and the other is a verbal imperative. Remember to use Morph search's "Add to..." button to insert the morph codes but type the other text in the right places.
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The best way is a Greek Morphological Search looking for imperatives [=V??M??] in a verse range that covers the WOC! The list I have attached is more compact than the one offered by Chris, which is missing Matt 3:15; 4:4 at least. In Morph Search or Bible Search, select Custom..., then New.., type a Name: and paste the selected verses into Range:.
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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Robert Pavich said:
I'm trying to do a search for "things that Christ commanded" and not having luck formulating it.
I tried using a part of a Morphological bible search and melding it with a "WOC:" but that didn't work...can someone help?
You know, if this were off the top of my head I'd say it isn't possible (the method I mean). However I distinctly remember this exact topic discussed on the Morris Proctor web site about five years ago. The only bibles where WOC applies are red letter English bibles and the only one of those that has any kind of morphological tagging is the KJV. It has the Tense-Voice-Mood tags. I'm sorry, I'm not going to be much help. I don't remember how the query was constructed but I do remember copying it into Libronix and executing it. If you can find out how to search the Tense-Voice-Mood fields in the KJV then I think it would be fairly easy to proceed from there. I looked for it in my help files and couldn't find it but then I searched for "WOC" and couldn't find that either. Some of my help files may be missing.
There was a follow-up article to the one I just mentioned whereby Morris-Proctor said a reader had alerted them to a section in the New Treasury of Scriptural Knowledge that had a more complete list of commands spoken by Jesus than was provided by the search. If you have that resource I know it's in there somewhere because I read it at the time. Couldn't tell you exactly where though. Again, sorry.
Yours in Christ
John
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I saved a WOC commands that I got off I think the blog, but I do not know how I did it. It is in ESV. Here is my list:
Matthew 4:10
Matthew 4:17
Matthew 4:19
Matthew 5:3-12
Matthew 5:4
Matthew 5:6
Matthew 5:10-12
Matthew 5:22
Matthew 5:16
Matthew 5:20
Matthew 5:21
Matthew 5:23-25
Matthew 5:24
Matthew 5:25
Matthew 5:26
Matthew 5:27
Matthew 5:28
Matthew 5:29
Matthew 5:30
Matthew 5:32
Matthew 5:34
Matthew 5:37
Matthew 5:38-42
Matthew 5:39
Matthew 5:40
Matthew 5:41
Matthew 5:42
Matthew 5:44
Matthew 5:48
Matthew 6:1
Matthew 6:3
Matthew 6:5
Matthew 6:6
Matthew 6:7
Matthew 6:8
Matthew 6:9
Matthew 6:11
Matthew 6:13
Matthew 6:16
Matthew 6:17
Matthew 6:18
Matthew 6:19
Matthew 6:20
Matthew 6:22
Matthew 6:24
Matthew 6:25
Matthew 6:30
Matthew 6:31-33
Matthew 6:33
Matthew 6:34
Matthew 7:1-5
Matthew 7:3
Matthew 7:6
Matthew 7:7-11
Matthew 7:12
Matthew 7:13
Matthew 7:14
Matthew 7:15
Matthew 7:21
Matthew 8:4
Matthew 8:22
Matthew 9:9
Matthew 9:12
Matthew 9:13
Matthew 9:30
Matthew 9:38
Matthew 10:5
Matthew 10:6
Matthew 10:8
Matthew 10:10
Matthew 10:11-13
Matthew 10:12
Matthew 10:14
Matthew 10:16
Matthew 10:17
Matthew 10:19-23
Matthew 10:22
Matthew 10:26
Matthew 10:27
Matthew 10:28
Matthew 10:31
Matthew 10:32
Matthew 10:37
Matthew 10:42
Matthew 11:15
Matthew 11:28
Matthew 11:29
Matthew 12:25
Matthew 12:33
Matthew 12:34
Matthew 12:36
Matthew 13:9
Matthew 13:43
Matthew 14:27
Matthew 15:4
Matthew 15:5
Matthew 15:10
Matthew 15:11
Matthew 15:14
Matthew 16:6
Matthew 16:24
Matthew 17:5
Matthew 17:24-27
Matthew 18:3
Matthew 18:6
Matthew 18:8
Matthew 18:9
Matthew 18:10
Matthew 18:15-17
Matthew 18:19
Matthew 18:21
Matthew 18:22
Matthew 18:28-32
Matthew 18:33
Matthew 19:6
Matthew 19:9
Matthew 19:14
Matthew 19:17
Matthew 19:18
Matthew 19:19
Matthew 19:21
Matthew 20:22
Matthew 20:25
Matthew 20:26
Matthew 21:12
Matthew 21:13
Matthew 22:21
Matthew 22:36-40
Matthew 22:37
Matthew 22:39
Matthew 23:3
Matthew 23:5
Matthew 23:8
Matthew 23:9
Matthew 23:23
Matthew 23:26
Matthew 23:34-39
Matthew 24:4
Matthew 24:13
Matthew 24:14
Matthew 24:15
Matthew 24:16
Matthew 24:23-26
Matthew 24:42
Matthew 24:44
Matthew 24:45
Matthew 25:13
Matthew 25:27
Matthew 25:34-36
Matthew 25:35
Matthew 25:36
Matthew 26:10
Matthew 26:52
Matthew 28:19
Matthew 28:20
Mark 1:15
Mark 1:17
Mark 1:44
Mark 4:9
Mark 4:23
Mark 4:24
Mark 5:19
Mark 5:36
Mark 6:11
Mark 6:31
Mark 7:10
Mark 7:11
Mark 8:15
Mark 8:26
Mark 8:34
Mark 9:35
Mark 9:42
Mark 9:43
Mark 9:45-48
Mark 9:50
Mark 10:5
Mark 10:7
Mark 10:8
Mark 10:9
Mark 10:11
Mark 10:12
Mark 10:14
Mark 10:19
Mark 10:21
Mark 10:38
Mark 10:42-45
Mark 11:22
Mark 11:25
Mark 12:17
Mark 12:24
Mark 12:30
Mark 12:31
Mark 12:38
Mark 12:41-44
Mark 13:9
Mark 13:11
Mark 13:13
Mark 13:14
Mark 13:21-23
Mark 13:33-37
Mark 14:6
Mark 14:38
Mark 14:41
Mark 16:15
Luke 6:26
Luke 6:27
Luke 6:29
Luke 6:30
Luke 6:31
Luke 6:32-35
Luke 6:35
Luke 6:36
Luke 6:37
Luke 6:38
Luke 6:42
Luke 6:46
Luke 8:15
Luke 8:18
Luke 8:39
Luke 8:50
Luke 9:5
Luke 9:23
Luke 9:55
Luke 9:56
Luke 9:60
Luke 9:62
Luke 10:2
Luke 10:4
Luke 10:5
Luke 10:7
Luke 10:8
Luke 10:27
Luke 10:33
Luke 10:37
Luke 10:39
Luke 10:42
Luke 11:3
Luke 11:4
Luke 11:9
Luke 11:34
Luke 11:35
Luke 11:41
Luke 12:1
Luke 12:4
Luke 12:5
Luke 12:7
Luke 12:11
Luke 12:15
Luke 12:22-32
Luke 12:24
Luke 12:27-29
Luke 12:29
Luke 12:31
Luke 12:32
Luke 12:33
Luke 12:34
Luke 12:35
Luke 12:36
Luke 12:42
Luke 12:45
Luke 12:46
Luke 12:58
Luke 13:3
Luke 13:5
Luke 13:24
Luke 14:10
Luke 14:12
Luke 14:13
Luke 14:14
Luke 14:23
Luke 14:28
Luke 14:33
Luke 16:9
Luke 16:10
Luke 16:11
Luke 16:12
Luke 16:18
Luke 17:1
Luke 17:2
Luke 17:3
Luke 17:4
Luke 17:10
Luke 17:17
Luke 17:23
Luke 17:32
Luke 18:1
Luke 18:14
Luke 18:16
Luke 18:17
Luke 18:20
Luke 18:22
Luke 18:29
Luke 18:30
Luke 19:13
Luke 19:42
Luke 19:46
Luke 20:25
Luke 20:46
Luke 20:47
Luke 21:8
Luke 21:19
Luke 21:21
Luke 21:28
Luke 21:34
Luke 21:36
Luke 22:19
Luke 22:24-27
Luke 22:26
Luke 22:32
Luke 22:36
Luke 22:40
Luke 23:27
Luke 23:28
Luke 24:17
Luke 24:45
Luke 24:49
John 2:16
John 3:7
John 4:24
John 4:36
John 4:38
John 5:23
John 5:39
John 6:27
John 6:29
John 6:43
John 7:23
John 7:24
John 7:51
John 8:11
John 9:4
John 12:35
John 12:36
John 13:14
John 13:15
John 13:17
John 13:34
John 14:1
John 14:11
John 14:15
John 14:27
John 15:4
John 15:9
John 15:12
John 15:16
John 15:17
John 15:20
John 16:23
John 16:24
John 16:33
John 20:27
John 21:15
John 21:21
Acts 1:4
Acts 1:5
Acts 1:8
Acts 10:42
Acts 18:9
Acts 18:10
Acts 20:35
1 Corinthians 7:10
1 Corinthians 9:14
1 Corinthians 11:23-25
2 Corinthians 1:24
Galatians 6:2
1 Thessalonians 4:2
1 Timothy 4:6
1 Timothy 5:18
1 Timothy 6:3
1 John 3:23
2 John 9
Revelation 2:7
Revelation 2:10
Revelation 2:11
Revelation 2:16
Revelation 2:17
Revelation 3:3
Revelation 3:11
Revelation 3:190 -
John McComb said:
There was a follow-up article to the one I just mentioned whereby Morris-Proctor said a reader had alerted them to a section in the New Treasury of Scriptural Knowledge that had a more complete list of commands spoken by Jesus than was provided by the search. If you have that resource I know it's in there somewhere because I read it at the time. Couldn't tell you exactly where though. Again, sorry.
Oops, wait. It occurred to me that a simple search for "Commands of Jesus" might find it and, what do you know, there it is. Look under 1 John 2:3 in the NTSK.
Yours in Christ
John
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http://blog.logos.com/archives/features/
This link has field searching about 1/4 or so way down and WOC searches but not the one with commands.0 -
http://www.mpseminars.com/index.cfm/pageid/1177/index.html
Here is the link for downloading WOC:commands0 -
Here is an interesting search. WOC:"truly truly" or for you KJV people..WOC:"verily verily"
Notice there is only 25 hits and they are all in the book of John. When doing this, use bible speed search. I have decided I like the bile search version of this better. I use all unlocked bibles, not sure that was the name. WOC:"very truly" return NRSV and TNIV. Interestingly, TNIV returns 26 hits. I believe that 26th hit is a false hit. The NRSV says nevertheless versus very truly in TNIV.0 -
In L3 I can do a search for WordsOfChrist:judge and it works just fine. If I type this search request into the search box in L4, no verses are found. How can I restrict my search in L4 to only those verses that contain the words of Christ?
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I haven't seen a WOC search term...but then again...I haven't seen a lot of them...
Robert Pavich
For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__
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Chris...
here you go...
this is the syntax
words-of-christ
with dashes.
I looked in the ESV info and that's a searchable parameter...
I searched:
words-of-christ:love = @VFAI2S
Words of Christ that is the word love AND it's also a Verb, Active, Imperative, 2nd person, singular
I'll post a vid showing how to get there this weekend...
Robert Pavich
For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__
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Chris,
here you go...
Cut/paste this into a basic search
(([field words-of-christ] *) = <lbs-morph+el ~ V??M????>)
It looks complicated but it's not.
this returned 1800 results in 0.11 seconds...
EDITED TO ADD: HELP DAVE HOOTON!
This won't find what i think it found...it's all imperatives...not just the WOC..
the "words-of-christ:searchword" works...but I can't figure out how to get it to do the "Andequals" the morphology....
Also....so you don't have to type this again...I saved it as a layout...and all you have to do to "re run" this search..is to choose that layout...
Robert Pavich
For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__
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Where in your documentation can I find an explanation for this syntax so that if I wanted to modify this search I would know enough to be able to do that?
Also, if I just wanted to search through the words of Christ for specific words, what is the syntax to do that? In my example above, I was just looking for those verses that included the word "judge". Thanks for your help in advance.
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Robert,
luckily, the syntax for the words of Christ are easy...it's just slightly different than v3...
words-of-christ:judge
PS: you'll notice that the above complicated search for woc and morphology is broken at the moment...I can't figure it out...it returns all imperative verbs....but the simple words-of-christ search works fine.
Robert Pavich
For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__
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Thank you, Sir!
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Robert Pavich said:
EDITED TO ADD: HELP DAVE HOOTON!
This won't find what i think it found...it's all imperatives...not just the WOC..
The construct in [ ] does nothing, unfortunately (you may as well search on <lbs-morph+el ~ V??M????>)
This works:
<lbs-morph+el ~ V??M????> ANDEQUALS words-of-christ:give
whereas
<lbs-morph+el ~ V??M????> ANDEQUALS words-of-christ:*
does not!! There is an obvious problem with the wildcard * that I'll submit as a BUG.
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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On a different register than syntax search considerations, I question whether an exhaustive list of the Lord's commands can be produced in that way. It seems to me that commands can be formulated in other ways than using the imperative.
Using WOC is useful to find the references outside the gospels, but from past experience, one has to define first what is meant by a command. For instance, is there a difference made from an exhortation? Is there anything that the Lord prescribes or call to that is not an imperative even if it is not worded in that way? Is the statement that "unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees... an imperative (lest we fail to enter the Kingdom of heaven)? Defining this further can provide specific guidelines for screening and selecting relevant references, but even with that, I would think that one needs to go through the gospels passage by passage to make such a list.
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Francis said:
On a different register than syntax search considerations, I question whether an exhaustive list of the Lord's commands can be produced in that way.
I doubt that a truly satisfactory list can be produced by any search method because morphologies and syntax are very subjective. They provide a starting list at best.
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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To this we may add instances where the indicative and the imperative have identical forms and the translators or morphology databases writers pick one.
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Dave Hooton said:
I doubt that a truly satisfactory list can be produced by any search method because morphologies and syntax are very subjective.
This statement caught my attention as "odd" - are you speaking of ambiguity? If not, can you explain the manner of their subjectivity? Thanks
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Guys, does anyone know where to find information, tutorial, something in print regarding the searches you are talking about?
For example, @V??M I think I know what these characters mean but I don't know the syntax for such things.
Also, is there a list or instructions on the protocol for such symbols as @ for Morph and g: for greek, etc?
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Bruce,
When you are doing a morph search....they "pop up" in a menu...just put in the @ and you'll see...
Robert Pavich
For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__
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MJ. Smith said:Dave Hooton said:
I doubt that a truly satisfactory list can be produced by any search method because morphologies and syntax are very subjective.
This statement caught my attention as "odd" - are you speaking of ambiguity? If not, can you explain the manner of their subjectivity? Thanks
If I can formulate a similar query (eg. Genitive Absolute) to run on two different syntax databases or with two different morphologies I will have different results from each solution. Even running the identical query with different software (L3 and L4) can produce different results, because there has been some subtle updates (probably fixes) to the morphology or syntax databases.
At the grammatical level there are the ambiguities that Francis has mentioned, but there is also the adoption of different grammatical schemes (parts-of-speech) and root words (lemmas). The known/accepted ambiguities may be resolved by preferring a single solution or by listing all the alternatives in the respective morphological databases! Lemma differences (if detected!) may be simple enough to make a change in the query.
Different results may then have to be accepted as part of the solution or rejected because of one's seminary training! Enough?
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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Dave Hooton said:
Different results may then have to be accepted as part of the solution or rejected because of one's seminary training! Enough?
Ah, yes, I understand and agree. I would have described it in terms of alternative theories of grammar and/or syntax but I know exactly what you're talking about and find it very frustrating - especially in Hebrew that is being shoved into an ill-fitting Indo-European/Greek model. Thanks for taking the time to reply.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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